Optical out quality variable on sound cards?

Smackey

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So, I just switched over to running an optical out through my HTPC to my reciever. I had just a basic DVD player set up before, and the bass that came out of my system was incredible(it would give my Klipsch Cornwalls all they could handle).

I bought a cheapo Sardent 7.1 card because all I wanted it for was to pass the optical out through to the reciever(don't do games).

However, when I played my usual test scenes(LOTR endings usually). There was a noticable absence of the really low rumbly(technically speaking) sounds coming out. The surround and clarity all sounded great, but I want the whole room to shake again.

My question is do I need a better sound card to transfer a better optical out signal? Are there differences in quality of optical out? I was thinking about buying the CHAINTECH AV-710 to see if it made a difference.
 

YOyoYOhowsDAjello

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If it's just passing a DD / DTS stream to the receiver, I wouldn't think there would be a difference.
Are you still getting a DD / DTS signal or is it on a Stereo / Prologic II / Neo:6 mode?

If there is something wrong though, a Chaintech should clear it up and pass everything correctly.
 

poisonthewell

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Smackey - if you end up deciding on getting an av-710 I have one for sale. Wanted to PM you but you don't have them enabled.
 

Auric

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Yeah, just make sure it is passing the unmolested DD/DTS signal via SPDIF and particularly not just PCM or mixing the LFE with the front stereo channels.

Never heard of Sardent. Some mainboards have coaxial and/or optical output brackets available.
 

Smackey

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Yeah I am getting DD/DTS to the recierver, and i made sure LFE was off as well. I think I am just gonna buy the AV-710. And my mainboard is pretty old so i would doubt it has a bracket available.
 

Matthias99

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However, when I played my usual test scenes(LOTR endings usually). There was a noticable absence of the really low rumbly(technically speaking) sounds coming out. The surround and clarity all sounded great, but I want the whole room to shake again.

It sounds like for some reason you're not getting the subwoofer channel (the ".1" part of the "5.1").

My question is do I need a better sound card to transfer a better optical out signal? Are there differences in quality of optical out? I was thinking about buying the CHAINTECH AV-710 to see if it made a difference.

There are no differences in 'quality' per se (it's just passing the digital DD/DTS stream, in theory), but some cards may just flat-out not work properly.
 

YOyoYOhowsDAjello

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Originally posted by: Smackey
Yeah I am getting DD/DTS to the recierver, and i made sure LFE was off as well. I think I am just gonna buy the AV-710. And my mainboard is pretty old so i would doubt it has a bracket available.

What LFE are you talking about?

Try turning it on wherever you're seeing it, as that sounds like the part you're missing.
 

Smackey

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It sounds like for some reason you're not getting the subwoofer channel (the ".1" part of the "5.1").

Well I shouldn't be getting this because the Cornwalls are for the base, I don't use a subwoofer. Perhaps the problem inlies that it is giving the subwoofer output, and not transferring over the deep bass to the Klipsch's.

What LFE are you talking about?
I have it turned of in MCE/DVD sound options. I can't find it in the sound card setup, but the only option i have is run through optical, everything else is off.
 

Matthias99

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Originally posted by: Smackey
It sounds like for some reason you're not getting the subwoofer channel (the ".1" part of the "5.1").

Well I shouldn't be getting this because the Cornwalls are for the base, I don't use a subwoofer. Perhaps the problem inlies that it is giving the subwoofer output, and not transferring over the deep bass to the Klipsch's.

Um... how are you not using a subwoofer with a 5.1 or 7.1 system? Or do you have your receiver redirecting the subwoofer channel somewhere? If you don't, yes, you'll be missing the whole bottom end of the signal.
 

YOyoYOhowsDAjello

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Originally posted by: Smackey
It sounds like for some reason you're not getting the subwoofer channel (the ".1" part of the "5.1").

Well I shouldn't be getting this because the Cornwalls are for the base, I don't use a subwoofer. Perhaps the problem inlies that it is giving the subwoofer output, and not transferring over the deep bass to the Klipsch's.

What LFE are you talking about?
I have it turned of in MCE/DVD sound options. I can't find it in the sound card setup, but the only option i have is run through optical, everything else is off.

Try turning it back on.

Did you have LFE turned off in your DVD player settings before?
 

seanp789

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1) ****** sound cards still sound ****** even with optical. The exception is SPDIF bybass which should send the encoded audio track straight to your receiver. You need to have this set on both your sound drivers and on your software dvd player which may decoded the signal for you.

2) Like YOyoYOhowsDAjello said, if you are missing a sub there is a whole LFE (bass) channel of audio special effects you are not hearing. Some receiver have the option to mix the sub channel into the front towers. which would be a semi fix. I would really recommend a sub for movie watching though. Most passive towers cant go as deep as a decent dedicated sub. They can still shake stuff either way but u will be missing out without the sub
 

Smackey

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Um... how are you not using a subwoofer with a 5.1 or 7.1 system? Or do you have your receiver redirecting the subwoofer channel somewhere? If you don't, yes, you'll be missing the whole bottom end of the signal.

The reciever automatically redirected the subwoofer channel to the fronts before. Didn't change any settings since then. I am not using a subwoofer because Cornwalls are sound better than any subwoofer I have heard.

Try turning it back on.

I tried turning it on and off in Media center, but it didn't make a bit of difference. I will play with the receiver when I get home and see if I can do any adjustments on that.

Thanks for the help

*Note, haha, i spelled Bass, base before. That is awesome.
 

YOyoYOhowsDAjello

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Originally posted by: Smackey
Um... how are you not using a subwoofer with a 5.1 or 7.1 system? Or do you have your receiver redirecting the subwoofer channel somewhere? If you don't, yes, you'll be missing the whole bottom end of the signal.

The reciever automatically redirected the subwoofer channel to the fronts before. Didn't change any settings since then. I am not using a subwoofer because Cornwalls are sound better than any subwoofer I have heard.

Try turning it back on.

I tried turning it on and off in Media center, but it didn't make a bit of difference. I will play with the receiver when I get home and see if I can do any adjustments on that.

Thanks for the help

*Note, haha, i spelled Bass, base before. That is awesome.

I've seen "base" as the spelling of bass so many times I just ignore it now ;)

You might want to try a different media player.

VLC media player is free and it's easy to make sure you're sending the SPDIF signal with the audio menu feature.
 

Smackey

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dvd player which may decoded the signal for you.

Hrmm, I haven't changed any settings in Power DVD specifically, but I will check that when I get home as well.

Most passive towers cant go as deep as a decent dedicated sub. They can still shake stuff either way but u will be missing out without the sub

Klipsch Cornwalls aren't really most passive towers... I might be wrong, but I thought subwoofers are made so people don't actually need Giant speakers, and you actually lose quality with a sub+front setup.

The exception is SPDIF bybass
That is what I am using, so if this is really true, then a new soundcard would be useless and I just need to figure out where I am missing a setting adjustement.
 

Smackey

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VLC media player is free and it's easy to make sure you're sending the SPDIF signal with the audio menu feature. VLC media player is free and it's easy to make sure you're sending the SPDIF signal with the audio menu feature.

I have VLC, it has had lots of freezing problems on this PC.... However, if i get that fixed can I set that up to be the media player used by WME? If not, that would be anit-productive towards my HTPC. But if you can, that would be great, as I am not a big fan of Media player.
 

YOyoYOhowsDAjello

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For movies if you really want deep bass, a sub is the way to go.

I bet those Cornwalls have great bass for music, but movies now are coming out with VERY deep bass tracks.

If your speakers are rolling off in the 30-40hz range, you're missing a lot of the low end.

Some waterfall charts of some parts of LOTR and the frequencies we're talking about

Fellowship
http://www.svsound.com/pix/colorbassyscenes/colorlotrfotrringdrops.JPG
http://www.svsound.com/pix/colorbassyscenes/colorlotrfotrsexplodes.JPG
http://www.svsound.com/pix/colorbassyscenes/colorlotrfotrskelinwell.JPG

Two Towers
http://www.svsound.com/pix/colorbassyscenes/colorlotrttbandgfall.JPG
http://www.svsound.com/pix/colorbassyscenes/colorlotrttblackriders.JPG
http://www.svsound.com/pix/colorbassyscenes/colorlotrttbslainbyg.JPG
http://www.svsound.com/pix/colorbassyscenes/colorlotrttocharge.JPG <-- :shocked:

Return
http://www.svsound.com/pix/colorbassyscenes/colorrotkgreenlight21.jpg
http://www.svsound.com/pix/colorbassyscenes/colorrotkmountdoom25.jpg <-- :shocked:
http://www.svsound.com/pix/colorbassyscenes/colorrotkolephantcharge24.jpg
http://www.svsound.com/pix/colorbassyscenes/colorrotkshelob23.jpg
http://www.svsound.com/pix/colorbassyscenes/colorrotkundeadking22.jpg

I really have no idea what kind of response you're getting below 30hz with those cornwalls, but if your output is significanly lower at those frequencies then you're missing a lot.

EDIT: If you aren't getting your room shaking with this, you're missing a lot.
https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmclaughlin/web/Random/12-24.wav
This is a 12hz to 24hz sweep I got from MS Dawn. Careful not to damage anything with this. These low frequencies can physically damage speakers and subs if you're pushing them too hard.
 

YOyoYOhowsDAjello

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Originally posted by: Smackey
VLC media player is free and it's easy to make sure you're sending the SPDIF signal with the audio menu feature. VLC media player is free and it's easy to make sure you're sending the SPDIF signal with the audio menu feature.

I have VLC, it has had lots of freezing problems on this PC.... However, if i get that fixed can I set that up to be the media player used by WME? If not, that would be anit-productive towards my HTPC. But if you can, that would be great, as I am not a big fan of Media player.

I'm not sure about WME issues.

You might want to try it out though just to see if that's the issue so you can eliminate receiver / soundcard settings as the issue.
 

Smackey

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I will play with that .Wav and all the settings I can find again when I get home. As well as try VLC to see if there is any difference.

I didn't realize how low frequency the bass is on movies these days. But I do know that I have never heard LOTR sound better with any subwoofer based theater setup.(granted these are my human psuedo audiophile ears). But perhaps I will have to get some more hardware to get everything I can out of the cornwalls.
 

YOyoYOhowsDAjello

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What kind of subs have you heard before?

You can check out some more movies here http://www.svsound.com/questions-faqs.cfm#moviedemos

Low frequency stuff in movies is really on the rise now that a lot of people have the kind of equipment to actually play it.
My gf and I are usually disappointed with the sound now if we go to local theaters. Most of the places around here are more budgety theaters though, so the sound is kind of lacking vs the nicer ones.
 

Smackey

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I think i might start usuing that list as how to pick future moveis too watch.

I have heard quite a few different ones, don't remember exaclty which ones but I could ask some of my friends who have them. I know they aren't the 6,000 dollar subs, but i would call them medium-high end, if that means anything.

My gf and I are usually disappointed
Ever since I got the theater set up I haven't enjoyed the local theaters. At 8 bucks a movie its just not worth it. Specially because they don't have a mini fridge a few feet away. I am now waiting for most movies to come out on DVD, because I just like the home set up so much more. We have a few "nice" theaters here. They have good sound, but you just don't feel the rumble the same as I get at home. And I think when a war is going on, the ground should shake. =)
 

YOyoYOhowsDAjello

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Originally posted by: Smackey
I think i might start usuing that list as how to pick future moveis too watch.

I have heard quite a few different ones, don't remember exaclty which ones but I could ask some of my friends who have them. I know they aren't the 6,000 dollar subs, but i would call them medium-high end, if that means anything.

My gf and I are usually disappointed
Ever since I got the theater set up I haven't enjoyed the local theaters. At 8 bucks a movie its just not worth it. Specially because they don't have a mini fridge a few feet away. I am now waiting for most movies to come out on DVD, because I just like the home set up so much more. We have a few "nice" theaters here. They have good sound, but you just don't feel the rumble the same as I get at home. And I think when a war is going on, the ground should shake. =)

Seems like you would really like a serious sub to compliment those cornwalls then ;)

Is there a matching center that goes with those?

I'm a bit below "medium-high end" with my SVS 20-39 PC+ but it's plenty for my area.

How big of a room are you trying to fill?

This might be more fitting as something to check out for "medium-high end"
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_4/subwoofers-12-2001.html
as it has some Klipsch subs mixed in.

 

Smackey

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Yeah, I can't really afford a subwoofer that I think would add too much to them...

There isn't a matching center, 5.1 and 7.1 wasn't so much around when these speakers came out. They sold them from 1959-1985, they are part collectible part really good speakers. My dad has some, and I fell in love with them so when I wanted a theater they were the only thing i even considered(probably a bit biased). The room is 20x24, so it isn't a huge area. Plus it is the 2nd floor, so it is much easier to shake the ground.

They are part horn speakers though, which I like, but I have heard some people don't.
 

YOyoYOhowsDAjello

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So you're just running a stereo pair for your speakers? No center / surrounds?

I figured there wasn't going to be a matching center, but I thouth you might have picked up some more Klipsch to complete a surround sound system.

How high are your ceilings? 20x24 is a pretty big room to try to fill with bass.
Are there any openings to different rooms too?

Sorry I kind of turned this into a subwoofer thread :eek:
 

Smackey

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I run a klipsch quintet center and two JBL surrounds, forgot the name, bought them years ago.

There aren't really any openings, it is a flat/apartment type thing in a hanger. It has a bathroom and closet built in, but thats about it.

Thats alright, I need to do everything i can to get the bass i want ... =)

I went ahead and tried everything mentioned on here. Playing stuff through just Power DVD, Media center, VLC and still no dice. Changed all the settings around. The reciever is getting the proper signal and redirecting the suboutputs to the fronts.. so i guess I will try the AV-710 and see if that fixes it.
 

YOyoYOhowsDAjello

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Does your receiver have a 5.1 input on it? You might want to see if connecting up that way would do it for you.

Did you try the 12-24 sweep?