Ordered a new Sony VPL-HW45ES projector, despite the fact I said no more projectors.

[Eug]

Some of you may know that as a projector owner, I'm not completely enthralled with projectors, due to their numerous negatives. For example: Problematic picture in ambient light, iris and bulb issues, projector noise, black levels in non-DLP models, rainbows and headaches in DLP models, mounting restrictions in DLP, etc.

So, for the past several months I've been looking at TV options, now that we are in the era of 4K and HDR. Unfortunately, what I've been seeing is that if I want to get a highish end 4K HDR TV in the 75"+ size, I'm probably looking at AT LEAST CAD$5000. And for some brands, it's more like CAD$8000. Given that I only use my home theatre room occasionally, I just couldn't justify the expense. I considered a 70" mid-range TV, but decided that I didn't want to spend that kind of money to get a smaller mid-range TV or even more money to get an 80" mid-range TV. So I just said screw it, I'll get a 1080p projector for the time being.

The one I chose is the new Sony VPL-HW45ES, which is the successor to the popular VPL-HW40ES that came out 2 years ago. As far as I can tell, the 45ES is basically the higher end 65ES ($$$$) but without the iris and without a network jack. The 65ES came out relatively recently, and the 45ES isn't out yet in the US of A, but those of us in Canada can now order them in Canada as the 40ES has since been discontinued here (and in Europe and Asia). I suspect the reason the 40ES is still the current model in the US is because there isn't actually any stock anywhere of the 45ES. Stock is supposed to show up mid-June, but I put my order in anyway. It turns out the pricing of the 45ES is actually slightly less than the 40ES in the stores I checked so it couldn't hurt to pre-order.

http://presscentre.sony.eu/pressrel...g-superior-full-hd-3d-picture-quality-1361865

Still 1080p, and thus no HDR support, but whatever. At least it's an improvement over my Panasonic PT-AX200U. I'll get 4K/HDR next time around, whether it's in a TV or a projector, after the HDR format war is over. Maybe OLED will be affordable by then. Plusses are that it is a light cannon so it won't be quite as bad as some in some ambient light, with likely OK (but not stellar) black levels in light controlled rooms, no flickering iris, no rainbows or headaches, very low fan noise, and wide mounting options. And of course price.

Note that I have a dedicated home theatre room, which is why I'm OK with going with a projector. If it was my living room, I would most definitely not choose a projector. Ironically, my living room only has just a 43" TV (plasma). For my home theatre, I'll be throwing a 90" image.

So why I am not going to continue using my current projector? Lamp is already at the end of its rated life, and a new one costs over $300. The projector is also 720p, and is too loud for my liking. Black levels are mediocre. Otherwise it works fine though.

 

[LikeLinus]

If you have a dedicated home theater, why don't you focus on your ambient light issues? Yu can fix those light and black level issues if you deal with the real problem.

 

[Eug]

If you have a dedicated home theater, why don't you focus on your ambient light issues? Yu can fix those light and black level issues if you deal with the real problem.

Ambient light issues include not being able to turn on a light even when it's pitch black outside.

 

[LikeLinus]

Ambient light issues include not being able to turn on a light even when it's pitch black outside.

You're watching a movie, why do you need light? The purpose of a dedicated home theater is for it to be dark while you watch movies. Projectors have a specific purpose in this instance, so you negate its benefits when you dont use it appropriately.

 

[Eug]

You're watching a movie, why do you need light? The purpose of a dedicated home theater is for it to be dark while you watch movies. Projectors have a specific purpose in this instance, so you negate its benefits when you dont use it appropriately.

I guess you never watch TV then? Or have guests over that don't like stumbling around in the dark?

I assume you don't ever play video games either?

 

[LikeLinus]

I guess you never watch TV then? Or have guests over that don't like stumbling around in the dark?

I assume you don't ever play video games either?

Dedicated home theater. No, we watch TV in the living room. If we do watch TV on the big screen, we do so in the dark or knowing that there is a compromise in watching with light. Not sure why guest would be stumbling around in the dark? You can use floor lighting or just pause movie if someone needs to get up. My lights are run by my remote. No stumbling around.

What I do is a bit different. I run a plasma behind the screen. Its a motorized screen that drops down in front of speakers and plasma.

 

[Eug]

Dedicated home theater. No, we watch TV in the living room. If we do watch TV on the big screen, we do so in the dark or knowing that there is a compromise in watching with light. Not sure why guest would be stumbling around in the dark? You can use floor lighting or just pause movie if someone needs to get up. My lights are run by my remote. No stumbling around.

What I do is a bit different. I run a plasma behind the screen. Its a motorized screen that drops down in front of speakers and plasma.

So you actually have a TV in the same room as your projector to address the problems that I have identified with using projectors, where TVs have an advantage. I'm surprised you don't see the irony in your posts.

And no, I'm not going to buy yet another display to put in this room. That defeats the point of saving money by buying a projector (knowing its limitations). If I wanted to spend extra money, I might have just have bought a 75" TV instead and been done with it.

 

[Kaido]

Ordered a new Sony VPL-HW45ES projector, despite the fact I said no more projectors.

e-highfive :thumbsup:

 

[soulcougher73]

So you actually have a TV in the same room as your projector to address the problems that I have identified with using projectors, where TVs have an advantage. I'm surprised you don't see the irony in your posts.

And no, I'm not going to buy yet another display to put in this room. That defeats the point of saving money by buying a projector (knowing its limitations). If I wanted to spend extra money, I might have just have bought a 75" TV instead and been done with it.

He has a point though. You said you have a dedicated home theater room. Which means you watch with the lights out and in a dark environment. You are not using it as such apparently. For the times you have guests and its daytime and want to watch TV why not use your living/family room instead with a normal TV?

 

[Eug]

He has a point though. You said you have a dedicated home theater room. Which means you watch with the lights out and in a dark environment. You are not using it as such apparently. For the times you have guests and its daytime and want to watch TV why not use your living/family room instead with a normal TV?

Are you really trying to tell me which room I'm allowed to entertain guests or watch TV or play video games in, in my own house?

 

[soulcougher73]

Are you really trying to tell me which room I'm allowed to entertain guests or watch TV or play video games in, in my own house?

Yes if you are going to bitch about your dedicated home theater room being too dark (which it is supposed to be). Some people need help in life

 

[Eug]

Yes if you are going to bitch about your dedicated home theater room being too dark (which it is supposed to be). Some people need help in life

I'm not bitching about it being too dark. I have it dark when I watch movies. However, I also happen to use it for other purposes like any reasonable homeowner. For those purposes, a projector is not always ideal. But I know that already and am willing to deal with it. However some people here like yourself seem seem to think it's wrong to acknowledge that projectors have real disadvantages in real world home usage.

What's even more ironic about all of this is the projector makers themselves build these things with features to try to partially address some of the disadvantages, because they realize people actually want to use their products how they please. For example low lag high lumen output mode for gaming with some ambient light. Yet some posters here seem to think that is not a valid use for a projector in a home theatre room.

 

[purbeast0]

my HT is basically pitch black at night. when watching a movie, the projector puts out so much light you could read a book while non-dark scenes are on. we get up and get food/drinks/go to the bathroom without turning the lights on and can EASILY see where we're walking with the brightness of the screen, including going up stairs that are around the corner from the screen. maybe your previous projector was REALLY weak light wise but as someone who has had a HT with a good projector for 3 years, i've never had the problems you are discussing. and i host a lot of sporting events here too, and friends have never had an issue.

i also game on it and don't have the problem either while gaming.

 

[Eug]

My previous projector is rated at 2000 lumens. So no, not weak at all. As mentioned, it is a Panasonic PT-AX200U, which at the time was very popular with gamers precisely because of its high light output and low lag mode.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Panasonic-PT-AX200U.htm

Mind you right now the light output is lower since the lamp is old. I'd say it's putting out about the amount of light on full mode that is a bit stronger than what a new lamp puts out in Eco mode. So still decent by home theatre standards but not as strong as it could be.

And yes these are well recognized limitations of projectors that you don't get with say LCD TVs. But the main problem with such TVs is cost and image size. As mentioned, to get even a 75" TV of good quality with all the fixin's would cost me CAD$5000-$8000, which is why I'm willing to accept the limitations of projection.

The VPL-HW45ES ranges from about CAD$2300-$2800, so 1/2 to 1/3 the price of a good 4K HDR 75" TV. It is an 1800 lumen model with SXRD panels.

 

[soulcougher73]

I'm not bitching about it being too dark. I have it dark when I watch movies. However, I also happen to use it for other purposes like any reasonable homeowner. For those purposes, a projector is not always ideal. But I know that already and am willing to deal with it. However some people here like yourself seem seem to think it's wrong to acknowledge that projectors have real disadvantages in real world home usage.

What's even more ironic about all of this is the projector makers themselves build these things with features to try to partially address some of the disadvantages, because they realize people actually want to use their products how they please. For example low lag high lumen output mode for gaming with some ambient light. Yet some posters here seem to think that is not a valid use for a projector in a home theatre room.

I understand they have weaknesses that is why people build dedicated home theater rooms like yourself to eliminate/offset these weaknesses. Id have more sympathy if you were ignorant on projectors (which you clearly are not) and tried to use one in a normal living room and then bitching the picture is washed out etc. But that isnt the case. It sounds as if you built a room made for projector use to play to their strengths, but are still upset it wont do it all in every condition.

 

[Chapbass]

How about grabbing a black diamond screen and a solid light cannon projector? Not the cheapest, but even with just a standard screen, my panny pt-ar100u does a decent job even with the lights on. sure, the black levels aren't the best, but thats what the black diamond screens are designed for.

 

[purbeast0]

How about grabbing a black diamond screen and a solid light cannon projector? Not the cheapest, but even with just a standard screen, my panny pt-ar100u does a decent job even with the lights on. sure, the black levels aren't the best, but thats what the black diamond screens are designed for.

i saw a black diamond screen in action in a store. they are pretty damn impressive.

 

[Eug]

I understand they have weaknesses that is why people build dedicated home theater rooms like yourself to eliminate/offset these weaknesses. Id have more sympathy if you were ignorant on projectors (which you clearly are not) and tried to use one in a normal living room and then bitching the picture is washed out etc. But that isnt the case. It sounds as if you built a room made for projector use to play to their strengths, but are still upset it wont do it all in every condition.

I'm not upset. I'm just totally realistic. I made the choice to do this for the sake of cost. I just think people who either try to claim that projectors don't suffer these issues or that people who say people who have these problems are doing it wrong need to take off their rose coloured glasses.

How about grabbing a black diamond screen and a solid light cannon projector? Not the cheapest, but even with just a standard screen, my panny pt-ar100u does a decent job even with the lights on. sure, the black levels aren't the best, but thats what the black diamond screens are designed for.

Cost is sky high. More than my projector in fact.

I must admit I've considered those types of screens in the past though.

But each time I've considered spending the extra money, I figured I'd be better off just putting the money towards a new TV instead. ie. Cost of dark screen + cost of projector = cost of decent 75" TV.

 

[Chapbass]

I'm not upset. I'm just totally realistic. I made the choice to do this for the sake of cost. I just think people who either try to claim that projectors don't suffer these issues or that people who say people who have these problems are doing it wrong need to take off their rose coloured glasses.


Cost is sky high. More than my projector in fact.

I must admit I've considered those types of screens in the past though.

But each time I've considered spending the extra money, I figured I'd be better off just putting the money towards a new TV instead. ie. Cost of dark screen + cost of projector = cost of decent 75" TV.

True on cost, but itll also last you a hell of a lot longer than a TV will. You could go 10-15 years at least before needing a new screen, and thats assuming some newfangled screen technology comes out that is a "must have".

 

[Anubis]

i saw a black diamond screen in action in a store. they are pretty damn impressive.

they are but they cost more then your entire HT

 

[funboy6942]

I have Acer pj and I can watch it with the lights on np, granted the pic is a little washed out, but totally watchable, but with the lights out, and no lights on, um, the pj does put out light, and I can still see in my room and no one has ever stumbled in the room in the dark

I been doing a PJ for over 10 years now, and I will never go back and I use it for everything from games, to internet, and movies, and its in a dedicated part of my room, and pushes out 2400 lumens, but that is never right, more like 1000-1200. I can never understand what the big fuss everyone makes about them, and I use a cheap Elite screen I picked up for under $100.

 

[Chapbass]

they are but they cost more then your entire HT

Not when the most direct comparison is something like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Sharp-LC-90LE657U-90-Inch-Aquos-1080p/dp/B00DBYE1ZM/ref=dp_ob_title_ce

If you're taking away one of the projectors biggest weaknesses - black level / ambient light rejection - then really were talking about basically a 90+ inch tv. Even this 90 inch sharp isn't close to my 120" projector, and in my old place that was a 135". Sure, I can't afford a black diamond screen, but i can't afford a 90"+ TV either.

And once again, the screen will last a hell of a lot longer than the TV, with easy upgrades to 4k and whatever lies beyond.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

My projector on a wall painted with this looks good to my eyes:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/BEHR-Pre...erior-Exterior-Paint-Sample-770E-2U/202182565
Hard to argue against a projector if you've got a decent setting for one.

 

[LikeLinus]

So you actually have a TV in the same room as your projector to address the problems that I have identified with using projectors, where TVs have an advantage. I'm surprised you don't see the irony in your posts.

And no, I'm not going to buy yet another display to put in this room. That defeats the point of saving money by buying a projector (knowing its limitations). If I wanted to spend extra money, I might have just have bought a 75" TV instead and been done with it.

No, there is no irony, I do not have a dedicated home theater room. I actually said "we do so in the dark or knowing that there is a compromise in watching with light."

I know there are compromises with projectors, if you are not willing to use it in a dedicated theater setup w/ proper light control. You can't blame the projector if you are not using in the correct environment or understanding how to setup your room to use it correctly.

It's like buying a Ferrari and then complaining that you can't drive it wide open throttle in the middle of NYC. Duh. Sort of like I don't expect my infinity to go off-roading like a jeep!

I do use both in the same room due to two windows being in the room and it's open to another area. But, that said, when used at night with all the lights off, its outstanding and one of the primary reasons we simply never go to the movies anymore. That's why I have my lighting setup through my remote and a TV behind the screen.

Remember this, those "limitations" you mention, are not really limitations if you use the projector how it is intended. The issue is you want it to be a one trick pony and solve all your problems. It's a tool for the job in a dedicated theater with proper light control. You turn off all the lights, sit down and watch a movie. Pause and turn on lights if you have to move around. That's how we do it.

 

[giantpandaman2]

Cost of dark screen + cost of projector = cost of decent 75" TV.

Who buys a projector for only 75"? That would be quite rare. I could buy quite a few projectors, screens, hell whole HT Rooms for the cost of a 120" TV.