Opteron

[sinthon]

What do you guys think of the new 64bit Opterons?

 

[acejj26]

wow

 

[jonnyGURU]

I like. You like?

 

[randumb]

I think the adoption of 64-bit will still be a little slow, but the Opterons do have great performance. BTW, the Opterons aren't that new. They came out a while ago.

 

[jarich]

Really fast... especially for the money. They address more memory than anything else in their market (that is to say for less than 5x the price)... and they are backwards compatible with 32 bit.

I like them! Course, I'm on one now. dual box w/2 gigs of ram for $1,700... who thought we'd ever see that?

 

[jarich]

 

[kylef]

The biggest problem with them right now is that there is no 64-bit version of Windows to make use of them yet. SuSe released a 64-bit linux distribution for AMD64, but Windows won't be ready until Windows Server 2003 Sp1 comes out...

The hardest part about the 64-bit operating system is getting device drivers built and working native 64-bit mode, then implementing a "thunking" layer to allow 32-bit programs to access devices using the 64-bit drivers. I'd be surprised if all devices you can use in 32-bit Linux work correctly in the new 64-bit linux on AMD64...

[edit]:
I should have added, however, that they DO work quite well in "legacy mode" == 32-bit mode. So your regular operating systems will work just fine.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: kylef
The biggest problem with them right now is that there is no 64-bit version of Windows to make use of them yet. SuSe released a 64-bit linux distribution for AMD64, but Windows won't be ready until Windows Server 2003 Sp1 comes out...

The hardest part about the 64-bit operating system is getting device drivers built and working native 64-bit mode, then implementing a "thunking" layer to allow 32-bit programs to access devices using the 64-bit drivers. I'd be surprised if all devices you can use in 32-bit Linux work correctly in the new 64-bit linux on AMD64...

[edit]:
I should have added, however, that they DO work quite well in "legacy mode" == 32-bit mode. So your regular operating systems will work just fine.

What about a 64 bit version of Windows XP? I thought I read that was scheduled for release about 3 months after the Athlon-64... which would put it at the end of this year, beginning of next year.

 

[AnImuS]

i was hoping for faster memory then 2700. Its outdated the least they could of gone was 3200...
and 1mb cache is always nice. One question how come amd didnt introduce some type of SMT?
i believe i read IBM would be using SMT in their next PPC...

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: AnImuS
i was hoping for faster memory then 2700. Its outdated the least they could of gone was 3200...

I imagine they will. JEDEC just took forever.
...would YOU tell people they needed to get memory that there wasn't yet and industry standard for, and put it in their SERVERS? I think not.

and 1mb cache is always nice. One question how come amd didnt introduce some type of SMT?
i believe i read IBM would be using SMT in their next PPC...

...they didn't want to? We'll see...

 

[BoomAM]

Originally posted by: jarich
Really fast... especially for the money. They address more memory than anything else in their market (that is to say for less than 5x the price)... and they are backwards compatible with 32 bit.

I like them! Course, I'm on one now. dual box w/2 gigs of ram for $1,700... who thought we'd ever see that?

You have dual operons? I didnt think that they were available for buying yet. Are you sure you have one?

 

[digitalsm]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: kylef
The biggest problem with them right now is that there is no 64-bit version of Windows to make use of them yet. SuSe released a 64-bit linux distribution for AMD64, but Windows won't be ready until Windows Server 2003 Sp1 comes out...

The hardest part about the 64-bit operating system is getting device drivers built and working native 64-bit mode, then implementing a "thunking" layer to allow 32-bit programs to access devices using the 64-bit drivers. I'd be surprised if all devices you can use in 32-bit Linux work correctly in the new 64-bit linux on AMD64...

[edit]:
I should have added, however, that they DO work quite well in "legacy mode" == 32-bit mode. So your regular operating systems will work just fine.

What about a 64 bit version of Windows XP? I thought I read that was scheduled for release about 3 months after the Athlon-64... which would put it at the end of this year, beginning of next year.

The Windows XP 64bit edition for AMD64/Opteron, will be out as you said sometime this year or early next. Though I am wondering when there will be wide spread 64bit applications.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: BoomAM

Originally posted by: jarich
Really fast... especially for the money. They address more memory than anything else in their market (that is to say for less than 5x the price)... and they are backwards compatible with 32 bit.

I like them! Course, I'm on one now. dual box w/2 gigs of ram for $1,700... who thought we'd ever see that?

You have dual operons? I didnt think that they were available for buying yet. Are you sure you have one?

Dude. They were available two months ago. You might be thinking of the Athlon 64.

 

[BoomAM]

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU

Originally posted by: BoomAM

Originally posted by: jarich
Really fast... especially for the money. They address more memory than anything else in their market (that is to say for less than 5x the price)... and they are backwards compatible with 32 bit.

I like them! Course, I'm on one now. dual box w/2 gigs of ram for $1,700... who thought we'd ever see that?

You have dual operons? I didnt think that they were available for buying yet. Are you sure you have one?

Dude. They were available two months ago. You might be thinking of the Athlon 64.

I must be.
The althon64 is the one released in september, isnt it?

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: digitalsm

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: kylef
The biggest problem with them right now is that there is no 64-bit version of Windows to make use of them yet. SuSe released a 64-bit linux distribution for AMD64, but Windows won't be ready until Windows Server 2003 Sp1 comes out...

The hardest part about the 64-bit operating system is getting device drivers built and working native 64-bit mode, then implementing a "thunking" layer to allow 32-bit programs to access devices using the 64-bit drivers. I'd be surprised if all devices you can use in 32-bit Linux work correctly in the new 64-bit linux on AMD64...

[edit]:
I should have added, however, that they DO work quite well in "legacy mode" == 32-bit mode. So your regular operating systems will work just fine.

What about a 64 bit version of Windows XP? I thought I read that was scheduled for release about 3 months after the Athlon-64... which would put it at the end of this year, beginning of next year.

The Windows XP 64bit edition for AMD64/Opteron, will be out as you said sometime this year or early next. Though I am wondering when there will be wide spread 64bit applications.

Hard to say... however, shouldn't even 32 bit applications get a boost from a 64 bit OS?

 

[BoomAM]

I would have thought so, cos if an Apps 32bit, but your using a 64bit processor and OS, then it should be able to Multitask better, and prehaps the OS can make the App use the other 32bit as well, so all 64bit is being used.
Not quite sure though. Im not well up on 64bit processing at the moment.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: digitalsm

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: kylef
The biggest problem with them right now is that there is no 64-bit version of Windows to make use of them yet. SuSe released a 64-bit linux distribution for AMD64, but Windows won't be ready until Windows Server 2003 Sp1 comes out...

The hardest part about the 64-bit operating system is getting device drivers built and working native 64-bit mode, then implementing a "thunking" layer to allow 32-bit programs to access devices using the 64-bit drivers. I'd be surprised if all devices you can use in 32-bit Linux work correctly in the new 64-bit linux on AMD64...

[edit]:
I should have added, however, that they DO work quite well in "legacy mode" == 32-bit mode. So your regular operating systems will work just fine.

What about a 64 bit version of Windows XP? I thought I read that was scheduled for release about 3 months after the Athlon-64... which would put it at the end of this year, beginning of next year.

The Windows XP 64bit edition for AMD64/Opteron, will be out as you said sometime this year or early next. Though I am wondering when there will be wide spread 64bit applications.

Hard to say... however, shouldn't even 32 bit applications get a boost from a 64 bit OS?

Doubtful, and if so, it seems like it would be eaten up in the 32/64 conversion with various drivers (You'd still need an emulation layer of some kind)...however, being able to use old software with little or no noticeable drop in performance (Even on new machines, old apps run SLOW on WoW) would be a plus.

 

[Jeff7181]

Doubtful, and if so, it seems like it would be eaten up in the 32/64 conversion with various drivers (You'd still need an emulation layer of some kind)...however, being able to use old software with little or no noticeable drop in performance (Even on new machines, old apps run SLOW on WoW) would be a plus.

I don't know the specifics of 64 vs.32 bit very well... but is it possible that the OS could make better use of the hardware? Or use less system resources? That would in turn effect applications especially on systems with less RAM.

 

[mooglekit]

Opteron is GOING to be great, but for the time being there just isn't much practical purpose for it. I realize that until the 64 bit chip had been implemented there would be few retail programs for such a platform, and that this is a big-time transition step, but for that very reason it makes the Opterons less than necessary right now. Sure, in a few years these will be fabulous, but what else will be out there by then? For now, I've got to say it's exciting, but I wouldn't toss my money on it.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: mooglekit
Opteron is GOING to be great, but for the time being there just isn't much practical purpose for it. I realize that until the 64 bit chip had been implemented there would be few retail programs for such a platform, and that this is a big-time transition step, but for that very reason it makes the Opterons less than necessary right now. Sure, in a few years these will be fabulous, but what else will be out there by then? For now, I've got to say it's exciting, but I wouldn't toss my money on it.

Agreed. The upshot for now is that it makes one hellacious server....something for when big sites need upgrades (gee, do we know any site that might fall into that category in a year or two?) for their web, forum, etc. servers, it's cool.
Getting the Athlon64 out will help, too.
"You mean there's a multi-processor version of this thing? What's our hardware budget?"
...IBM is about to (or has, can't remember) release a dual Opteron server.
...If HP takes it up for their low-end, that'll help.
...If Dell even THINKS about offering one, that will get their foot through the door and keep it open.

 

[Macro2]

When the Pentium Pro came out there wasn't much 32 bit software for it either. On 16 bit apps the Pentium classic would even beat it. People laughed because it ran at lower clock speeds than the Pentium.

Does this sound familiar?

The rest of the story....
Pentium Pro --> Pentium II ---> Pentium III all the way to Tualatin and Centrino.

Not bad for a chip with no specific software to take care of its wide highway.

 

[splice]

One of the biggest benefits I can see from the Opteron/Athlon64 is the doubling of available registers when in 64-bit mode. The more registers you have, the less you have to r/w main memory and the L1/L2 caches.

 

[dexvx]

Originally posted by: Macro2
When the Pentium Pro came out there wasn't much 32 bit software for it either. On 16 bit apps the Pentium classic would even beat it. People laughed because it ran at lower clock speeds than the Pentium.

Does this sound familiar?

The rest of the story....
Pentium Pro --> Pentium II ---> Pentium III all the way to Tualatin and Centrino.

Not bad for a chip with no specific software to take care of its wide highway.

Ironic. You can think of the Pentium 4 this way. It sometimes got beat by a Pentium III. Centrino in the P6 family? I think not.

Willamette -> Northwood/Centrino -> Prescott/Gotham

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: dexvx

Originally posted by: Macro2
When the Pentium Pro came out there wasn't much 32 bit software for it either. On 16 bit apps the Pentium classic would even beat it. People laughed because it ran at lower clock speeds than the Pentium.

Does this sound familiar?

The rest of the story....
Pentium Pro --> Pentium II ---> Pentium III all the way to Tualatin and Centrino.

Not bad for a chip with no specific software to take care of its wide highway.

Ironic. You can think of the Pentium 4 this way. It sometimes got beat by a Pentium III. Centrino in the P6 family? I think not.

Willamette -> Northwood/Centrino -> Prescott/Gotham

And *gasp* it ran current software, and has gotten better per clock with verious hardware and software optomizations...I think a pattern is forming here...
Is it that as new technology becomes used, that it will become better, simply by virtue of people making software with it in mind, and using newer versions of the compiler by the company making the said technology?

 

[jarich]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: kylef
The biggest problem with them right now is that there is no 64-bit version of Windows to make use of them yet. SuSe released a 64-bit linux distribution for AMD64, but Windows won't be ready until Windows Server 2003 Sp1 comes out...

The hardest part about the 64-bit operating system is getting device drivers built and working native 64-bit mode, then implementing a "thunking" layer to allow 32-bit programs to access devices using the 64-bit drivers. I'd be surprised if all devices you can use in 32-bit Linux work correctly in the new 64-bit linux on AMD64...

[edit]:
I should have added, however, that they DO work quite well in "legacy mode" == 32-bit mode. So your regular operating systems will work just fine.

What about a 64 bit version of Windows XP? I thought I read that was scheduled for release about 3 months after the Athlon-64... which would put it at the end of this year, beginning of next year.

Betas of 2003 and XP (both 64 bit) should come out 3rd quarter.