Opinions on Intel and AMD

Quinton McLeod

Senior member
Jan 17, 2006
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Hello all. I'm very new to these forums, however I have been reading them for quite a long time.

I've been posting on another computer forum for a few months now and I came across some interesting people. However, I'm interested in all of your opinions.

At this forum:
http://www.computerforums.org/showthread.php?t=30254&page=1&pp=15

I got into a debate with this guy named 133tDude3... Umm, he swears he knows everything about everything...

Anyway, how do you people feel about his opinions on this post? Do you believe they make much sense?
 

crispy2010

Platinum Member
Sep 18, 2004
2,419
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Are you going around the web to find people to go bash him?????

I personly think the thread was fine till you turned it into a flame war, you asked!
 

Quinton McLeod

Senior member
Jan 17, 2006
375
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No, not at all. He's been the way he is on several of my other posts, but I just wanted insight.

My goal is to at least get other experts to read the debate and find a medium. I believe most of the people at computerforums.org are kids and really don't know much about PCs. After reading several posts here for awhile, I've realized that the people here are much more collected and mature. They also have more experience.

Anyway, I'd have 133tDud3 read this same thread and at least have mature experts reply to the debate. Maybe that way he'll realize that his way of thinking is wrong.

I haven't been searching the internet. Like I was saying before, I've been reading several posts from this message forum and I just liked the community. I plan on being a regular here and hopefully migrate from Computer Forums.org.


 

stevty2889

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2003
7,036
8
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Originally posted by: Quinton McLeod

Hello all. I'm very new to these forums, however I have been reading them for quite a long time.

I've been posting on another computer forum for a few months now and I came across some interesting people. However, I'm interested in all of your opinions.

At this forum:
http://www.computerforums.org/showthread.php?t=30254&page=1&pp=15

I got into a debate with this guy named 133tDude3... Umm, he swears he knows everything about everything...

Anyway, how do you people feel about his opinions on this post? Do you believe they make much sense?

133tDude3 isn't too bright, or just likes to argue no matter how stupid he makes himself look. Sorry, but I'm not impressed with Presler. At stock speeds, even the 3800+ X2 was able to beat or keep up with the 955XE in most things, and it doesn't come close to the 4800+. They you have to take overclocking in to account too. X2's seem to make it to 2.6ghz easily(at least mine did), and from the numbers I get, a pentium-d need around 4.4-4.5ghz to catch up. If my stupid motherboard would cooperate, I'd probably be able to verify that, but it won't go higher than 222mhz FSB, so my Presler doesn't get past 3.1ghz. On my other motherboard with the Presler, overclocking is working backwards for some reason. I raise the FSB to 240, and it runs at 160 instead, raise it to 266, and it runs at 172mhz instead. Yet it works fine with my P4. I've had no trouble with my X2, and nothing but trouble from my Pentium-D's. And my X2 outperforms them by a long shot.
 

Wingznut

Elite Member
Dec 28, 1999
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I started to read it, but quickly grew tired of you guys arguing about terminology that you never defined.

You guys are making assumptions on "X2" and "P4 D" very differently.

People have opinons... Why argue over them, and semantics, and then travel around the 'net trying to generate support? Why am I replying? Tune in next week for the answers to those. ;)
 

Quinton McLeod

Senior member
Jan 17, 2006
375
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Originally posted by: Wingznut
I started to read it, but quickly grew tired of you guys arguing about terminology that you never defined.

You guys are making assumptions on "X2" and "P4 D" very differently.

People have opinons... Why argue over them, and semantics, and then travel around the 'net trying to generate support? Why am I replying? Tune in next week for the answers to those. ;)


Oh, I've provided urls and factual sources to back up my arguments before. However, in that particular thread, I just grew tired showing him again and again and again.
 

openwheelformula1

Senior member
Sep 2, 2005
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I don't think we need that kind of arguements here. Let the results of Anand's benches be the judge. If we start this Intel vs. AMD crap it'll simply degrade our forums.
 

Avalon

Diamond Member
Jul 16, 2001
7,571
178
106
You guys are just arguing semantics right now. You both look silly. However, I'll admit it's pretty stupid to claim that the Pentium D 920 is the best price to performance ratio processor when comparing it to an X2 4800+ that is $750. Compare it price-wise and performance wise to an X2 3800+, and you'll have a comparison you can draw facts from.
 

buzzsaw13

Diamond Member
Apr 30, 2004
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Originally posted by: openwheelformula1
I don't think we need that kind of arguements here. Let the results of Anand's benches be the judge. If we start this Intel vs. AMD crap it'll simply degrade our forums.

Of course we have arguments like that over here, apparently you haven't seen some of the older threads that get locked :p

Anyway, that guy is an idiot. He's trying to compare that 2.8ghz clocked chip compared to the 4800+ X2, you pointed it out, but he doesn't want to listen. It's useless arguing with idiots like that.
 

coldpower27

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2004
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A note, the actual name of acertain processor you are arguing is Pentium Extreme Edition 955, it is a Dual Core processor based on the Presler core with Hyper Threading enabled but itself is not a Pentium D as it's based on the enthusiast line while the Pentium D is intended for the mainstream line, sort of like the difference between a Athlon FX 60 and Athlon 64x2 4800+, both are Dual Cores and both are Toledo cores but they are named different. The Pentium D's lack Hyper Threading, while the Athlon FX's have unlocked multipliers, that is what seperates them.

I beleive Mr.F posted his own explanation on this.

Heh, your opinion topic is a bit vague, while AMD has a performance edge with it's Dual Cores, Intel still continues to dominate in the amount of net profit and revenue they generate, in comparison to AMD.
 

aLeoN

Member
Oct 24, 2005
167
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By 1337DuD3:
I've never used an overclocked AMD or an overclocked intel. I have used a 2.6 GHz Athelon 64, and my Pentium 4 @ 2.8GHz and I barely noticed a difference. I also had a better video card, but I wasn't using any games at the time. So I doubt the video card owuld make a difference when it comes to general computing.

LOL!
 

Furen

Golden Member
Oct 21, 2004
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I'll tell you what I'd post over there (I won't post it because I have no interest in making yet another account):

First off, the OP asked how the PDs did compared to current X2s, so I'd guess he's interested in the specific details. I could tell him that a pentium 3 can run Word just fine and that he doesn't need to buy anything else but that's not what he's asking.

Secondly, I'm not absolutely certain about this but I'm pretty sure Intel calls the 900 series dual-core. Sure it's a multi-die package (two dies, each holding a processing core with its cache) but since it has two processing cores let us call it dual-core for simplicity's sake.

Third, I seriously doubt anyone would not notice the difference between a 2.6GHz A64 (aka the FX-55) and a Pentium 4 2.8GHz (the top end Intel CPU from March 2002, though the architecture changed... for worse) but to each his own, I suppose.

Now I'll get to the real meat and potatoes of my post:

Intel has the following 900 series CPUs,

Pentium D 920 2.8GHz@ ~$265
Pentium D 930 3.0GHz@ ~$340
Pentium D 940 3.2GHz
Pentium D 950 3.4GHz@ ~$750
Pentium XE 955 3.46GHz @ $1k+

AMD has the following X2s,
Athlon 64 X2 3800+ 2.0GHz, 1MB L2 Total@ ~$320
Athlon 64 X2 4200+ 2.2GHz, 1MB L2 Total @ ~$400
Athlon 64 X2 4400+ 2.2GHz, 2MB L2 Total
Athlon 64 X2 4600+ 2.4GHz, 1MB L2 Total
Athlon 64 X2 4800+ 2.4GHz, 2MB L2 Total @ ~$780
Athlon 64 FX-60 2.6GHz, 2MB L2 Total @ $1k+

If you look at the above you'll notice that the cheapest X2 is slightly less expensive than the Pentium D 930, which it outperforms by quite a bit. On the other hand, the 920 is about $60 cheaper than it but this gets outperformed even worse. The 4800+ pretty much matches the price of the 950 but once again outperforms it by quite a bit, too. The FX-60 also outperforms the XE. Motherboards that support the 900 series should be a bit more expensive than socket 939 motherboards that support the X2 (most of them) and its nice to get the ability to run an AGP motherboard if you so desire. There's also the fact that the power draw of AMD's X2s is close to half that of their comparable Intel analog (seriously) and the temperatures are much lower (though it seems most motherboards out there are reporting temperatures of the 900 series around 15-25C, which is impossible if you think about it). Intel's 65nm chips do end up overclocking quite well, though the power draw increases massively as well so plan your cooling well if you plan on overclocking significantly).


Here's what I'd recommend. If you dont plan on overclocking then go AMD, no questions asked. They'll just perform better without having insane amounts of heat and power draw. If you do plan on overclocking and are willing (and able) to deal with the increased power draw then by all means go Pentium D (I'd say close to 200W at 4.26GHz for the CPU alone, close to 350W or so for the whole system, which is a huge draw to throw onto the 12v PSU rail/rails), since I think most Ds can probably hit around 4GHz without much problem, which would match an X2 at 2.7-2.8GHz or so.

Personally I'd go with either an A64 X2 or one of those lovely Core Duo CPUs that should be hitting the market soon. Though Yonah is slightly slower than AMD, clock for clock, its power draw is much lower (I'd say close to half the power draw at stock) and overclocking will probably be quite fruitful on these as well. X2s do overclock pretty decently but I'd say 2.6GHz is what you should expect if you dont want to be disappointed.
 

BrownTown

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2005
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I saw a 2.0ghz Yonah at 2.76 on air, so there should be some potential there for a low power CPU that can compete with the top end desktops. Although at 2.76G you prolly are past Yonah TDP, but who really cares, its still the lowest power consumption you can get in a dual core...
 

Furen

Golden Member
Oct 21, 2004
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I havent seen any overclocked Yonahs yet but looking at Dothan it does sound like it will overclock quite well. It kind of sucks that they lack 64bits, though, I'd like to keep a dual-core PC that can run 64bit vista...
 

BrownTown

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2005
5,314
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64bit = marketing hype

Maybe when Windows Vista comes out it will make a differnece. But, I dun know about you, but I sure as heck aint gonna go out and buy Vista when it comes out, win XP works just fine for me, and I, like most people, will just put off getting Vista till I get a new computer.
 

RichUK

Lifer
Feb 14, 2005
10,341
678
126
Originally posted by: Furen
I havent seen any overclocked Yonahs yet but looking at Dothan it does sound like it will overclock quite well. It kind of sucks that they lack 64bits, though, I'd like to keep a dual-core PC that can run 64bit vista...

My Dual core 2.13Ghz Yonah comes in a week or two, laptop though so no over clocking :( But Dual Core + a 7800 GO on a laptop = :D

I think the Merom > Yonah refresh is supposed to incorporate 64bit extensions as one of it?s main superseding features against Yonah, along with the increase in clock speed and reduced TDP rating etc.
 

BrownTown

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2005
5,314
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actually i'd say 64bit is more of a periphrial change betweenthe two, merom is a completely differnet architecure, but EMT64 has just been copied from the P4 and bolted in, its not implimented in a revolutionary fashion in merom
 

Leper Messiah

Banned
Dec 13, 2004
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Originally posted by: Furen
I'll tell you what I'd post over there (I won't post it because I have no interest in making yet another account):

First off, the OP asked how the PDs did compared to current X2s, so I'd guess he's interested in the specific details. I could tell him that a pentium 3 can run Word just fine and that he doesn't need to buy anything else but that's not what he's asking.

Secondly, I'm not absolutely certain about this but I'm pretty sure Intel calls the 900 series dual-core. Sure it's a multi-die package (two dies, each holding a processing core with its cache) but since it has two processing cores let us call it dual-core for simplicity's sake.

Third, I seriously doubt anyone would not notice the difference between a 2.6GHz A64 (aka the FX-55) and a Pentium 4 2.8GHz (the top end Intel CPU from March 2002, though the architecture changed... for worse) but to each his own, I suppose.

Now I'll get to the real meat and potatoes of my post:

Intel has the following 900 series CPUs,

Pentium D 920 2.8GHz@ ~$265
Pentium D 930 3.0GHz@ ~$340
Pentium D 940 3.2GHz
Pentium D 950 3.4GHz@ ~$750
Pentium XE 955 3.46GHz @ $1k+

AMD has the following X2s,
Athlon 64 X2 3800+ 2.0GHz, 1MB L2 Total@ ~$320
Athlon 64 X2 4200+ 2.2GHz, 1MB L2 Total @ ~$400
Athlon 64 X2 4400+ 2.2GHz, 2MB L2 Total
Athlon 64 X2 4600+ 2.4GHz, 1MB L2 Total
Athlon 64 X2 4800+ 2.4GHz, 2MB L2 Total @ ~$780
Athlon 64 FX-60 2.6GHz, 2MB L2 Total @ $1k+

If you look at the above you'll notice that the cheapest X2 is slightly less expensive than the Pentium D 930, which it outperforms by quite a bit. On the other hand, the 920 is about $60 cheaper than it but this gets outperformed even worse. The 4800+ pretty much matches the price of the 950 but once again outperforms it by quite a bit, too. The FX-60 also outperforms the XE. Motherboards that support the 900 series should be a bit more expensive than socket 939 motherboards that support the X2 (most of them) and its nice to get the ability to run an AGP motherboard if you so desire. There's also the fact that the power draw of AMD's X2s is close to half that of their comparable Intel analog (seriously) and the temperatures are much lower (though it seems most motherboards out there are reporting temperatures of the 900 series around 15-25C, which is impossible if you think about it). Intel's 65nm chips do end up overclocking quite well, though the power draw increases massively as well so plan your cooling well if you plan on overclocking significantly).


Here's what I'd recommend. If you dont plan on overclocking then go AMD, no questions asked. They'll just perform better without having insane amounts of heat and power draw. If you do plan on overclocking and are willing (and able) to deal with the increased power draw then by all means go Pentium D (I'd say close to 200W at 4.26GHz for the CPU alone, close to 350W or so for the whole system, which is a huge draw to throw onto the 12v PSU rail/rails), since I think most Ds can probably hit around 4GHz without much problem, which would match an X2 at 2.7-2.8GHz or so.

Personally I'd go with either an A64 X2 or one of those lovely Core Duo CPUs that should be hitting the market soon. Though Yonah is slightly slower than AMD, clock for clock, its power draw is much lower (I'd say close to half the power draw at stock) and overclocking will probably be quite fruitful on these as well. X2s do overclock pretty decently but I'd say 2.6GHz is what you should expect if you dont want to be disappointed.

you underestimate AMD a little bit I think the rough ratio is like 1.65 or 1.7 to 1...1.65 would be about 4.3 GHz, which is certainly possible, but you need 1) an expensive 975 mobo to hit the high FSB's for the 920, B) either really good air cooling or WC to keep it cool and C) a very good PSU due to the higher power draw. I run my manchester+7800GT+2 HDD/1 optical on an antec 400 watt and its fine...so to get the equivalent performance, you end up spending more money in the short term, and a fair bit more in the long term too, due to higher power draw.
 

Quinton McLeod

Senior member
Jan 17, 2006
375
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0
Originally posted by: stevty2889
Originally posted by: Quinton McLeod

Hello all. I'm very new to these forums, however I have been reading them for quite a long time.

I've been posting on another computer forum for a few months now and I came across some interesting people. However, I'm interested in all of your opinions.

At this forum:
http://www.computerforums.org/showthread.php?t=30254&page=1&pp=15

I got into a debate with this guy named 133tDude3... Umm, he swears he knows everything about everything...

Anyway, how do you people feel about his opinions on this post? Do you believe they make much sense?

133tDude3 isn't too bright, or just likes to argue no matter how stupid he makes himself look. Sorry, but I'm not impressed with Presler. At stock speeds, even the 3800+ X2 was able to beat or keep up with the 955XE in most things, and it doesn't come close to the 4800+. They you have to take overclocking in to account too. X2's seem to make it to 2.6ghz easily(at least mine did), and from the numbers I get, a pentium-d need around 4.4-4.5ghz to catch up. If my stupid motherboard would cooperate, I'd probably be able to verify that, but it won't go higher than 222mhz FSB, so my Presler doesn't get past 3.1ghz. On my other motherboard with the Presler, overclocking is working backwards for some reason. I raise the FSB to 240, and it runs at 160 instead, raise it to 266, and it runs at 172mhz instead. Yet it works fine with my P4. I've had no trouble with my X2, and nothing but trouble from my Pentium-D's. And my X2 outperforms them by a long shot.


I agree with you.... However, lets see if 133tDud3 does.
 

Furen

Golden Member
Oct 21, 2004
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Originally posted by: Leper Messiah

you underestimate AMD a little bit I think the rough ratio is like 1.65 or 1.7 to 1...1.65 would be about 4.3 GHz, which is certainly possible, but you need 1) an expensive 975 mobo to hit the high FSB's for the 920, B) either really good air cooling or WC to keep it cool and C) a very good PSU due to the higher power draw. I run my manchester+7800GT+2 HDD/1 optical on an antec 400 watt and its fine...so to get the equivalent performance, you end up spending more money in the short term, and a fair bit more in the long term too, due to higher power draw.

I do think I'm understimating X2s slightly but not by much. The whole 1.65-1.7x the performance per clock thing is probably not true, considering that that would mean a 2.2GHz X2 would perform the same as a 3.6-3.7GHz Pentium D, which I seriously doubt (excepting gaming, where the X2 would probably win). Also, remember that Pentiums have massive gains from front-side bus improvements, which is why an XE 955 is closer to the FX-60 than the XE 840 ever was to the 4800+, so when overclocking Intel has a higher gain than AMD. The guys at Tech Report actually showed this in their 955 vs FX-60 article. Their 955 at 4.26GHz pretty much matched the FX-60 at 2.9GHz, though the increased power consumption on the Intel side was pretty sick.