Operatory and Front Desk Computers for Office

[piotrgurin]

Okay my parents are opening a dental office and we talked to this company that supply everything that clinics need (consulting too).
Anyways they want to do teh comptuers for us, and here are the specs and prices they gave us.

Now i'd love to build all the comptuers but I don't feel that comfortable yet and was thinking instead of just building 2 front desk computers and letting them do the operatory and server comps.

Server: $2,500.00
Pentium 3.2 GHZ
Intel D865PERL ATX DDR Mobo
Adaptec 1210SA RAID level 1 card
2 x 80 GB 7200 RPM Seagatle
1 GM DDR RAM
Windows 2003 SERVER software
16 x DVD ROM
Floppy
65k modem
Nvidia Geforce MX400 128MB AGP
Intel NIC
1 Year onsite Service

in the operatory rooms were going to have 1 comp and 2 monitors (1 for doc and 1 for patcient)
Will play educational videos for patcients while they are seated and also show them interoral photos.
I priced out these parts on newegg and it came to about $975.
So its fair to say they should make about 20% on parts and also some money for the service right?

Operatory Computers: $1500 Each
Pentium 4 3.06ghx w/ 800 fsb
Intel D865GLC Micro ATX DDR Mobo w/ LAN
40 HD 72000 Segate
512 DDR Ram
Winddows XP Pro
DVD rom
Flopy
Sound card SB Live 5.1
Nivida Geforce FX6200 Personal Cinema 128 MB AGP
Intel Nic
1 Year onsite Service

 

[shoRunner]

those are some terrible prices on computer, but what you have to think about is if you are able to do the support and configuration necessary to keep everything up and running as it should. you may want to see if they or anyother company will provide support if you provide the computers if you aren't comfortable providing it.

as far as the prices go on the computer, you could almost shave $1000 off each(or even more if you went with a linux server software) and build a computer that is equally as powerful.

 

[piotrgurin]

yea, the only good thing with going with them is that they are supposably really good with support and its really important that someone can be there when something goes wrong since the office is going to be 3 hours from where i live.

I can still negotiate with them on the specs and the price, so mabye u guys can give me some suggestions?

 

[Mickey21]

Ummm, dude sorry to say, but you are better off getting a Dell (or set of that is)... Yes, slogan likeness intended...

Those prices seem a bit way over... No wait, they are way over... (I was trying to be nice)...

I would run not walk to the next fair deal... Just order some Dells and be done with it... Your wallet will thank you...

 

[Mickey21]

Originally posted by: piotrgurin
yea, the only good thing with going with them is that they are supposably really good with support and its really important that someone can be there when something goes wrong since the office is going to be 3 hours from where i live.

On this note, find some local geek and pay him hourly to do it (Usually about 25-35 per hour). IT support cannot be substituted with some computer support from a warranty. They WILL want to start charging you for stuff. Otherwise Dell support can help for most simple things. And if all else fails, see your local computer store in house tech repair (sometimes there are good ones )....

 

[piotrgurin]

dohhhhhhh, this is a really tuff problem. heh.

The thing that scared me first was that the operatory and front desk computers they speced out only had 512 ram. wtf up with that.

 

[piotrgurin]

Any1 know anything about these video cards?

 

[AmberClad]

OMG, now that's a ripoff. Just buy a handful of Dells (3 for maybe $1000) or HPs and a copy of Windows 2003 Server for a few hundred. Why in the world did they recommend a GeForce 6200 for looking at photos and watching videos? Onboard would do fine.

 

[imported_Kensai]

Wow.. That's an insane ripoff..

Old overpriced equipment there..

At least be nice and get DDR2 based systems with the 915 or 925 chipsets..

~You don't need discrete sound
~You don't need discrete graphics
~You don't need discrete LAN
~Do you really need a Personal Cinema card? (TV tuner stuff)
~The hell do you need XP Pro? 95% of the world don't touch the extra features over XP Home.
~Do you really need a floppy?

 

[FlyingPenguin]

Okay, many of my clients are dentists and yes if you buy the computers from the practice management software supplier they're rediculously over priced. You can always save money buying your own direct from Dell.

Don't even think about building your own rigs. You really won't save any money, you'll be in for a lot of needless pain, and you definately want a reliable rig for the server.

You usually DO NOT need a server OS so you can save a lot of money there. Most of the dental management software does not require a server OS (and the software publisher actually usually prefers you don't use a server OS). All my dental clients are running Win2K PRo or WinXP Pro on their "servers". That saves a big chunk of change for the OS purchase and also for the supplemental software (you don't need expensive server compliant backup software and antivirus software).

Keep in mind that you can buy a Dell server WITHOUT an OS installed (since Dell doesn't configure servers with Pro versions of Windows) and just buy an OEM copy of WinXP Pro and install it yourself. You can also buy a Dell workstation with Pro and a Raid 1 setup.

I see nothing in your post about an X-Ray scanner. If your office is going digital I assume you're also using a digital X-Ray system? If so, most of them use a sensor that requires a PCMCIA slot in the operatory computer, and the technical requirments are usually rather stiff. There's actually only one manufacturer that makes a front panel PCMCIA card reader for desktops that's compatible with most X-Ray sensors and it's made by Elan although it's sold by a couple of different companies under different names. The one I use is from Synchrotech for $109: http://www.synchrotech.com/products/card-rw_33.html
If you buy it from the digital X-Ray company it's usually around $250.

Another poster asked about a whether you really need a personal cinema card. It depends on whether you're using an inter-oral camera. Many of my clients use them, and the requirments are rather stiff. You need a video capture card that meets the strict guidlines of the software. You don't have the luxury of using hardware that's not recommended by the software publisher.

What management software are they going to use? I'm very familiar with Eaglesoft and most of my clients use Dexis for digital X-Rays. Whatever they're using you need a nice beefy server, you definately want RAID 1 and you need a reliable daily backup system (I recommend DVD-R backups). You definately want to archive your backups to to the possibility of data corruption (been there, done that). I have my clients use CD-RW DVDs monday thru thursday and then burn an archive backup on fridays onto a DVD-R and file it away.

 

[piotrgurin]

OMG I love you flyingpenguin.

I like the rest of you guys too..... hehhee.e............
Man the internet is great! Now i can show this thread to the people in charge of the moneys and have them see for themselves whats going on.
Also what are the chances that someone is soo familar with what i'm doing in such a narrow field is online to see my post. Pretty awsome stufff.! 8)

I agree with Kensai that the hardware specs aren't very pretty.
But as flying penguin mentioned i am worried that buying from another company the hardware won't meet the specs for the equipment we will be using (inter oral cam, x-ray, etc).
I definatly want to build the 2 front desk comps just because i like the challenge and like to play, and gives me an excuse to upgrade my own pc, muahahaha.
Buying from a big company like dell would work too, but i really dislike dell so i guess it would have to be ibm or someone.?

I guess the biggest question/problem aside from compatibility is service. Since this is a business we have to keep these things running 24/7. Setting everything up is another big challenge, much more so than repairs and maitenence. I am not skilled/ knowledgable enough to ssetup everything. So if we didn't go wtih PATERSON for the computers i guess i would have to hire someone who knows his shiat to do everything????

Btw the dental pactice software we will be using will most likely be EAGLESOFT! yeaaaaaaaaaa 8) lol



Oh btw, the prices i showed you guys are down alot!. They were a few hundered more b4 i had a meeting with them and showed them how much it costs to make their comps from neweeg, and yelled at them. hehehe

oh yea penguin u said in your post that i shouldn't build on my own b/c i wouldn't save money. Could you clarify plz, i'm alittle confused. the comp they are offering for 1500 comes to 950 on new egg. Why would i save the difference? not that i want to build all thecomps, just wondering....

 

[FlyingPenguin]

You wouldn't save much money over purchasing direct from an OEM vendor like Dell is what I meant. You can usually buy a Dimension 3000 with XP Pro and 512Mb for under $900 SHIPPED with a 17" LCD. Not to mention other issues like dependability. Sure you might be able to build a rig even cheaper yourself, but consider your time and the possibility that you might have stability issues with a rig due to minor RAM timing issues, some wacky BIOS issue, some goofy incompatibility between component. You unpack that OEM computer and you're getting a system that's guaranteed to work, and if it doesn't they'll rush out another to replace it.

Get over your hate for Dell. For small business clients you can't beat it. They're prices are reasonable, the quality of the components is generally good, and unlike most other OEM vendors they offer on-site warranty service. Even if you're doing repairs yourself, you'll have a part advance RMA'd to you 2 day shipping. Gateway would be my #2 choice.

I don't do builds anymore - haven't for years, it's not worth the aggravation. My clients pay me to help them order new Dells.

Keep in mind even if you buy a OEM system, you may still run into compatibility issues with the special hardware and software. I've had a lot of grief with the inter-oral camera software (Dexis). It's VERY fussy about the video capture hardware you use.

This is why most dental offices bite the bullet and pay the hefty price for a turnkey operatory system from Paterson (frankly any box will do for the front desk and server when it comes down to it). Yeah you're paying throguh the nose but you're paying for the guarantee that all the hardware works with all the software. There's also so many little pitfalls - you need to make sure all your LCD monitors have VESA 100 mounts, for instance, since you'll likely need/want to hang them from the wall. VESA 100 is a standard for wall mounting systems - you can find anything from plain wall mounts to articulating arms that work with VESA 100.

As for setting up everything, yes it's a challenge. Patterson has very good tech support though. Feel free to call them for ANYTHING. It certainly wouldn't hurt to have someone involved who's setup a Patterson system before. Ask around other dentists in the area for references. You'll probably find a free-lance tech like me who's familiar with it. If you were in central Florida I'd give you my number.

One of my clients has his own computer tech (relative) and they only call me in for the things the relative can't handle (network administration for instance) and he takes care of everything else.

Your biggest concern is stability and disaster recovery. BACKUP, BACKUP, BACKUP! Don't screw around with tapes, use DVDs and some backup software that can run on a schedule. I generally use Stomp's BackupMyPC. Be aware that it doesn't run on a server OS, but you can always run it off a workstation (and since it sounds like you're only going to have 2 operatories you really don't need a server OS anyway).

You MUST do a weekly archive. Why? Eaglesoft uses an SQL database, and SQL while a very powerful database is prone to corruption issues. I've had a situation where an archive kept one client from losing weeks worth of data.

Since your server will be mission critical you may also want to consider a backup server. I have one client who has one. The backup is setup just like the main server and every night at 3am a batch file runs that copies all the data over to the backup server's drive (this in addition to the nightly DVD data backups). If the server dies all I need to do is change the backup server's NETBIOS network name to match the server's and we're up and running again off the backup with data that's no more than 24 hours old.

When I do Eaglesoft upgrades every year (which can sometimes be very frustrating - that's usually when you find out if you have a corrupt database) I leave the backup server alone and only upgrade the main server and workstations (and I always do this on a Friday afternoon/evening so I have the whole weekend to pick up the pieces). Anything goes wrong after the upgrade I can switch over to the backup server and install the old version of Eaglesoft back on the workstations. I usually don't upgrade the backup for a week or two until I'm sure the upgrade is stable.

Another issue to sweat over is security. If you're comfortable with network administration you should bring someone in who is. You need to lock down the network - all shared resources need secure passwords. If you use wireless it needs to be encrypted. You need to keep the fools on the front desk from downloading every piece of spyware on the planet - lots of key-loggers out there now. Firewalls are a must.

 

[piotrgurin]

I've been taking notes. 8)

Now for the front desk computers do you think i should get 17" or 19".
I dunno if bigger is necessarilly better?

Here's the lcd i was thinking for the 2 front desk comps. Its wicked sexy. heheh
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824005035

 

[piotrgurin]

i wonder if there are any articles that show if employee satiscation with 19'' over 17''. lol

 

[xgsound]

Once again Flying Penguin hits one out of the park.

What you want to end up with here is a running Dental Office that can handle current and future dental equipment. The particular computers (and thier price) are a secondary consideration. If the turn-key provider is going to set up the computers and make all equipment operational and additionally provide the repair services a business requires; I would consider using the equipment (hardware and software) that they've found compatible and are best prepared to support.

Rather than look for a lower price on the computer equipment, get initial setup of all the equipment and software and 2 followup visits included at purchase thru thier local provider. Since you're a 3 hour drive away, it would be good to have other direct support avaliable.


Jim

 

[FlyingPenguin]

xgsound: Just curious, are you my ex-wife?

I thought I made it clear that he was in over his head and that the reason offices do pay the (seemingly) high prices for a turnkey system is that you get something delivered to your door that's guaranteed to work.

He seems hell bent to try to do it himself anyway so I gave him my input.

 

[piotrgurin]

oh no, i definatly don't wana do it all myself. just the 2 front desk comps.

The rest i still got to figure out, but this thread (you guys) have been veryyyyyy helpfull.

 

[FlyingPenguin]

Once it's all setup it's pretty easy to maintain (just remember to BACKUP!). The nail biting comes once a year when you update the software and then you find out if your database is corrupt when it fails the conversion process. Just prepare for the worst - always have a backup plan in case the upgrade fails. Make sure you can at least put everything back the way it was so the office can continue running.

 

[xgsound]

Originally posted by: FlyingPenguin
xgsound: Just curious, are you my ex-wife?

I thought I made it clear that he was in over his head and that the reason offices do pay the (seemingly) high prices for a turnkey system is that you get something delivered to your door that's guaranteed to work.

He seems hell bent to try to do it himself anyway so I gave him my input.

Yes you made it clear. Hitting one out of the park is a home run. I not only agree with what you said, but think that he couldn't get better or more insightful advice for any price. The only reason I posted was to pass on an ATTA BOY that was once again richly deserved. Then I thought I should add something for the OP or not post at all. Since you had covered everything so completely all I had left was to reaffirm the idea that he might be over his head and why.



Jim

 

[bulbasuar]

Bump... This is just a really nice read, i encourage other people to do so...

 

[FlyingPenguin]

Heh. Sorry xsound. I misinterpreted your first post.

 

[piotrgurin]

well were opening jan 5th and i only have 1 computer so far for the front desk that i built........

i've been so busy with other areas i've let this slide too far.

Hmmm,, time to get nervous