Open warfare between Intel & nVidia

Denithor

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2004
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Intel fires the first shot...

Now that the competitive scrap between Nvidia and Intel is officially out in the open, Intel has decided to unashamedly dish the dirt on Nvidia?s Ion platform. bit-tech has seen a document that Intel is sending out called "Nvidia Ion Competitive Positioning Guide," which details what Intel sees as the shortcomings of Nvidia?s pint sized PC platform.

The first point that Intel makes about Ion is that the chipset is nothing new, saying that it?s "rather a SKU of the existing MCP79M/MCP7A chipset family (branded in part as GeForce 9400M, GeForce 9400, GeForce 9300, GeForce 9100M G or GeForce 8200M G." Intel points out that "despite Nvidia?s continued execution and power problems with this chipset, Nvidia is partnering the same chipset with an Intel Atom processor and creating hype around what it calls the 'Ion Platform'."

A major problem here, according to Intel, is that Nvidia is "attempting to re-use an integrated graphics chipset designed for the notebook and desktop system price points into the netbook and nettop system price points. This in turn leads to higher costs as well as high power consumption," says the company.

Intel also claims that Nvidia has overstated the amount of interest in Ion from PC builders, saying that "Nvidia claims that many OEMs are exploring the Ion, but as of this writing, no customer has publicly disclosed plans to design Ion-based products." The document also quotes a number of tech sites who have detailed Nvidia?s chipset manufacturing issues, as well as those who have criticised the Ion?s power consumption and performance.

As well as this, Intel has also taken Nvidia?s claims about the Ion?s benefits over Intel?s own Atom platforms. In response to Nvidia?s claims about HD video decoding, Intel says that "Intel offers full Hi-Def video decode with HW acceleration with the off-roadmap Mobile Intel GN40 Express Chipset." The company also refers to an article on the Tech Report, saying that "Preliminary press reviews indicate Nvidia?s Ion HD playback may not be as good as Nvidia claims."

Intel also claims that its own Atom platform will have longer battery life than an Ion-based system, quoting a comparative TDP of 8W against Ion?s 15.5W. Finally, to combat Nvidia?s claims that the Ion has superior video transcoding and gaming abilities, Intel simply says that "neither gaming nor video transcoding are relevant to netbook and nettop users."

In closing, Intel says: "Don?t buy the hype around Nvidia Ion?it offers no advantages that an Intel platform cannot provide relevant to the Netbook and Nettop market segments." The company also claims that the forthcoming introduction of its new netbook and nettop platforms at the end of this year will mean that "the window of opportunity for Ion is very short."

Of course, you could also argue that Intel?s current Atom chipset is derived from its ageing 945 chipset, which makes the first argument a little redundant. However, Intel is clearly feeling threatened by Nvidia?s Ion platform if it feels the need to produce propaganda such as this. Is there a need for HD transcoding and gaming features on netbooks and nettops, or is Intel right to dismiss these features?


...and nVidia takes a swipe at Intel in response.

The Nvidia and Intel battle is now in full swing, with PowerPoint slides being sharpened and handbags placed in full public view. Following on from Intel?s anti-Ion propaganda document that we saw yesterday, Nvidia has retaliated with a PowerPoint presentation of its own, which is intended to answer some of Intel?s claims.

Like the Intel document, Nvidia?s presentation also takes a swipe at the ageing technology used by its competitor. One slide compares Intel?s "four-year-old three chip design" with Nvidia?s "modern two chip solution." This two-chip system, says Nvidia, provides 10x the performance while taking up 55 percent less space. The performance claim refers specifically to the Ion?s gaming abilities from its GPU with 16 stream processors.

Nvidia also points out that Ion is fully WHQL-certified by Microsoft for Windows Vista Home Premium, and that an Ion-based PC can perform real-time video transcoding tasks using CUDA, as well as having the ability to output 1080p HD video with 7.1 audio. However, the former has already been dismissed by Intel, which said that "neither gaming nor video transcoding are relevant to netbook and nettop users."

Interestingly, Nvidia claims that Intel?s next-generation Atom (codenamed Pineview) will ?force? customers to use Intel integrated graphics with what Nvidia describes as "minor improvements." This would explain why Nvidia is opening up its second-generation Ion platform to support VIA?s Nano CPU.

Nvidia also dismissed Intel?s claims about power consumption and battery life, saying that "peak power is a very poor measurement" that doesn?t represent real-world use of a netbook. To make its point, Nvidia published results from MobileMark 2007, which tests battery life using standard apps and video playback. The results showed that an Intel 945GSE-based system lasted for two hours, 40 minutes, while an Nvidia Ion system lasted for two hours, 31 minutes.

As with Intel?s document, Nvidia took the opportunity to publish a few quotes from the press, including one from DailyTech that says that Ion "Completely obliterates anything Intel can currently offer," and one from PC Perspective, which says that "any company not at least seriously considering adopting an ION platform design has no desire to be on the forefront of PC technology."


Boy, are things heating up or what?
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
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Ya . They are . Intel is right about this. If NV thinks it can produce a netbook without Intel Atom . Let them . Intel is right. They created and targeted a market, High end is not a part of this market , Graphics are good enough as Intel presents it .

NV should just produce something of their own . Than they can crow. Inside they desire to ride on Intel coat tails, Untel Cuda is completely ready . LOL . Intel cut them off as they should have. As NV's stated mission is to replace the CPU. So they ineffect declared war on AMD/ INTEL
 

Denithor

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2004
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Too bad AMD already announced they aren't going to go after the netbook market, if they could bring out a low power & effective cpu/chipset combo right now it would so shove a wrench in the spokes on Intel & nVidia's bikes.
 

Falloutboy

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2003
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Originally posted by: Denithor
Too bad AMD already announced they aren't going to go after the netbook market, if they could bring out a low power & effective cpu/chipset combo right now it would so shove a wrench in the spokes on Intel & nVidia's bikes.

it just seems to me all amd woudl have to do is do a die shrink of a single core A64 with a single channel memmory controller (basically take the old 754 socket chip) and pair it with a low power version of 780G and they would have ion beat.
 

Jabbernyx

Senior member
Feb 2, 2009
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Originally posted by: SunnyD
Nvidia already announced and demo'd Ion Nano... a 9400 chipset with a VIA Nano strapped onto it. People weren't impressed.
That sounds a little like a Ferrari with a golf cart engine inside :p
 

nyker96

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2005
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sometimes fight=love, maybe the next article will be the talks of NV+Intel merge. stay tuned :}
 

ilkhan

Golden Member
Jul 21, 2006
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Long as the platform can support aero, 720p h264, and 1080p if possible (video output to a TV/nettop) I dont care what else it can do. Intel is spot on here.
 

magreen

Golden Member
Dec 27, 2006
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/grabs popcorn and coke and reclines in his chair to watch the spectacle
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
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Sep 28, 2005
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Originally posted by: Jabbernyx
Originally posted by: SunnyD
Nvidia already announced and demo'd Ion Nano... a 9400 chipset with a VIA Nano strapped onto it. People weren't impressed.
That sounds a little like a Ferrari with a golf cart engine inside :p

ROFLROFLROFL...

Nice one...
 

Dadofamunky

Platinum Member
Jan 4, 2005
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Too bad AMD doesn't want a piece of this market. The Atom is a joke performance-wise. IIRC, it's equivalent of a PIII 1 GHz? Please.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
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Intel's points are a joke. People want performance, even in the nettop and netbook market. An Atom powered netbook can struggle with high bit rate MP3s.

Edit - Intel didn't create the netbook market either, by the way. The subnotebook market has been simmmering for years. It wasn't until Asus launched the Eee PCs and did the job mostly right close to the targeted price point that people took notice and started buying. Intel just happened to have the right CPU in the Atom ready at the right time. Intel never intended the Atom to be used in the netbook, rather, they wanted it to be used in the MID market where it wouldn't cannibalize sales of their C2D and other lines.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
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Originally posted by: nyker96
sometimes fight=love, maybe the next article will be the talks of NV+Intel merge. stay tuned :}

You're right! The makeup sex will be incredible!

Sandy Bridge with a GT400 on the same die? :heart:
 

magreen

Golden Member
Dec 27, 2006
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Originally posted by: Dadofamunky
Too bad AMD doesn't want a piece of this market. The Atom is a joke performance-wise. IIRC, it's equivalent of a PIII 1 GHz? Please.

No, it (the popular 1.6GHz model) is equivalent to a Pentium M at 1 GHz (give or take). That's vastly different from a Pentium III.
 

magreen

Golden Member
Dec 27, 2006
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Originally posted by: Bateluer
Intel's points are a joke. People want performance, even in the nettop and netbook market. An Atom powered netbook can struggle with high bit rate MP3s.
I find that hard to believe. A Pentium 1 at 133MHz can play mp3s with ease.

And the vast majority of people buying netbooks want to surf the internet, read email, and write the occasional paper in microsoft word. And it's nice and snappy for all those things.

You want faster performance, so don't buy the atom.
 

hans007

Lifer
Feb 1, 2000
20,212
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amd could easily get into this market but they probably just dont have the money.

a 740g chipset and an sempron sparta chip clocked to 1.5ghz or so is reasonably close tot he atom + 945gse as far as power use. its effectively what the athlon neo is.

but amd doesnt have the money to fight on this "front" so to speak right now. if they shrank the athlon 64 to 45nm, and just bundled it with the 55nm 740g or even 780g they would be very compettive (or even better the future 40nm 8xx series chipsetS). who knows maybe that is what they have planned and they just arent telling anyone yet.
 

Cookie Monster

Diamond Member
May 7, 2005
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Originally posted by: ilkhan
Long as the platform can support aero, 720p h264, and 1080p if possible (video output to a TV/nettop) I dont care what else it can do. Intel is spot on here.

Thing is, the ion platform can run 1080p content no problem thanks to the MCP79 ala geforce 9400 (or 9300 doesn't really matter). On the other hand its the intel netbooks that cant run 1080p content.

This makes netbooks based on the ion platform that much more appealing, compared to intel's 3 chip solution (where two of the three chips are 4 years old!)
 

n7

Elite Member
Jan 4, 2004
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Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
Thing is, the ion platform can run 1080p content no problem thanks to the MCP79 ala geforce 9400 (or 9300 doesn't really matter). On the other hand its the intel netbooks that cant run 1080p content.

This makes netbooks based on the ion platform that much more appealing, compared to intel's 3 chip solution (where two of the three chips are 4 years old!)

How's that?

Just who is making netbooks that use 1080p screens?
None are.

And remember, netbooks don't have optical drives, so there will be extremely few people hooking their netbooks up to TVs to play Blu-Ray...

nVidia can crow about how awesome their Ion platform is all they want, but it's a pointless platform, & they know it.

 

Cookie Monster

Diamond Member
May 7, 2005
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But you can pluck in a optical drive since it has 2 e-sata ports including 6 or more USB ports. The thing is that the term "netbooks" is rather a vague term, and depending on execution, these could be in a form of a small laptop (the most common approach), or a very small mini-ITX PC (a concept thats being picked up by some big names like asus and what I am interested at).

You would be surprised at just how many people are interested at this solution because of the price and its capabilities. Could be integrated into a portable HTPC, integrated into a 1080P TV monitor, an apple TV etc.
 

magreen

Golden Member
Dec 27, 2006
1,309
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Originally posted by: n7
Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
Thing is, the ion platform can run 1080p content no problem thanks to the MCP79 ala geforce 9400 (or 9300 doesn't really matter). On the other hand its the intel netbooks that cant run 1080p content.

This makes netbooks based on the ion platform that much more appealing, compared to intel's 3 chip solution (where two of the three chips are 4 years old!)

How's that?

Just who is making netbooks that use 1080p screens?
None are.

And remember, netbooks don't have optical drives, so there will be extremely few people hooking their netbooks up to TVs to play Blu-Ray...

nVidia can crow about how awesome their Ion platform is all they want, but it's a pointless platform, & they know it.

netbook F@H FTW!!!!! :thumbsup:
 
Oct 16, 1999
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I don't see how Intel (and others here) can say users won't care about such and such capabilities Ion gives them. The reason they don't care now is because they can't do those things on a netbook currently. They have either accepted the limitations of using a netbook or they are using something else. Adding in more capability will result in people using that capability, plain and simple. I like what Nvidia is doing here, Intel has for far too long limited computing in the general market with their shitty graphics hardware.