Opening a NYC lemonade stand

[xBiffx]

We can't have kids learning that kind of nonsense. We need to teach them that the way you get ahead is having government regulate and do everything for you, make sure you have no initiative at all, the gubmint will provide everything you need.

The way to success is regulation. Every good Prole knows this. How else do you keep the Party happy?

 

[fskimospy]

The way to success is regulation. Every good Prole knows this. How else do you keep the Party happy?

All of these regulations for business seemed awfully reasonable to me. As others have said, this was some sort of attempt by Stossel to conflate a kid's lemonade stand with an argument against regulations that most people think are a pretty good idea.

Offhand, are you trying to make a 1984 reference? Did you know that in 1984 the proles were in fact largely left alone? It was the members of the Outer Party who were regulated to death.

 

[xBiffx]

All of these regulations for business seemed awfully reasonable to me. As others have said, this was some sort of attempt by Stossel to conflate a kid's lemonade stand with an argument against regulations that most people think are a pretty good idea.

Offhand, are you trying to make a 1984 reference? Did you know that in 1984 the proles were in fact largely left alone? It was the members of the Outer Party who were regulated to death.

If by left alone you meant constantly monitored to make sure every action was in the Party's best interest, then yes, I knew that. They could do what they wanted, as long as the Party approved. Is that what you mean by left alone and is that what you think good regulations are?

 

[fskimospy]

If by left alone you mean constantly monitored and watched to make sure every action was in the Party's best interest, then yes, I knew that.

Incorrect.

The proles were explicitly NOT monitored by the Party like the rest of society because they were viewed as beneath the requirement of surveillance due to their inability to understand the system or effectively organize. (well, at least they were subject to far less monitoring than anyone else) They were poor as dirt, but you could argue they lived better lives than those of the Outer Party because they were much more free from the onerous surveillance state.

So yes, largely left alone. That was the whole reason why Winston thought that they could be the source of a revolution because they hadn't had their humanity destroyed by the surveillance state.

 

[xBiffx]

Incorrect.

The proles were explicitly NOT monitored by the Party like the rest of society because they were viewed as beneath the requirement of surveillance due to their inability to understand the system or effectively organize. (well, at least they were subject to far less monitoring than anyone else) They were poor as dirt, but you could argue they lived better lives than those of the Outer Party because they were much more free from the onerous surveillance state.

So yes, largely left alone. That was the whole reason why Winston thought that they could be the source of a revolution because they hadn't had their humanity destroyed by the surveillance state.

Your idea of "left alone" is absurdly amusing. Given your liberal tendencies I can't say that I am surprised. Ok, so there wasn't someone telling them what to do each and every minute of their lives but their lives/lifestyle had already decided for them. They had zero freedom in getting to pick and choose what direction their lives went in. Everything had been predefined and filtered for them. Sure, they were left alone. Kind of like how you leave a dog once he is firmly secured with auger and tether. He is free to roam and do as he pleases, within the limits you have setup for him.

 

[fskimospy]

Your idea of "left alone" is absurdly amusing. Given your liberal tendencies I can't say that I am surprised. Ok, so there wasn't someone telling them what to do each and every minute of their lives but their lives/lifestyle had already decided for them. They had zero freedom in getting to pick and choose what direction their lives went in. Everything had been predefined and filtered for them. Sure, they were left alone. Kind of like how you leave a dog once he is firmly secured with auger and tether. He is free to roam and do as he pleases, within the limits you have setup for him.

Oh my fucking god, is everything filtered through some crazy 'libruls R evil' thing? My post was telling you that it was funny of you to mention proles in a 1984 reference about government regulation because they were the least regulated of all 3 classes, not that it was a good idea.

Seriously, what is wrong with you?

 

[PokerGuy]

All of these regulations for business seemed awfully reasonable to me. As others have said, this was some sort of attempt by Stossel to conflate a kid's lemonade stand with an argument against regulations that most people think are a pretty good idea.

Some of the regulations might be perfectly reasonable, but as with just about all bureaucracy, over time logic and common sense give way to procedure and process. Rules and regs can't be a "one size fits all" effort, or they become illogical and inefficient. Why does someone selling lemonade need to know about the toxins in fugu? They don't, but the regs don't make that kind of distinction. Regulation is very much needed, but you have to carefully balance regulation against efficiency, logic and the potential to stifle innovation and competition.

In the minds of a typical bureaucrat, the process is more important than the results. That's how you end up with kids getting arrested/ticketed for selling lemonade on the sidewalk in front of their house or child labor charges getting filed for a kid mowing lawns.

 

[xBiffx]

Oh my fucking god, is everything filtered through some crazy 'libruls R evil' thing? My post was telling you that it was funny of you to mention proles in a 1984 reference about government regulation because they were the least regulated of all 3 classes, not that it was a good idea.

Seriously, what is wrong with you?

Nope, just everything from you. You claim that regulations are awfully reasonable. I am simply stating the contrary. As to the Prole reference, its telling that you see them as being "left alone". As I stated, I don't see it that way. The same way, perhaps, that regulations are awfully reasonable to you whereas I see them as trampling of people's rights.

 

[fskimospy]

Nope, just everything from you. You claim that regulations are awfully reasonable. I am simply stating the contrary. As to the Prole reference, its telling that you see them as being "left alone". As I stated, I don't see it that way. The same way, perhaps, that regulations are awfully reasonable to you whereas I see them as trampling of people's rights.

Left alone in comparison to the other members of that society. Jesus Christ. I would have thought that it was obvious that no one would be endorsing a 1984 surveillance state, but it is possible that I gave you too much credit. I'll be sure to spell everything out to you as if you were a child in the future.

I actually don't care about your views on these regulations as you have conclusively proven how little you understand how government works in the past. I was just trying to help you out with another area, popular fiction, that you might have more success with.

 

[ichy]

xBiffx:

I'm rather skeptical that you've even read 1984.

 

[xBiffx]

Left alone in comparison to the other members of that society. Jesus Christ. I would have thought that it was obvious that no one would be endorsing a 1984 surveillance state, but it is possible that I gave you too much credit. I'll be sure to spell everything out to you as if you were a child in the future.

I actually don't care about your views on these regulations as you have conclusively proven how little you understand how government works in the past. I was just trying to help you out with another area, popular fiction, that you might have more success with.

Keep talking down to people and insulting them. Your elitism is pretty disgusting. Seems like you know it all and are never wrong. Every thread with you in it becomes an I'm right and you are wrong, no matter the topic. But I digress.

Of course I don't think one regulation or two is going to turn us into 1984 tomorrow but the way things are going its very possible someday that it will be that way. Incrementalism accompanied by tolerance will be the death of the US. How's that go again "give them an inch and they will take a mile."

 

[xBiffx]

xBiffx:

I'm rather skeptical that you've even read 1984.

I admit its been a while since high school.