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Opportunity to rewire office - need advice please

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spidey07 said:
This has fail written all over it. But as notposting said, folks are paid a pretty penny to come in and fix the problems that WILL occur.

Sorry, just trying to be honest. I've seen this exact situation so many times it's about paid the 28 foot boat I've been looking at.

What kind of warranty will you be offering with your install? 10 year no cost replacement and retest? How about certification results and documentation for each drop?
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all you ever post is scare tactics about bad wire when people ask about doing this stuff

I have ran miles of cableing with no cert saying I am a certified wire monkey.

all of it test out and is in use daily with zero issues

if you have to come around here and scare new guys because you paid for a cert they didn't?

as long as they use good punchdown stuff they should be alright

its important to do it right, but it is NOT rocket science by any means

I have walked into 'professional' 'certified' wiring jobs that were absolute nightmares, finding all sorts of BS, stripped jackets ETC on lines, sitting ontop of banks of flourescent lights and stuff like that. calmp down ends that fall off when you move them......
 
Zargon said:
all you ever post is scare tactics about bad wire when people ask about doing this stuff

I have ran miles of cableing with no cert saying I am a certified wire monkey.

all of it test out and is in use daily with zero issues

if you have to come around here and scare new guys because you paid for a cert they didn't?

as long as they use good punchdown stuff they should be alright

its important to do it right, but it is NOT rocket science by any means

I have walked into 'professional' 'certified' wiring jobs that were absolute nightmares, finding all sorts of BS, stripped jackets ETC on lines, sitting ontop of banks of flourescent lights and stuff like that. calmp down ends that fall off when you move them......
Click to expand...

Certifications in this case means the cable is certified (as in tested [typically with real testers not LED testers ie the $5k to $30k kind] and verified) to be within tolerances.

Certified installers is not the same as a certified installation. Once you are handed a documented test result set, the installer can guarantee that all lines installed meet the specifications for the installed cable.

The example that you commented is actually shows that while cable installing is not rocket science, it takes a lot more than many people think to do it properly, with in spec, and presentably.

Also a good punch doesn't mean much once you start running Cat6 and Cat6e where unwrapping the wires to punch them to far will result in a failed drop.

We harp because we get tired of having 'weird network issues' caused by the installer trying to save a buck.
 
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What spidey posts about wiring is not "scare tactics" except perhaps to "scare" people away from something they really shouldn't be doing.

Zargon, even without a paper cert you probably know what you are doing after that many installations and you have the proper tools to certify the installation. The OP does not (on both counts) and really shouldn't be doing this job unless/until they do. If they really want to, they can use this job as a learning experience, but definitely need to get the proper installation and validation tools to help them find the inevitable places where they will install the cable incorrectly.
 
imagoon said:
Certifications in this case means the cable is certified (as in tested [typically with real testers not LED testers ie the $5k to $30k kind] and verified) to be within tolerances.

Certified installers is not the same as a certified installation. Once you are handed a documented test result set, the installer can guarantee that all lines installed meet the specifications for the installed cable.

The example that you commented is actually shows that while cable installing is not rocket science, it takes a lot more than many people think to do it properly, with in spec, and presentably.

Also a good punch doesn't mean much once you start running Cat6 and Cat6e where unwrapping the wires to punch them to far will result in a failed drop.

We harp because we get tired of having 'weird network issues' caused by the installer trying to save a buck.
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good points. indeed.

I am not sure in my market anyone will actually certify a network install as such

I also stay away from cat6 due to its nature of being 'more difficult' than cat5e to properly do.

and of course, dont crimp your own patch cables unless its an emergency


edit: and yeah, low end of cable certifiers are what........1000 bucks now?

wow price is dropping....http://cableorganizer.com/triplett/network-testers-lan/bytebrothers-rwc100k.htm#features
 
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real testers come built into many intel nic's nowadays. they can do everything a $5k-10K tester can. and then some.

aren't patch panels archaic now? the db loss and potential failure point is stupid.

Too many installers try to sneak in non-cat 6a components like wall plugs/patch panels to boost their job price -
 
Zargon said:
I am not sure in my market anyone will actually certify a network install as such

I also stay away from cat6 due to its nature of being 'more difficult' than cat5e to properly do.

and of course, dont crimp your own patch cables unless its an emergency


edit: and yeah, low end of cable certifiers are what........1000 bucks now?

wow price is dropping....http://cableorganizer.com/triplett/network-testers-lan/bytebrothers-rwc100k.htm#features
Click to expand...

My company would. Urbana is in side our C card zone.

You can use the cheap testers, they just tend to cost labor. We use expensive ones that can test a dozen cables at a time for example. The key thing is that it tests all specs. Tons of cheap ones will drop things like capacitance testing etc.

And yes in a pinch, like emulex said an Intel NIC can do pretty well. Thing is finding one of the good ones in a mobile form... I find the ones with real testing ability tend to be desktop / server cards. A few are in laptops.
 
120 is a lot of drops but is doable if you are willing to take the time and do a bit of research first. Being a commercial building you really do need to make sure you follow code. The code is pretty easy to follow, not at all as complicated as high voltage wiring which can cause fist fights to break out between electricians and inspectors over how to interpret the rules.

The first thing you need to do is visit your local building inspector and find out if they will allow you to wire the office and get a permit. Some states allow anyone to do low voltage wiring as long as it passes code while others will not even inspect it without the installer already being licensed. Here in NC anyone can wire their home for high or low voltage wiring without a license, but cannot wire anyone else property. So you cannot wire an office like you are doing unless you own the building.

If your code allows then pick up the book cabling, the complete guide to network wiring.
It covers what you need to know about code requirements in a pretty concise manner without bringing in things for other wiring types that would confuse things.
http://www.amazon.com/Cabling-Comple...5055863&sr=8-1
 
Modelworks said:
wire nuts 🙂
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lol.... don't joke... One of the offices we "fixed" had cat5e wire nutted to a "cat1" 50 pair cable then back to cat5e on the other side. They had added on a new section to the office 15 years prior and the installer was to lazy to pull cable over...

All the people in the new section always complained about how slow the network was also...

And I am not sure why a patch panel would be archaic... for plant <-> office it is the best thing to use. People that crimp RJ-45 on to a cable and plug it in to the switch are the archaic ones....
 
Goes against accepted practices to crimp on a connector and run into a switch directly. Thats what patch panels and patch cables are for.

The only time I've really seen connectorizing the cable in the field was a nurse call system in a hospital (the new GE/Dukane system). That one ran a circulating cat-5e (plus a power) type of setup, in and out of each dome light. We also used the EZ connectors and crimpers though, which do make things a lot easier (the end of the connector is open so you can take a couple inches of jacket off, untwist the wires and then get them in order and all nice, shove em through so the jacket is up where it needs to be, and also easily verify wire order, and the crimper has a blade to cut the ends flush when crimping).

And we had to test the shit out of that.
 
Emulex said:
crimping is a point of failure.

plus db loss.

run that straight to a switch man
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I seriously hope you're joking? If you're not - I hope no one actually pays you for wiring jobs. Never run cables directly into a switch. In the wall cables go to a patch panel, from the patch panel to a patch cable, from the patch cable to a switch. Just SOP
 
explain why? also explain the DB signal loss at 100 meter with POE gigabit for every time you split the wire?
 
Emulex said:
explain why? also explain the DB signal loss at 100 meter with POE gigabit for every time you split the wire?
Click to expand...

Connection losses are expected and the PoE spec requires devices to operate with the expectation of loss. @ 15.4w, the PoE spec expects devices to run at 12.95 watts do to losses in connections and cables.

A patch panel should be sub .5 DB loss. Ethernet spec sets aside about 4db loss for connections. You should be ok as long as the connection count is 8 and below.

--edit--

Also add to this: The cables from the wall should solid core. They are not designed to be pulled through 'active' cable management. IE if ports ever need to be reallocated you run the risk of breaking the entire run in order to move a cable. Also pulling other cables through the same manager can disturb the cables. Once you start moving the cables like that, they are no longer certified (if you had it done) and are prone to cracking.
 
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I have done lots of new office moves and many times, many times it's the county inspectors that gives you problems. Every place is different so you might get lucky.. NYC - no joy.. need union workers.. in CT, you can run the stuff yourself and no one cares.

We also used certified installer, pretty much the same guy all the time and they do go around with a fluke cable analyzer to test each line and certified them. Last job had 1250 drops at 80,000 sq ft, took the guys 4 days to go to each patch and test them out and print a report out for us.
 
120 drops.... 2 guys...no experience....fuck that.

I've done a few drops my self, the largest was 20 I think, after that I learned and have a guy I call for any cabling. Stick to what you do best and my best aint running wire.
 
Curious as to how this turned out.

Finally back to work for the moment and we are doing a couple floors at a call center/office environment. Reusing drops, panels, jacks, pulling some new as needed, and it all gets tested. Between bad jacks (either opens or the actual external connectors are broke) , occasional bad cables, and the inevitable crossed pairs here and there testing is pretty much a necessity.

Talking on the scale of a few thousand by the end though. Spent probably 40-50 hours last week just terminating. Short term job but sweet sweet, succulent OT 🙂
 
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