Oregon fines man $500 for using math to challenge red-light cameras

[dmcowen674]

4-26-2017

Oregon fines man $500 for using math to challenge red-light cameras


4-26-2017

After his wife received a ticket for tripping a red-light camera, Oregon resident Mats Järlström openly criticized the Orwellian devices and the mathematical formulas these cameras use. It seems Big Brother doesn't take too kindly to dissenters, as according to the Institute for Justice Järlström was fined $500 for violating a law that prohibits mathematical criticism without a license.

The Institute for Justice says the actual fine was for Järlström calling himself a "professional engineer." The thing is, Järlström does have a degree in electrical engineering, though he doesn't carry a state license. In Oregon's eyes, that doesn't make him a real engineer. Järlström's initial issue was that the green-yellow-red progression was too short for lights with a left or right turn. Using his engineering expertise, he began to criticize the math equation that governs this timing, hence the fine.

 

[dmcowen674]

Apparently in Oregon you have to have a license for free speech.

 

[Bitek]

State using red light cameras for revenue generators? Shocking! I thought they were carefully tuned to maximize public safety..

Horrible. May they rot.

 

[brycejones]

Fix your thread title.

The fine is bs as is your click bait title.

 

[evident]

why can't jurisdictions that use red light cameras just keep them fair? they would catch violators as well. I know that most places in philly that have red light cameras have greatly reduced yellow light times.

 

[boomerang]

why can't jurisdictions that use red light cameras just keep them fair? they would catch violators as well. I know that most places in philly that have red light cameras have greatly reduced yellow light times.

Probably because they just made a sizeable investment and are looking for a quick return. No profit until the system is paid for. They're little more than a revenue stream.

I'm not condoning the practice.

 

[boomerang]

Fix your thread title.

The fine is bs as is your click bait title.

His title is the title of the article linked. You're off base.

 

[brycejones]

His title is the title of the article linked. You're off base.

It's a click bait title. Take some responsibility for improving on click bait.

 

[boomerang]

It's a click bait title. Take some responsibility for improving on click bait.

Learn to ignore that which upsets you and is of little consequences and you may be happier for it.

 

[brycejones]

Learn to ignore that which upsets you and is of little consequences and you may be happier for it.

You are the last person to be giving that advice. But then again you have never cared much for accuracy in the threads you start either. So maybe just F off because you are part of the problem as well.

 

[boomerang]

You are the last person to be giving that advice. But then again you have never cared much for accuracy in the threads you start either. So maybe just F off because you are part of the problem as well.

You find it frustrating when you're not in total control don't you?

Have you reported the thread yet? Reported me? That might give you a sense of being in control of the situation to a degree that will satisfy you. Give it a whirl.

 

[brycejones]

You find it frustrating when you're not in total control don't you?

Have you reported the thread yet? Reported me? That might give you a sense of being in control of the situation to a degree that will satisfy you. Give it a whirl.

Quick quiz. Why was the guy actually fined? I assume you read the article so this should be easy for you.

 

[Vic]

I live near Beaverton and strongly support Mr. Jarlstrom for catching the city and their rigged red light cameras. However, the thread title is wrong. He was fined for representing himself as an engineer without a license to do so.

 

[sactoking]

The article is a bit garbled but it seems like he was fined for representing himself as a licensed engineer when he is not. However, it seems like the municipality has a law that says only licensed engineers may dispute things on mathematical grounds. So by using math to argue against the citation he, knowingly or not, triggered the licensed engineer provision. I'd say that his use of math was the proximate cause of the fine thus the title is not misleading.

 

[brycejones]

The article is a bit garbled but it seems like he was fined for representing himself as a licensed engineer when he is not. However, it seems like the municipality has a law that says only licensed engineers may dispute things on mathematical grounds. So by using math to argue against the citation he, knowingly or not, triggered the licensed engineer provision. I'd say that his use of math was the proximate cause of the fine thus the title is not misleading.

I believe it was because he referred to himself as a professional engineer which means licensed by the state not because he used math that was what I took out of the article.

 

[Genx87]

Eh what? The only way to fight a broken law with math is to get a license from the state? Seems rather oppressive if you ask me.

 

[Jaskalas]

You need a license to speak to the Government in any words other than "yes Dominus".

 

[momeNt]

Professional Engineer - Is a state licensed term. The fine would be similar if the guy tried to represent somebody in court without passing the state bar.

Elements of buildings /infrastructure need to be stamped by a licensed professional engineer in the state in which they are built. For instance, if he's an electrical engineer, he cannot stamp an electrical motor for a pump station, or a transformer for a building or something along those lines.

http://www.oregon.gov/Osbeels/pages/index.aspx

 

[Vic]

Eh what? The only way to fight a broken law with math is to get a license from the state? Seems rather oppressive if you ask me.

No, that's not what happened. And what bothers me about this angle is that the city of Beaverton truly is corrupt with regards to their traffic cams. This isn't the first time they've been caught rigging the yellow light timing on their red light cameras. And a few years ago, they were parking their photo radar vans in front of schools and giving out tickets for speeding in a school zone on days when school was out (holidays, weekends, and during the summer). The city is notoriously crooked.

 

[zinfamous]

His title is the title of the article linked. You're off base.

And yet this is still not a defense for spreading FUD.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Was he fined $500 for using math or fined $500 for being an asshole?

 

[dainthomas]

No, that's not what happened. And what bothers me about this angle is that the city of Beaverton truly is corrupt with regards to their traffic cams. This isn't the first time they've been caught rigging the yellow light timing on their red light cameras. And a few years ago, they were parking their photo radar vans in front of schools and giving out tickets for speeding in a school zone on days when school was out (holidays, weekends, and during the summer). The city is notoriously crooked.

Fun fact: I actually got a ticket from one of Beaverton's radar vans thrown out. Actually, the guy in front of me in court did. Dude had charts and everything. The last thing he asked the cop was what the sign in front of the van said (it has to be something very specific according to the statute, which he had in his hand). When the cop couldn't remember exactly, the judge threw his ticket out. I was the next one up, so I was just like "what he said". I assume everyone else in the (full) courtroom did too.

 

[sactoking]

I'll say again that the article is garbled but it does state that the law he violated "prohibits mathematical criticism without a license." If that's correct then he didn't get fined for saying he was a state-licensed professional engineer when he wasn't, he got fined for criticizing someone by using math without being a state-licensed professional engineer.

 

[Vic]

Fun fact: I actually got a ticket from one of Beaverton's radar vans thrown out. Actually, the guy in front of me in court did. Dude had charts and everything. The last thing he asked the cop was what the sign in front of the van said (it has to be something very specific according to the statute, which he had in his hand). When the cop couldn't remember exactly, the judge threw his ticket out. I was the next one up, so I was just like "what he said". I assume everyone else in the (full) courtroom did too.

True story: I got a speeding in a school zone ticket from one of their photo radar vans back in July 06. Right in front of McKay school on Scholls Ferry rd. School was out that day, and I was doing the regular posted speed limit of 35. I took a copy of the school calendar and the state statute (that school zones only apply on school days) to the judge, and he refused to dismiss the ticket. Instead, he invited me to appeal to a higher court. Over a $195 ticket.

 

[hal2kilo]

So math works different when you have magic paper?

Reminds me of the idiot QA guy that shut down an operation because a 6ft tape measure was called out to be used, but they had a 12ft tape measure instead. I guess the size of inches changes depending of the size of the tape measure.