Operation "Shhhhhhh!" - Plan of action!

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A

Aeradin

Junior Member
Feb 25, 2002
20
0
0
So I asked people for advice here asking for suggestions on how to quiet down my Praetorian based Hovercraft. I've come up with my plan of action for now, and I wanted to fly it by you guys one more time.

First, the current system again...
Cooler Master Praetorian Case
ABit AV8 Socket 939 Motherboard
Athlon 64 FX-53 with Retail HSF
Antec TruePower 480W PSU
eVGA GeForce 6800 Ultra
1GB Crucial PC3200 SDRAM
2 Seagate 7200RPM SATA-150 Drives in RAID 0
16x Samsung DVD-ROM
8x NEC DVD+/-RW/Dual Layer
Audigy 2

I've identified the biggest noise sources in my case as the rear case fan, CPU HSF, and the 6800 Ultra. Here's what I'm planning on trying to reduce my noise.

FIRST PASS:
1. Replace all of the 80mm case fans with Panaflo FBA08A12M fans.
2. Replace the stock CPU HSF with a Zalman CNPS7000B-Cu heatsink. I intend to use Arctic Silver 5 thermal compound, and isopropyl rubbing alcohol to clean the CPU before application.

If noise is still unacceptable.
3. Replace the Praetorian case with a quieter case.

If noise is still unacceptable.
4. Replace the heatsink and fan on the GeForce 6800 Ultra with an NV Silencer 5. I don't know why I don't want to do this, but I'm just a little bit scared about replacing the HSF on a $500 video card. (I don't know why it doesn't bother me on a $900+ CPU...)

So, here are my questions for verification:
0. Am I smoking crack? Does this plan sound bad?
1. Are there any recommendations for case fan mounting gromets? I have heard people make reference to them, but I haven't been able to find any. Is there a place to buy the little rubber acoustic decoupling thingies?
2. If the Panaflo's are 3 pin fans, and I only have one case fan connector on my mobo, what should I do? I'd like to go with a fan controller so I can slow them down. Any suggestions?
3. Is isopropyl sufficient for removing the thermal grease on my CPU from the original HSF? I remember reading a review of some grease remover, and I can't seem to find it.
4. If this isn't enough to quiet things down, I'd love to see someone show me the best case for quiet operation. (Yeah, I realize there's no single right answer.)

Thanks for the help so far guys. I'd like to order this stuff this weekend, and see what I can do.

Aeradin
 
S

Sonic587

Golden Member
May 11, 2004
1,146
0
0
You don't want the panaflo 12M. Those are medium speed, and louder. You want the L1a's.

Get them from here. You can have them modded to 4pin if you'd like. I've bought from this place before, they beat Newegg on shipping times :thumbsup: Their resellerrating is just as good, too.
 
O

Operandi

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,508
0
0
Sounds like a solid plan, however you defiantly want to do #4 before you do #3. You can make just about any case quiet or silent with the right case fans and HS/F. But no mater how quiet a case may be you'll never be able to completely mask the sound of the 6800 ultra.

As far as the 3 pin panaflows you can plug them all into the motherboard header with Y splitters and have them thermally controlled via Abit's software or Speedfan, its far better then a hardware fan controller.

Isopropyl alcohol is fine, the higher the concentration the better, 90% I believe is what you'd want to look for.
 
Nebor

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
*flashes badge* Silencing expert on the scene, everyone take a step back.

First off, that case just isn't the greatest for silencing due to the 80mm fans.

Like another post said, you want 12Ls or L1A fans, not anything with an M in it. You also want a fan controller, because L1As at full speed are still loud.

As long as you're going to get a new CPU heatsink, go all out and get the new Thermalright XP-120, I think the AMD64 version is out now. It's use of a 120mm should allow you a whole new level of silence. The Zalman 7000Cu just isn't that quiet (I have one.)

Definitely get the new VGA Silencer, stock video coolers are loud loud loud.

Get an extra L1A (or two) and swap out the fans in that power supply. Or get a new power supply, Antec power supplies are loud.

Go ahead and get the rubber fan mounts, those don't cost much, so they're worth it. Also look into getting some sorbothane to sit your hard drives on. This will totally isolate them from your case, and HDs are big on vibrations.

So I'll come full circle to the case, why does it have 2 intakes and 1 exhaust? I would say don't bother with the intakes at all, intake fans usually don't affect temperatures more than 2 degrees, but make MUCH more noise because they're at the front of the case. Just use a single exhaust and your PSU fan. Plus your VGA Silencer will exhaust most of the video card heat.

Post back with any questions.
 
G

GnomeCop

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2002
3,863
0
76
its too bad you already got the evga ultra.
I got the leadtek 6800 ultra and it didn't increase the noise of my *next* to silent system
 
K

kparis

Member
Aug 28, 2002
38
0
0
i agree with a lot of the posts but i have mixed feelings about some of the posts,

the fan code makse sure you get the L1A as the other s told u

first of all just a little thought, sound does not increase in a linear way, so really if you have 2 20db sources you are NOT going to get 40bd of sound, but something around the 21/22db. Therefore if you take off the intake fans you arent really reducing sound all that much, AND you are removing the only cooling the HDDs have in that case, also then since there ill be negative pressure in the case air will be sucked in from every unsealed area filling them up with dust (that includes Optical drives!) - so imho removing front fans is not a good idea.

Fan controller idea - excellent, you can manually adjust each fan and find the 'sweet spot' when you dont hear them and it still is throwing an acceptable amount of air. I'd reccomend getting the aerogate 2 since it matches your case and is all digital = nice :)

Thermalright XP120 vs Zalman CNPS7000 - yes the thermalright is better in every way -lighter quieter and cools better, the only downside is that it doesnt fit in all mobos, if the AV8 has OTES you will HAVE to remove it to install the heatsink. The Zalman is still a quiet heatsink though so if the XP120 doesnt fit i'd recommend the zalman all the way.

Definitely reverse points 3 and 4, first change the cooler and then the case - as i said a friend of mine has a paetorian and it is VERY silent.

Yes some antec powersupplies are loud, you could either replace the fans with panaflos or else try find a quiet powersupply - ideally find one you can control the fan speed of. eg My thermaltake butterfly is dead quiet when i have my airconditioning on, at higher temps it defaults to higher fan speeds and sounds like a turbine. Try geta powersupply with 120/92mm fans.

regarding the fan silencers i've found these to be MUCH more effective 80mm fan noise dampener they also make them for the power supply Link Here

if you do not have a window in your case you can install some of this sound dampening material which is VERY effective Link Here

one other thing make sure you dont leave cds you arent using in the cd/dvd drives. Some drives tend to remain spinning with the disc in and opticals are quite noisy.

regs
Kurt
 
A

Aeradin

Junior Member
Feb 25, 2002
20
0
0
I'm going to go ahead and get the VGA Silencer regardless of my case decision. However, after reading this review at InsaneTek, with the added new info at the end from Arctic Cooling, I think I have to wait until they release them with support for double bracket cards. I don't want to have to Dremel any part of that card for any reason.

Now, regarding the Thermalright XP-120 vs. the Zalman CNPS7000B-Cu... Someone had lead me to believe that I would have trouble with capacitor clearance on my motherboard if I went with the XP-120. That's a big honkin' HSF. But, if I could be sure that it would actually fit in my case, and not knock any important components off of my board, I'd do it. Think it's worth a shot?

Back to the case. I've said it in other posts, but I didn't really know what I was buying when I bought the Praetorian. I bought it based on the high-end buyer's guide here, and I didn't really have a good understanding of just how much noise it would generate. If there's one thing I've learned with this "build my own PC" experiment, it's that noise is a much more important issue to me than I ever realized. However, that being said, I am willing to replace the Praetorian. If there's a clear winner in the "quiet case with good cooling and 120mm fans" category, I'll buy it. It's just that it seems like a holy war of sorts. The Temjin 5 looks nice, and the noise looks good compared to all the other cases reviewed here recently, but I don't have a good feel for how that stacks up against my Praetorian. Also, the Lian Li PC-6070 looks good from a noise perspective. But, again, I don't know how it would stack up against the Praetorian. Please, if there's a clear-cut awesome quiet case that will definitely be quieter than the Praetorian, let me know. I'd like to make that decision before I spend all the money on quiet 80mm fans.

Aeradin
 
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Aeradin

Junior Member
Feb 25, 2002
20
0
0
Kurt, I think you posted as I was responding.

Good links! Those fan silencers look much better than the ones I was looking at. Plus, I was trying to find a place that sold that kind of sound dampening material. That looks perfect. I don't have a case window, and I tend to go for the "sleek subtle black case" look rather than the flashier approach. I like a lot of the custom cases I've seen people make, but I always felt like the laser light shows would annoy me after not too long.

Now, here's my stupid question regarding the XP-120 on my motherboard. When you say OTES, do you mean "Outside Thermal Exhause System?" Like, a cowling from the CPU that blows air straight outside? I don't have anything like that on my mobo. Or...am I mis-interpreting the meaning of OTES?

Aeradin
 
Z

Zepper

Elite Member
May 1, 2001
18,998
0
0
This place Jab-tech sells those silicone fan and PSU dampers and kits (Vantec brand) for less than most others. You get two 80mm fan dampers for $4 (rather than one for $3.)., etc. Avoid the Antec "Noise Killer" kit as it is much cheaper to buy Vantec ala carte... Search on Vantec.
.bh.
 
P

Pauli

Senior member
Oct 14, 1999
836
0
0
Originally posted by: Nebor
*flashes badge* Silencing expert on the scene, everyone take a step back.

First off, that case just isn't the greatest for silencing due to the 80mm fans.

Like another post said, you want 12Ls or L1A fans, not anything with an M in it. You also want a fan controller, because L1As at full speed are still loud.

As long as you're going to get a new CPU heatsink, go all out and get the new Thermalright XP-120, I think the AMD64 version is out now. It's use of a 120mm should allow you a whole new level of silence. The Zalman 7000Cu just isn't that quiet (I have one.)

Definitely get the new VGA Silencer, stock video coolers are loud loud loud.

Get an extra L1A (or two) and swap out the fans in that power supply. Or get a new power supply, Antec power supplies are loud.

Go ahead and get the rubber fan mounts, those don't cost much, so they're worth it. Also look into getting some sorbothane to sit your hard drives on. This will totally isolate them from your case, and HDs are big on vibrations.

So I'll come full circle to the case, why does it have 2 intakes and 1 exhaust? I would say don't bother with the intakes at all, intake fans usually don't affect temperatures more than 2 degrees, but make MUCH more noise because they're at the front of the case. Just use a single exhaust and your PSU fan. Plus your VGA Silencer will exhaust most of the video card heat.

Post back with any questions.
Click to expand...

Nebor, you really have to stop spreading misleading information about the Zalman 7000. You state that it's not that quiet, but you usually fail to mention that you run it at the full 12V speed. Of course it's not quiet at full speed! The 7000alcu is VERY quiet when you run it at <1400 RPMs AND IT STILL COOLS VERY WELL! That's what so good about it -- it's a good low-flow HSF. In my system (2.8Ghz P4 @ 3.28Ghz), the difference in Idle temps when between 1300RPM and 12V speed (about 2700RPM) is only 1-3C. Under heavy load, it's about 5C more --- nothing to worry about. You do a disservice to everyone here to proclaim yourself a "Silencing expert" and then fail to mention this vital information.

Why do you continue to run you Zalman at 12V? It sounds to me like you're a bit paranoid because your Motherboard over-reports temps and you're a bit gun-shy about backing down the fan speed.

I do agree that the XP-120 would be better if he can get it to fit, but for the price, right now, the Zalman can't be beat.

BTW, check out the latest Heatsink Recommendation page at SPCR. The Zalman receives high marks, just a notch below the XP-120. There are no shortage of SPCR members who heartily recommend the 7000 as a quiet CPU cooler.
 
A

Aeradin

Junior Member
Feb 25, 2002
20
0
0
Well, I actually just got a response from Thermalright's support line regarding whether or not the XP-120 will fit on an AV8. Here's what they said:

To fit XP-120 on your AV8 board you will have to either tilt capacitors or lose the fist row of the memory slots.

Option-1: To have heatpipe loop face the capcitors (on the I/O gasket side).
The heatpipe will go between the first and second capacitors from the left and push them away by 2~3mm. No matter what people say about tilting capacitors to successfully seat heatsink, there are risks related with tilting capacitors and you do this at your own risk.

Option-2: To have heatpipe loop face the memory slots.
The heatpipes will interfere with the Dimm #1. It will be okay if you use only #2, #3, and#4.

I'm not down with bending caps, but I might be ok with moving my 2 DIMMs of RAM to slots 3 and 4. The only thing that bothers me about that is the fact that, basically, I won't be able to upgrade beyond my current 1GB without changing the HSF again. Still torn between the Zalman and the XP-120. :p

Aeradin
 
AyashiKaibutsu

AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
9,306
3
81
You could get one of those huge tower hsf that I've been drooling at the past few days and stick some quiet fans on it.
 
O

Operandi

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,508
0
0
Originally posted by: Aeradin
Well, I actually just got a response from Thermalright's support line regarding whether or not the XP-120 will fit on an AV8. Here's what they said:

<i>To fit XP-120 on your AV8 board you will have to either tilt capacitors or lose the fist row of the memory slots.

Option-1: To have heatpipe loop face the capcitors (on the I/O gasket side).
The heatpipe will go between the first and second capacitors from the left and push them away by 2~3mm. No matter what people say about tilting capacitors to successfully seat heatsink, there are risks related with tilting capacitors and you do this at your own risk.

Option-2: To have heatpipe loop face the memory slots.
The heatpipes will interfere with the Dimm #1. It will be okay if you use only #2, #3, and#4.</i>

I'm not down with bending caps, but I might be ok with moving my 2 DIMMs of RAM to slots 3 and 4. The only thing that bothers me about that is the fact that, basically, I won't be able to upgrade beyond my current 1GB without changing the HSF again. Still torn between the Zalman and the XP-120. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif" border="0">

Aeradin
Click to expand...

Be aware that there are other options out there besides the XP-120 and Zalman....

This Alpha and this Thermalright are both at the top of the field and work very well woth low powered fans and are excellent choices for quiet/silent cooling.
 
K

kparis

Member
Aug 28, 2002
38
0
0
Hey aeradin,

really there isnt much of a problem with the XP120 vs Zalman 7000, either way you lean you get a great cooler. I've personally owned both and as i said before, the XP120 is a better heatsink (better cooling, slightly quieter - depending on what fan you choose, lighter) so if you dont mind losing a ram slot and paying a bit more then by all means get the XP120

unless you use some VERY heave photoshop or CAD work i doubt you'll need to go above 1gb of ram.

on the other hand if you want to save some $$$ and still get great cooling with very very silent operation the Zalman is a good option.

also i agree with 0roo0roo, your first bet should be to get a fan controller and try see exactly where the sound is coming from

regs
Kurt
 
B

BehindEnemyLines

Senior member
Jul 24, 2000
979
0
76
How does the Arctic Cooling Pro TC Silent (thermal controlled) compared with the L1a (at 7V, 9V &amp; 12V)? What's a good 92mm fan (for front intake)?
 
Nebor

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
Nebor, you really have to stop spreading misleading information about the Zalman 7000. You state that it's not that quiet, but you usually fail to mention that you run it at the full 12V speed.
Click to expand...

You really have to stop spreading misleading information about... me. My 7000Cu fan spends 95% of it's life between 5v and 7v. I only turn it up when I'm playing a game (rare.) I don't know how you thought you'd get away with saying something that just isn't true. And why on earth you'd think I would be running a fan @ 12v when I have a modified power supply hooked up to a fan controller, and $600 worth of silencing gear into this PC.
 
Nebor

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
For the OP, look at the Lian Li v1000, v1100 and v2000. All very very classy cases with 120mm fans, which are a big improvement.
 
D

Degrador

Senior member
Jun 15, 2004
281
0
0
Another good case for cooling is the CM Stacker, however it's big and heavy. If these aren't problems, then I'd certainly be going with that (actually, I did go with that - and love it :)).

I also own an XP-120 and love that too, however I need to get a new fan for it. The heatsink can only accept fans without screw guards on them (without those vertical columns some fans have where the screws go).

And fan controller is a good idea too. Superflower Fan Master would be my recommendation there.
 
P

Pauli

Senior member
Oct 14, 1999
836
0
0
Originally posted by: Nebor
Nebor, you really have to stop spreading misleading information about the Zalman 7000. You state that it's not that quiet, but you usually fail to mention that you run it at the full 12V speed.
Click to expand...

You really have to stop spreading misleading information about... me. My 7000Cu fan spends 95% of it's life between 5v and 7v. I only turn it up when I'm playing a game (rare.) I don't know how you thought you'd get away with saying something that just isn't true. And why on earth you'd think I would be running a fan @ 12v when I have a modified power supply hooked up to a fan controller, and $600 worth of silencing gear into this PC.
Click to expand...

First off Nebor, I'd like to apologize for saying that you run your 7000 at 12V. I thought I'd read that from you in a previous post, but I guess was wrong about that.

That said, I still believe that you are shortchanging the Zalman. At 7V it is still pretty audible in an otherwise quiet system. At 5V (< 1350RPMs) it is very, very, quiet. At least mine is. And I don't hear any clicking from mine at that voltage. Plus, it still cools my P4 2.8C@3.28 sufficiently well. I don't know how many of these CPUs you've tested, but my experience (only one HSF) differs from yours (or your ears are much more sensitive than mine). In any case, the Zalman 7000 is a very good choice for 99.9% of the users here, and this opinion is supported by almost every SPCR member.
 
C

Carl Uman

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2000
6,008
2
81
I don't remember anymore what review it was but they had both the all cu 7000 and the alcu 7000 and the alcu did better (he didn't know why I don't either but thought I'd point it out for you to at least look into). Does anyone else have a place that has reviewed both?
 
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