Opinions Needed on CPU/HSF/Case

[Sean53221]

Hi

Putting together a new system for use as a little bit of everything. Gaming, watching Blu-Rays, serving via VMWare, etc. I'd like to buy as much horsepower as I can afford in order to not buy crap twice, but not drop $1k on a CPU.

So here's what I've picked up in the FS/T forums here:

Abit IN9 32X-MAX Mobo Specs
Previous owner states "I performed the bolt mod to the OTES cooling assembly to improve cooling to the chipsets and PWM area."

4 GB G.SKILL PC2-6400 RAM

SilverStone ST350 350W PSU

2xPNY 6600GT 128mb Cards (I know, they will be replaced when I have the cash/find a killer deal on something in the 8800 area but for the price I couldn't pass it up.).

Golden Orb HSF (Needed something to get started with, and the seller had this)

SO my questions are this:

1) Case - looking for something large, with the most 3.5" internal bays available, and/or 5.25 external bays that I could put hot swap trays in. Let's just say that this machine will need lots of hard disk storage. 2 5.25's for Sony BD-ROM and Pioneed 20X DVD-RW. Doesn't need to be flashy, or have windows, lights, cold cathode, etc. Black preferred, size is no object. Looking to spend $100ish (less is better, but...)

2) CPU - I'm leaning towards a core2quad, four a couple of reasons including A) I can have VMWare running and still have cores to burn, and B) core2quads are just sexy. It's been told to me that the PSU is pretty heavy duty for its wattage. Should I be worried at that wattage? Again, would like to buy as much as I can horsepower-wise as to avoid buying twice. Looking at the $2-300 range for the proc, and if anyone has something used they are looking to sell, let me know. Overclocking is another consideration. Given all the varying clock rates, cache sizes, and certain model's known range of OCability, and I've been out of the enthusiast market for quite some time, need help.

3) HSF - Obviously need this. How does the Golden Orb I bought measure up for C2Q's and overclocking? I know it's a low RPM fan and all. Based on CPU reccomendations above, let me know what you think would keep it cool even under mild to moderate overclocking. Apparently the mainboard is pretty darn tweakable OC-wise. Looking to spend ~$50 or maybe $75 if the extra money on the HSF buys me more OCability thus saving $$$ on the proc.

Thanks in advance for everyone's input.

MOD EDIT: Moved to General Hardware, which is a better place for system build help. - Zap

 

[Kraeoss]

Case: Antec 900Antec 900 for good airflow
$99.99

or

Antec 1200 bigger better cooler
$179.99

CPU: Q6600 Best bang for buck Quadwise
$179.99

HSF:Sunbeam Core Freezer i like this one, but hsf's are all down to what u like what cools best. this cooler holds up nicely
$34.99

tis my .02 c

 

[Sean53221]

Sweet! Thanks... the Antec 1200 was $149 after the promo code for 20% off (20ANTEC) that expires tomorrow. That looks like one bad-ass cooler. I'm definitely ordering those two at least. Off to FS/FT to look for a Q6600...

 

[Kraeoss]

no problemo dude

 

[Concillian]

I have an Antec 300, and it's essentially all the airflow of a 900 without all the bling at slightly more than half the cost. You don't get front fans with it, but I can feel air being drawn in the front even without them, and I much prefer the styling of the 300.

Q6600 at stock is fine with that PSU. If you get into serious OCing, pushing voltage and frequency on that CPU pull over 150W+ all on it's own, at that point the 350W supply becomes a little questionable. But if you keep the voltage increases minimum, it OCs well enough and should satisfy your needs.

The 45nm quads have higher stock FSBs, which is good for stock performance, but means that the amount of headroom for overclocking without having to resort to extreme motherboard measures is limited. You can only count on something in the 400-450 FSB range. Quads tend to hit a pretty hard wall at 450 FSB, but with a board that has extensive BIOS options can push things a little further (through a lot of trial and error). This limits some of the cheaper 45nm quads, to make them less attractive for a budget OCer.

Thus your strong options for performance are Q6600 maybe in the 3.0 GHz range (some push up into 3.4+ range, but far from guaranteed and may be pushing your power supply) or an e8400 in the 3.8 - 4.2 GHz range, with the bottom end of that range being more sure, of course.

Best bang for the buck HSFs seem to be the designs like the Core Contact Freezer, Xigmatek S1283 and OCZ Vendetta 2. Thermalright 120 Ultra Extreme tends to eek a little better transfer out, but once you add the fan you're looking at close to double what the others are costing for a fairly small benefit.

Orb will be adequate if you aren't overclocking, but any reasonable heatpipe tower type cooler will beat it pretty handily. Realistically, Thermaltake products can be safely ignored in any serious HSF comparison. Golden Orb is slightly better than the stock intel cooler, but not really by much.

 

[Sean53221]

What's everybody's thoughts on the Q9550 proc? I found one for fairly inexpensive... I know the multiplier is low, but with all the crap I can play with on this board? Would that start wringing too much juice out of the PSU?

 

[rogue1979]

Can I ask why you are spending so much on a motherboard if you are trying to save money on video cards?

Besides, I though Abit was gonna discontinue manufacturing motherboards?

It's hard to find, but it looks like the IN9 costs in excess of $200.

Maybe buying a non-sli motherboard for as low as $50 shipped would allow you to get a 9800GT for $99 after rebate and still spend less than the two 6600's and the Abit board? Not sure what prices you looked at, but it could be $100 savings or more and you would be gaming much faster. You could apply that $100 savings towards an even faster video card, HD 4850 or even 4870, or 9800GTX.

Biostar G31-M7 TE is about $50 shipped, supports Quad core, 1600MHz fsb and has all the necessary overclocking options.

Also the Silverstone power supply might be a little overwhelmed and it not 80% efficient. For about $5 more you could go with an Antec Earthwatts 430 that is 80% rated.

The ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro is about the same price as the Golden Orb and is a excellent cooler for the price.

 

[Denithor]

You'll get a lot better answers in the General Hardware forum. Ask one of the mods to move the thread over there.

Q9550 will be a phenomenal processor, just make sure you have a supported chip to flash the BIOS to version 15 so the quad will be recognized. CPU support list.

For overclocking quads you want a good cooler, something like the Tuniq Tower 120 or the XIGMATEK HDT-RS1283.

The Silverstone PSU is a bit weak, especially if you're planning to run multiple video cards and overclock a quad-core processor. Go for an Antec EA500 or a Corsair 520HX (modular cables).

 

[Concillian]

Originally posted by: NewLightNet
What's everybody's thoughts on the Q9550 proc? I found one for fairly inexpensive... I know the multiplier is low, but with all the crap I can play with on this board? Would that start wringing too much juice out of the PSU?

9550 will be fine on power. If you're willing to drop cash on that, you can easily surpass Q6600 if your motherboard supports it. Even if it can only reach FSB 400 (3.4GHZ) you should be able to be higher performance than anything your Q6600 would get to and also significantly lower power than a Q6600 at anything that would resemble similar performance.

http://www.hardwarezone.com/ar...hp?cid=2&id=2521&pg=11

shows how significant the power difference is between the Q6600 and the 45nm quads. When overclocking it's even more significant, as you are scaling from a lower number. A Q9550 at 3.4 will definitely consume less than a Q6600 at 3.0.

No board pushes quads beyond 450 FSB very easily. But if you're willing to spend on a quad that has a high enough multiplier, then you're okay. A 9550 is 3.4 at 400 FSB and 3825 at 450 FSB, which is sufficiently high to be quite powerful. The issues are more an issue with the cheaper quads like Q9300, which is probably capable of 4 GHz, but mulitplier limits it to less than 3400 at 450FSB, which is already a struggle on some boards with quads.

 

[Sean53221]

Concillian -

That was a pretty darned revealing bench you linked to. The Q9550 I'm looking at (sold on) seems to be a close match to the QX9650 in the real world, stock-to-stock, if I'm reading the article correctly. I'm sure the QX being unlocked would whomp if overclocked carefully, but I'm not remortgaging the house to buy one.

Thanks for the link!

 

[Sean53221]

Rogue:

I guess I kinda started picking stuff up without thinking too hard. The 6800's will most certainly get replaced (and hance then DISplaced into other systems as single cards for everyday use and be sold/given) by something beefier. More or less something to fill the slots till I found a deal on something 8800-ish or 9800-ish. I'm more an an NVidia guy than an ATI guy. But you pose an interesting case.

I picked up the IN9 in the FS/FT forums for a pretty good price, the psu at ~$30 shipped, and the 6800's for ~$40. I then picked up the Q9550 at about ~$200, couldn't pass it up.

Now here's the stinger: I'm reading the 680i chipset boards don't get along well at all with the 45nm quads. So I'm back to square one, I'm thinking. Plop the IN9 back on FS/FT, and either go with something with a 7-series chipset, or something along the lines of the G31 or an Intel X board as you suggest, with an [edit] single [/edit] kickass GPU. (9800GX2 and call it a year?) Or do I wait and try the quad with the IN9 I bought? I just hear rotten things all over after googling the mainboard name and the proc model, and then the chipset on said board and proc model.

Ahhh the costs of impetuousness. I could probably put the 6800's back up and the IN9 and easily recover what I've paid for them. As long as I'm staring down the barrel of a new board, thoughts on DDR2 vs DDR3 on the Q9550? From a concensus of what I've read, DDR2 @ 1066 should still leave plenty of headroom.

Are we getting to the point with the price and performance of a single card where SLI is kind of an outdated idea? (ok maybe not "outdated", but maybe diminishing returns would be a better word given the cost of the 7series board, 2nd card, increased PSU draw, etc.).

 

[Zap]

Reference 680i boards had definate issues with 45nm quadcores. Abit board may not be reference, because CPU shows up on their supported list.

Originally posted by: NewLightNet
Ahhh the costs of impetuousness.

Yes indeed. The RAM and CPU were good buys, but IMO the motherboard, video cards, CPU heatsink and power supply were not. You can usually find decent power supplies in the 450-550W range for around $50 which while costlier than your 350W, would suffice for higher end video cards (if you choose the right unit).

For video card, you might still be able to find the 9600 GSO for $50 after rebate.

Is your Golden Orb a Golden Orb II? I have one in my gaming rig and it is barely better than a stock Intel unit. Not worth spending money on, IMO. Good thing I got mine for free (LAN party swag). Oh yeah, while it cooled slightly better than stock Intel unit, it was also noisier. Go figure!

I just bought this Lian Li Lancool case. It is on sale for $76 plus around $20 shipping. It can fit large video cards and has five HDD bays that aren't necessarily hot swap, but have grommets and look to be easy to slide drives into, and hook up. I just ordered it last night (okay, this morning at 3am!) so I don't have hands-on experience yet, but will by the end of next week. I'm REALLY picky about cases, and have high hopes for this one.

The best part for you is that currently there are a bunch of combo deals with this case (click on "Combo Deals (view all)" at the bottom). You can basically get a SeaSonic M12II SS-500GM for $60 (with free shipping). This is a good quality 500W modular unit.

If you can stretch your budget a hair and really need a bazillion drive bays, the Chieftec Bravo is your case. It is black and has SIXTEEN drive bays! Your 350W Silverstone will keel over and die if you tried running that many hard drives on it. Okay it won't, but it will shut off (OCP). Eight of the drive bays are internal 3½" for hard drives... imagine filling that up with 1.5TB drives? Which, BTW if you are wanting big storage, don't start with anything smaller than 1TB. The 1.5TB Seagate is $170 with free shipping at Newegg, which is pretty cheap for GB/$. You want the biggest drives now because a small drive takes as much power as a big drive, so while a single 1.5TB drive will take 15W max (rough estimate), using three 500GB drives will take 45W max. Once you start hitting 5-10TB space, this becomes a big hit on your PSU.

 

[Blain]

Dump the SLI 6600GT cards. They are power hogs for the performance they yield.

Speaking of power...
give yourself a little breathing room with a 500W Thermaltake Purepower @ $35 after rebate.

Quality case with tons of drive bays...
The Antec 1200 is the best bang for the buck.

Quad core CPU in the $0-$300 range...
Q9550 / 2.83GHz / 12MB L2 cache for a bit over $300.

Quiet and cool HS/fan...
The Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro @ $27 shipped is very hard to beat.

 

[Sean53221]

Okay, so I bit on the $149 free shipping Antec Twelve Hundred. It came today and all I can say is DIZNAMN that is one big pig of a case. Looks nice and minimalistic. Definitely easy enough to work in (not tool-free, though which I guess could go either way), but definitely well built and well thought out. (I'm used to the $29 specials that seem to be designed to do only one thing: cut yo a$$ up ) I'm happy with the money I spent on that case, and as long as they don't phase out the ATX form factor, I think I'm going to be hanging on to that for quite awhile.

I went with the DFI LANPARTY DK X38-T2RB after much reviewing of reviews and grumbling about the money. I (go ahead - flame away) liked that it still had a PCI slot or two.

Decided to hang onto the Visiontek 4850 512 card I got, and eventually use the CrossFire on that board. A pair of 4850's should be acceptable for decent gaming?

I bought another PSU, this time a Zalman ZM600-HP 600W for $100 NIB shipped from the forums here. That should cover me for awhile. (I hear they are mildly under-rated units).

ON TO THE BEST NEWS!!! The $220 Q9550 got here today and it is an E0 (SLB8V) stepping. I'm looking forward to the board getting here tommorrow so I can get down to business with that goodness. Picked up the Sunbeam "Core Contact Freezer" - and all I can say is I'm glad I got a big case.

Between the PSU's heatpipe cooling, the variable speed fans of the Antec 1200, and the quietness claim on the HSF, should be a fairly quiet machine to boot.

I already moved my (3) 1TB Seagate drives into the case (2 more on the way), and mounted up the Pioneer DVD-RW and the Sony BD-ROM with pretty much zero obstruction to installing the mainboard. I want to go chase the UPS guy down for the mobo.

I THINK I might have it right this time.

If anyone's interested, I can keep you updated with how the build goes tomorrow n maybe some photos. We will see how annoying the perma-blue-LEDs that can't be turned off turn out to be in the 1200.


Thanks for the help, support, and suggestions. I'm sure I'll be back in this thread either overjoyed or b/c I screwed something up.