Orthos testing results

perdomot

Golden Member
Dec 7, 2004
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Got an E4400 runing at 3Ghz at default voltage and Coretemp says idle temps are 46 degrees. When I tested with Orthos for 30 minutes(cpu test) the temps went to 72 degrees. I have a Thermalright XP-90 with a 92mm fan on there and am wondering if this is OK considering that newer HSF like the Thermalright 120 are getting a load temp in the low 30s according to Anandtech's own reviews:
http://www.anandtech.com/casec...howdoc.aspx?i=3068&p=6

Is the XP-90 too old for this or maybe its not making proper contact? Advice is appreciated. Thanks.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
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I have a lot of work to do today, but dropped in here to check "progress" and post a query of my more knowledgeable brethern per the desired "SMART" temperatures of hard disks.

The XP-90 was a great cooler for a number of reasons. Per your Allendale, I see you have it overclocked a full 50%. I'm mostly guessing that the TDP spec for that processor at stock settings was only 65W, just as it is for my E6600. I'll have to check. Other Core-2-QUAD processors, like my Q6600, are rated at 105W -- a bit toastier.

However, since you OC'd it from 2 to 3Ghz, you must also have bumped up the VCORE. The question then is "how much?" And an increase of 50% in the overall speed would be another linear boost in TDP, while the voltage-delta would increase thermal power proportional to the voltage-delta-squared.

Before you go out and buy another cooler -- and I can recommend a couple -- see what you can do to improve case airflow and improve the efficiency of the XP-90. The idle temperatures still seem too high. You can use the idle temperature alone to gauge progress in improving airflow and case temperatures.

The XP-90 has a thermal resistance somewhere in the range of 0.13 to 0.14 C/W. You can do better than that. For instance, the now-dated XP-90C or Cu has a thermal resistance of only 0.11 C/W, which I believe marginally trumps the original Ultra-120 cooler. Since the Ultra-120-Extreme probably can show a thermal resistance of only 0.095 C/W with the proper airflow, and since the Ultima 90 is only slightly less effective than the U-120-Ex, I'd guesstimate that the Ultima 90 probably fits in the range of 0.10 to 0.11 C/W.

Also, I think you were referring to the Ultra-120-Extreme's IDLE temperatures, as opposed to LOAD values. With a properly ventilated case, you could expect a moderately over-clocked E6600 or even Q6600 to show idle temperatures between 22C and 30C depending on room ambient. The peak TCASE temperature in the Anandtech review for the ThermalRight coolers falls between around 47C (120-Extreme) and the mid-50's.

Those of us who're overclocking the Q6600 processor are showing TJunction (core) temperatures between the high 50's and the low 70's, depending on the overclock setting, the efficiency of airflow, the room ambient and other factors. I consider the low 70's to be unnecessarily warm. @ 78F room-ambient, my Q6600 2.4 @ 3.2 Ghz peaks at 65C for the hottest core. But since these processors (probably) all have similar thermal limits before they throttle, I'd say 70C -- while it may be safe -- is still too close for my comfort.

I'm making an educated guess (based on limited information) that if you're reporting core/TJunction temperatures, the XP-90 is adequate for stock and mildly over-clocked settings, but if you want to do better, there are more recent models of coolers by ThermalRight and others which can improve. And I don't think your overclock setting is "mild." Remember also -- if there is a matter of how your case is set up, or whether you want to use the same fan -- the XP-90C is the same shape, size and basic design -- with a much better thermal resistance, although heavier for it's being copper. And to achieve that thermal resistance, i think you'll need to run your 92mm fan up to around 4,000 rpms.

I can suggest some tedious mods that offer a payoff for any of these coolers, such that you would construct a duct for the cooler so that its exhaust is ported directly onto the motherboard components and then to the case exhaust fan, and you'd want to minimally purchase a $5 piece of foam-art-board, the right glue, an Xacto knife and other few incidentals.

But if you were willing to take the time and trouble to do that, I'd think you'd be inclined to also get a more effective cooler. Otherwise, I'd suggest backing off your OC setting so you can lower the VCORE enough to reduce the CPU load temperature.

Incidentally, these thermal resistance measures I've mentioned seem like small differences between small numbers, but consider:

delta-TR = delta-C / W

If W is your measured thermal wattage at load, it could be a number in the range from 120 to 150W given your OC setting -- another ballpark guess. Suppose it's 100W. Then the drop in temperatures you'd get from replacing the XP-90 with even the XP-90Cu would be:

(0.135 - 0.11)C/W = delta-C / 100W

and delta-C = .025 x 100 or nearly 3C degrees. If the thermal wattage is higher than 100, then delta-C would be proportionately greater. If you've increased the thermal wattage of your E4400 to 150W, then the temperature improvement for getting an XP-90C to replace the XP-90 is closer to 4C degrees. And if you can improve on the cooler's performance -- effectively reducing thermal-resistance again by improved airflow at a desirable noise-level, it would be even better. And it's possible that the 50% OC has actually boosted your thermal wattage higher than I'm showing here by way of example.

You can add another few degrees to the temperature improvement by ducting, and maybe 2C degrees to that by using a diamond-based thermal paste if you're not already doing so. In combination, a more recent and improved cooler-design, the choice of TIM and ducting for better airflow could gain you in the neighborhood of a 10C improvement.
 

perdomot

Golden Member
Dec 7, 2004
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Hello Bonzaiduck and thanks for the reply. First of all, I have that OC at default voltage. I could probably go higher, maybe 3.2Ghz, but then I would have to raise the vcore considerably and its just not worth it to me. Secondly, my case is well ventilated with 2 120mm case fans and cable are routed to be out of the way. The page I posted the link to has both the idle(27) and the load(33) for the Thermalright 120 and a load which is half of mine really is what gets my attention. I feel, and Anand's articles concur, that the "tower" design is superior to the "blow-down", primarily because hot air is directed towards the rear exhaust fan rather than back onto the cpu/mobo. BTW, what heatsink do you use? For the thermal paste I use Artic Silver 5 and use a thin layer only. Essentially, I think I have all the bases covered leaving only the heatsink and fan as the only possible weak points. Since the XP-90 is 3 years old, there are no databases I can find for use with current C2D CPUs which is unfortunate but considering the tremendous difference reported in various reviews, I can only conclude that I need to replace the heatsink. Thanks again for you opinion and knowledge.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
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I'm using the ThermalRight Ultra 120 Extreme. I paid $30 extra for SVC to "custom-lap" the base -- saving me the labor and carpal tunnel.

On the matter of "design," it depends on what else you're willing to do. With the fan-draft directed at the motherboard, you can duct the board to receive the CPU fan-exhaust such that this exhaust air is then drawn out by an exhaust fan covered by the motherboard duct. Otherwise, the tower coolers resolve the problem more directly.

However, if one were to worry about chipsets, Mosfets and memory generating thermal wattage -- and for that matter, the VGA card -- the motherboard cooling remains an issue. The tower coolers -- while exhausting the CPU heat directly, don't address these motherboard components.

If I recall, the XP-90 aluminum had a thermal resistance of around 0.13 or more. [Is that what I already said?] If you're looking at the Ultima 90 or the Ultra-120-Extreme, you should get some real improvements over those temperatures. Even a Zalman CNPS-9700 would offer considerable improvement, but not as much. And -- as I said -- the copper XP-90C would be great, if you're willing to duct motherboard air to an exhaust fan. To cover all the bases and satisfy everyone, a Sunbeam Tuniq tower would also give good results. I'm just not putting my U-120-Extreme up at EBay so I can buy the Tuniq.

Arctic Silver 5 is fine, but I was able to prove to myself (maybe even to others) that a 90% micronized diamond paste will gain another 2 or 3C improvement in temperatures. Even if it only gives you enough for a GPU and CPU in single application, the IC Diamond product seems worth the $5 to me.
 

perdomot

Golden Member
Dec 7, 2004
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I decided to get the Artic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro for my cooling needs. I read several reviews with similar set ups as mine and the temps were almost as cool as the big names. Newegg is selling it for $20 so I just couldn't pass on that deal. Thanks again for the feedback.