Opinion in Affirmative Action case, but no DOMA/Prop 8 or voting rights opinion today

Wreckem

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Sep 23, 2006
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They released Fisher v. University of Texas. A 7-1 opinion(Kagan recused), Ginsburg Dissenting. http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/12pdf/11-345_l5gm.pdf

While some were hoping they would do away with Affirmative Action this did not happen. They used their previous analysis to vacate and remand. Thus their previous analysis is still the precedent regarding affirmative action. So diversity being a compelling state interest is still intact and affirmative action is still permissible so long as it is narrowly tailored enough to meet strict scrutiny.

The case was vacated and remanded because the lower courts did not use strict scrutiny(Ginsburg disagreed).

Its obvious that Scalia and Thomas would overrule Grutter but since they werent asked to do so Scalia agreed with the majority in full and Thomas concurred. So Affirmative Action lives on, it might come back up before the court but that might take a long time.

More opinions tomorrow and Weds or Thursday.
 
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Wreckem

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Sep 23, 2006
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There are 6 cases left

Adoptive Couple v. Baby Girl (Indian Child Welfare Act)
Hollingsworth v. Perry (Prop 8)
Koontz v. St. Johns River Water Management District (Takings case under Nollan/Dolan)
Sekhar v. U.S. (extortion case)
Shelby County v. Holder (Voting Rights Act)
U.S. v. Windsor (DOMA)
 

Wreckem

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Sep 23, 2006
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So they have to rule by next Monday right?

There are six cases remaining.

Its possible(but not likely) all are released tomorrow.

The more likely scenario is 3-4 are released tomorrow, and the remaining 2-3 are released on Wednesday or Thursday.

All opinions will be released by Thursday morning at the latest.
 

Wreckem

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Sep 23, 2006
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Sounds reasonable. And therefore totally boring.

The more interesting cases are the two that limit an employees ability to sue its employer for retaliation and discrimination.

A supervisor(in its plain meaning) isn't a supervisor, they are merely a co-worker who oversees your day to day activities, unless they have the ability to directly fire you. Its a ridiculous interpretation.
 
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Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
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Strict scrutiny is a very high hurdle to clear, but I wish they had just made a damn decision. There have been too many SC cases regarding this singular issue the past few decades.
 

berzerker60

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Jul 18, 2012
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Step 1) Resegragate your public high schools (long ago accomplished in Texas)
Step 2) Build new schools in white districts, allow ones in minority districts to get run down; defund all public education as much as humanly possible (long ago accomplished in Texas)
Step 3) Go to "race neutral" policies where only the top-performing students get into universities with no consideration of the benefits of diversity
Step 4) Whites only universities again; never have to meet someone of a different race on equal terms in your life
Step 5) Without ever meeting a black or latino person in real life as a friend or classmate, adopt the just world fallacy and pretend that if minorities aren't in college it's just because they couldn't earn it
Step 6) Use this racist idea to defund public education, because they clearly aren't working anyway

If we had integrated, meritocratic, well funded high schools, then AA would be less absolutely critical. But we don't, and especially not in Texas.
 
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Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
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Step 1) Resegragate your public high schools (long ago accomplished in Texas)
Step 2) Build new schools in white districts, allow ones in minority districts to get run down; defund all public education as much as humanly possible (long ago accomplished in Texas)
Step 3) Go to "race neutral" policies where only the top-performing students get into universities with no consideration of the benefits of diversity
Step 4) Whites only universities again; never have to meet someone of a different race on equal terms in your life
Step 5) Without ever meeting a black or latino person in real life as a friend or classmate, adopt the just world fallacy and pretend that if minorities aren't in college it's just because they couldn't earn it
Step 6) Use this racist idea to defund public education, because they clearly aren't working anyway

If we had integrated, meritocratic, well funded high schools, then AA would be less absolutely critical. But we don't, and especially not in Texas.

Funny how Asian students were/are able to overcome those "racism/racists/<fill in the blank> excuses and do very well in college/university. I wonder why? Maybe something about hard work and dedication to education? What a bunch of sold out/uncle Tom/cornball/acting white/<fill in the blank nasty words>. How dare they behave like that? :rolleyes: <sarcastic>
 
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Vic Vega

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Sep 24, 2010
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Also - Texas is larger than France... hard for me to believe you could get basically a country sized place to all together focus on the things berzerker60 is claiming and it not get national attention.
 

Wreckem

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Sep 23, 2006
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Also - Texas is larger than France... hard for me to believe you could get basically a country sized place to all together focus on the things berzerker60 is claiming and it not get national attention.

State sponsored segregation is illegal. But segregation still exists because of self selection(also known as white flight, but isn't limited to white people). That is how you finds schools that are ~99% white, even though a city is like 40% minorities.

Basically minority enrollment increases, whites flee to different areas outside that schools boundary line.

You also have instances in Texas where a school is 95% black and then within the last decade it has switched to 95% Hispanic.

In sum, the races self segregate.

As for schools getting run down. There is a huge disparity between wealthy school districts(mostly white) and poor school districts(mix of all races) in Texas. So yes poor school districts are allowed to deteriorate, but that is not because of race, that is because of socio-economic divide and how public education and school infrastructure are financed in Texas. Education in Texas favors those that can afford to live in the good school districts(the wealthy ones), not whos black or whos white. Poor whites suffer the same poor education as poor blacks or hispanics.
 
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DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
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Step 1) Resegragate your public high schools (long ago accomplished in Texas)
Step 2) Build new schools in white districts, allow ones in minority districts to get run down; defund all public education as much as humanly possible (long ago accomplished in Texas)

Step 3) Go to "race neutral" policies where only the top-performing students get into universities with no consideration of the benefits of diversity
Step 4) Whites only universities again; never have to meet someone of a different race on equal terms in your life
Step 5) Without ever meeting a black or latino person in real life as a friend or classmate, adopt the just world fallacy and pretend that if minorities aren't in college it's just because they couldn't earn it
Step 6) Use this racist idea to defund public education, because they clearly aren't working anyway

If we had integrated, meritocratic, well funded high schools, then AA would be less absolutely critical. But we don't, and especially not in Texas.

If any of those was remotely true it would be all over the courts. The reality is, it isn't true at all.

Asians are doing great, without the help of AA. Asians who came to this country with nothing but the clothes on their backs.
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
State sponsored segregation is illegal. But segregation still exists because of self selection(also known as white flight, but isn't limited to white people). That is how you finds schools that are ~99% white, even though a city is like 40% minorities.

Basically minority enrollment increases, whites flee to different areas outside that schools boundary line.

You also have instances in Texas where a school is 95% black and then within the last decade it has switched to 95% Hispanic.

In sum, the races self segregate.

Black flight, or just massive Hispanic influx?
 

blankslate

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2008
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Ok. So racism still exists.

After reading some of the weird posts here you'd have any doubt?

Now if there is enough to not revisit affirmative action? Well it looks like the SCOTUS pretty much told states to use their best judgement more or less.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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Step 1) Resegragate your public high schools (long ago accomplished in Texas)

...

If we had integrated, meritocratic, well funded high schools, then AA would be less absolutely critical. But we don't, and especially not in Texas.

Would you mind explaining why if you put black students in a predominantly white HS they will suddenly start doing just as well as the white students?

Also, you do realize research has shown students learn more when the teacher is the same race as them which would suggest that segregation should lead to better results.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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Also, you do realize research has shown students learn more when the teacher is the same race as them which would suggest that segregation should lead to better results.

If the only effect of segregation was that people had teachers of their own race that might be correct. Since even the slightest understanding of the history of segregated schools tells us how wrong that is, I have no idea why you would try to make such a stupid argument.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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If the only effect of segregation was that people had teachers of their own race that might be correct. Since even the slightest understanding of the history of segregated schools tells us how wrong that is, I have no idea why you would try to make such a stupid argument.

If you really cared about improving the outcomes of minority students research shows the way to do is segregated schools with minority teachers.

Putting black students in a white school is not going to magically make them learn.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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If you really cared about improving the outcomes of minority students research shows the way to do is segregated schools with minority teachers.

Putting black students in a white school is not going to magically make them learn.

This is of course wildly incorrect; the research shows no such thing. I will chalk this up in the 'marriage, sexuality, gender' category of things you babble about without understanding.

Students learn better when taught by someone who shares a culture with them. Curriculum is also best when it can be made culturally relevant to the students learning it. As I said earlier, if those were the only effects of school segregation that could be correct. Even a 5th grader's understanding of history shows that it is not the only effect of school segregation however.

Considering how little you appear to have learned, I'm not sure what makes you think you have any input into the matter.