Ordered an upgrade

[Apex]

I did enjoy the statement about the non-cats:
"The product description above is for entertainment purposes only. This product does not perform the exhaust cleansing function of a catalytic converter in any way. Use of this product on or off the road violates countless laws and may prevent your car from passing emissions. It is unlawful to install this product in any vehicle in the United States, ever. If you wish to return this product at any time in the future, a full refund will be issued. This product should only be purchased by lawyers with pre-1975 vehicles or purpose built off-road vehicles that did not come with catalytic converters from the factory who know for a fact that it is legal to use in their vehicle in their jurisdiction for aesthetic reasons only. If you are not one of those lawyers, this product should only be hung on your wall to express your rebellious nature, never installed in a vehicle. This product may cause cancer."

Do not taunt happy fun ball.

 

[hanoverphist]

LOL! Awesome. Now I want to buy one just to hang it on my wall.

are you a lawyer with a pre-1975 vehicle? :biggrin:


i know a few people that would enjoy this piece. it would bolt on and keep the space available for the real cat when they need to emission it, and allow them to run without it easily for track fun.

 

[Sunny129]

I kind of want to wait until I get an LS6 instake and a cam kit before I get a tune...just don't want to pay all that money twice. Will need to get it before April or so though..that is when inspection is due, so need to get cats tuned out.

+1...wait until you add intake and cam to the mix - then get your tune...


...oh yeah, we'll need sound clips as soon as you get the piping fabbed and everything installed

 

[Tristicus]

+1...wait until you add intake and cam to the mix - then get your tune...


...oh yeah, we'll need sound clips as soon as you get the piping fabbed and everything installed

Will do! I'll get a before and after (before will be with stock headers + catback).

I have to call them up and get a quote...kind of want to install headers myself to save a few bucks, but I'd have to drive it an hour with open headers to the shop. Maybe not the best idea.

 

[yottabit]

Really, the power hit from cat's on a mostly stock LS1 is going to be pretty small (I think less than 10hp, probably more like 3-5), and the same is true when comparing no-cat to hi-flow-cat for any non-turbocharged application, and there are plenty of other places to gain power on a (sounds like) stock LS1

I would really recommend to just do the environment a favor and get some hi-flow cat's in place, you won't notice the performance difference and it will probably sound a lot less raspy

Only reason IMO not to run a high flow cat is if you're going to be running leaded race gas, which doesn't sound like it's in your plans. I used to hog out cat's back when I was 16 and streetracing (with a turbocharged car) and since then I've realized it's stupid. I don't care what you think about the environment and global warming, there is no hearsay to catalytic converters- they do their job and massively reduce noxious gas emissions. Cat's have a stigma because of how the addition of them seemed to cause massive power loss back in the 70s, but the power loss was because of the switch from leaded to unleaded (lower octane) fuel necessitated by the addition of catalytic converters, not the catalytic converters themselves

I would say that it's "your right" to remove them if you want to, except that it's not, and it's against federal law

If you are really concerned about eeking out every last horsepower than your choice in the catback will make much more of a difference. Honestly, true duals from what I understand aren't that effective on F-bodies, and there's a reason most aftermarket exhaust systems merge at some point. I'm not sure what the system you have planned in mind looks like (it sounds like you're having the exhaust shop figure that out?) but you may want to look at proven combinations like the SLP Loudmouth exhaust, etc...

Catco is a manufacturer of good quality hi flow CHEAP aftermarket cats (universal fit)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Catc...Accessories&hash=item1e65232261#ht_723wt_1165

 

[Tristicus]

Really, the power hit from cat's on a mostly stock LS1 is going to be pretty small (I think less than 10hp, probably more like 3-5), and the same is true when comparing no-cat to hi-flow-cat for any non-turbocharged application, and there are plenty of other places to gain power on a (sounds like) stock LS1

Power isn't my main concern.

I would really recommend to just do the environment a favor and get some hi-flow cat's in place, you won't notice the performance difference and it will probably sound a lot less raspy

I'll deal with rasp if it is to show. No cats sounds better, and rasp tends to be more of an issue with a Y pipe.

Only reason IMO not to run a high flow cat is if you're going to be running leaded race gas, which doesn't sound like it's in your plans. I used to hog out cat's back when I was 16 and streetracing (with a turbocharged car) and since then I've realized it's stupid. I don't care what you think about the environment and global warming, there is no hearsay to catalytic converters- they do their job and massively reduce noxious gas emissions. Cat's have a stigma because of how the addition of them seemed to cause massive power loss back in the 70s, but the power loss was because of the switch from leaded to unleaded (lower octane) fuel necessitated by the addition of catalytic converters, not the catalytic converters themselves.

Okay.

I would say that it's "your right" to remove them if you want to, except that it's not, and it's against federal law

Nanny state BS.

If you are really concerned about eeking out every last horsepower than your choice in the catback will make much more of a difference. Honestly, true duals from what I understand aren't that effective on F-bodies, and there's a reason most aftermarket exhaust systems merge at some point. I'm not sure what the system you have planned in mind looks like (it sounds like you're having the exhaust shop figure that out?) but you may want to look at proven combinations like the SLP Loudmouth exhaust, etc...

True duals provide gains over a Y and a catback, but once again I don't care much for gains with the exhaust (besides LTs obviously). I want the sound of true duals. This is why I want an H pipe over an X pipe as well. I know what I have in mind, I've done my research. If you don't like it...oh well?
SLP is sort of like Monster Cables. Lol.

 

[yottabit]

True duals provide gains over a Y and a catback, but once again I don't care much for gains with the exhaust (besides LTs obviously). I want the sound of true duals. This is why I want an H pipe over an X pipe as well. I know what I have in mind, I've done my research. If you don't like it...oh well?
SLP is sort of like Monster Cables. Lol.

I really doubt with a 3" dual straight back mandrel bent with no cats and long tube headers, only 5.7 liters of N/A displacement, your exhaust system isn't going to be tuned for power anywhere in the right range

Everything you're talking about screams uber high rpm range, and you're talking about a stock LS1

I would not be surprised if you lose a good deal of power in your typical RPM driving range

You've made it clear that's not your main concern, I just don't understand why people feel the need to get rid of their cats... at least in your case I can understand it for the sound, I'm just tired of my friends putting in test pipes so they can gain sooo much horsepower on their Civic Si's..., sorry, it's a bit of a pet peeve of mine

 

[Howard]

Nanny state BS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

 

[Tristicus]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/eminem/justdontgiveafuck.html

 

[exdeath]

No cats is raspier because of unburned fuel "sizzling" throughout the exhaust system. Cats burn the fuel so you don't get sizzle and popping, especially when lifting from WOT and coasting so you get a cleaner exhaust sound. High flow cats that are 50-100% more cross section than the exhaust tubing has zero impact on performance on a properly tuned engine.

 

[exdeath]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

Because EVERYBODY runs catless right?

A few enthusiasts with catless muscle cars = .1% of the driving public.

The other 99.9% that contribute the most to pollution are the millions of commuters in stock emissions legal Civics and Camrys that aren't going to have cats removed.

Basically it's not an issue, nor does tragedy of the commons apply because the number of people doing it is insignificant. For every "gas guzzling Viper" on the road there are a 100,000 econoboxes sitting on the LA freeways generating 99,000 times the smog even with cats. Also most who have a modified car with no cats have a primary commuter that is a stock fuel efficient emissions legal 4 door beater that they drive 5-6 days of the week.

As for "it's illegal" ? Well booze was illegal, and it was once illegal to be black on the bus in the US... so that tells you how much validity "the law" has at times. Civil disobedience is a valid form of public checks and balances against illegal laws that affect individual liberty when majority tyrannizes the minority and there is no recourse in the courts or legislation. Especially if it's done in a sneaky matter such that nobody ever notices or cares, eg fake cats and computer tuning to pass emissions. The number of people who wish to run without cats is insignificant, and thus not being "allowed" to run catless runs against the spirit of the law to reduce national pollution, as a few individuals are incapable of undermining society as a whole where the goal is reducing pollution at the large scale and where 99.9% of cars, the ones being driven 20,000 miles a year, will still have cats.

Personally I don't care, as I said above, high flow cats = zero restriction or performance penalty. It's really about sound more than performance. When I was running full Bassani exhaust with the 5 piece x pipe with removable cats, there was no difference on the dyno with the high flow cat tubes in or out, just the sound was different.

 

[NutBucket]

I drove a catless car everyday for over 5 years

 

[Hellotalkie]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

^^agreed

 

[alphatarget1]

Either you can use MIL eliminators which send a false signal back to the ECU so it shows ready in conjunction with a tune, or you can simply have the rear O2s disabled. You are allowed like 2 monitors reporting not ready or something like that and still able to pass emissions.

OBD II emissions takes like 5 seconds, they plug it in, read the screen, good to go, and the car never changes engine speeds or runs funny, so they aren't doing a full OBD II test that would catch the MIL eliminators not responding when the mixture is too rich for the cats anyway.

A full OBD II sweep from a diagnostic scanner like my Solus takes like 5-10 mins and you have to turn the wheel lock to lock when prompted and all kinds of stuff. This would show the fake rear O2s not changing at all when the test fattens the mixture to test cat efficiency and throw rear O2 codes if they actually ran that test, but they dont, because it takes too long

Do you know if this OBD II sweep is what they do in California?

 

[NutBucket]

No sweep that I know of. They're basically checking for the ready monitors. Not sure you're allowed to have any "not ready".

 

[alkemyst]

Let us know the shop so we can let the EPA know the service they are doing for us.

You realize race cats would be legal and more often than not do not cost power.

 

[CrackRabbit]

Do you know if this OBD II sweep is what they do in California?

California does a full tailpipe test. They are serious about their emissions stuff out here.

 

[alkemyst]

California does a full tailpipe test. They are serious about their emissions stuff out here.

Don't they hook up to the OBD port?

 

[CrackRabbit]

Don't they hook up to the OBD port?

Yes, but they run a tailpipe test as well.
Compare the numbers the OBD system is giving them with what the tailpipe readings are.

 

[Tristicus]

Let us know the shop so we can let the EPA know the service they are doing for us.

You realize race cats would be legal and more often than not do not cost power.

Let me know when you stop lying over the internet...lol wait it's Alky boy we're talking about here.

 

[alkemyst]

Let me know when you stop lying over the internet...lol wait it's Alky boy we're talking about here.

What do you mean I lie over the internet? I have given tons of info here both good and bad on my life.

There are a lot of tests on race cats/hi flow cats vs none...on most street cars they don't really lose any significant power, make your car smell better and quieter to boot.

On a TRACK ONLY car turning 10secs or better, no cat does help with dialing in for tenths.


You are buying on a budget.

 

[Tristicus]

What do you mean I lie over the internet? I have given tons of info here both good and bad on my life.

There are a lot of tests on race cats/hi flow cats vs none...on most street cars they don't really lose any significant power, make your car smell better and quieter to boot.

On a TRACK ONLY car turning 10secs or better, no cat does help with dialing in for tenths.


You are buying on a budget.

I'm getting stainless steel mandrel bent dual exhaust custom fabbed but I'm on a budget...lol. I'm not you Alky, I don't care who knows how much money I have and I'm sure not gonna lie to impress random online people.

That, and try reading the thread before you state something else stupid or that has been stated.

 

[alkemyst]

I'm getting stainless steel mandrel bent dual exhaust custom fabbed but I'm on a budget...lol. I'm not you Alky, I don't care who knows how much money I have and I'm sure not gonna lie to impress random online people.

That, and try reading the thread before you state something else stupid or that has been stated.

but you so far have just bought stainless steel budget parts.

Get the real cats, think of those behind you.

My single exhaust was $795 on sale. It's all stainless, mandrel bent and just bolts on. I picked up a hi flow cat for like $100-200, had them weld the proper flanges on it and then added a $200 header and then had them weld the same flanges to it and my exhaust.

We haven't seen your exhaust yet though....just cheap purchases.

Don't talk back to me please if you don't understand the argument. If you are running hollow cats on the STREET you are ILLEGAL regardless of your local inspection. DONT do it.

 

[Tristicus]

but you so far have just bought stainless steel budget parts.

Get the real cats, think of those behind you.

My single exhaust was $795 on sale. It's all stainless, mandrel bent and just bolts on. I picked up a hi flow cat for like $100-200, had them weld the proper flanges on it and then added a $200 header and then had them weld the same flanges to it and my exhaust.

We haven't seen your exhaust yet though....just cheap purchases.

Don't talk back to me please if you don't understand the argument. If you are running hollow cats on the STREET you are ILLEGAL regardless of your local inspection. DONT do it.

My Borla catback cost that, lol. I'm on a budget? Spew more bullshit buddy, I hope you ride up behind me in your little rice mobile.

 

[Tristicus]

Headers came in while I was in Vegas...got a good amount of pics at the Barrett Jackson Car Auction.