Open letter from Vietnam vet to GI's in Iraq

[lozina]

a great read in my opinion:



http://www.counterpunch.org/goff11142003.html

 

[chess9]

Lozina:

Hey, didn't you hear? Iraq is not like VIetnam!! Where you been boy? That guy is just another anti-war terrorist sympathizer who got drafted and is still p***ed off.

On a more serious note, the piece is a little over the top, particularly the implied advice part. His boy is a volunteer! Uncle Sam owns his butt thanks to all the Dems who gave Bush a blank check like complete idiots.

-Robert

 

[Lucky]

sounds like that guy has PTSD. He should look into getting some help.

 

[Red Dawn]

I'm sure for every Nam Vet that SHARES his opinion there are numerous ones who don't. I wasn't in Nam myself so I really can't make an educated comment about his experience in country there. I do believe that "Suits" have been using our Servicemen as pawns going back to the Mexican American War and the Spanish American War.

 

[Zebo]

He's assuming most of these "volunteer" force can read. I was in and can tell you 1/2 was illiterate 1/2 are in cause they have no other choice..it's either strave or join up. In veitnam there was a draft, subseqeuntly the troops represented a diverse IQ pool.. I seriously doubt any of this volunteer force would feel the same as he does since they are heavily screaned and court marshalled or discharged for having independent thought. I certainly can't imagine a guy like hackworth a col who said in 1971 we will loose vietnam in a TV interview..probably cost him general even so.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Zebo
He's assuming most of these "volunteer" force can read. I was in and can tell you 1/2 was illiterate 1/2 are in cause they have no other choice..it's either strave or join up. In veitnam there was a draft, subseqeuntly the troops represented a diverse IQ pool.. I seriously doubt any of this volunteer force would feel the same as he does since they are heavily screaned and court marshalled or discharged for having independent thought. I certainly can't imagine a guy like hackworth a col who said in 1971 we will loose vietnam in a TV interview..probably cost him general even so.

I'd give our troops today more credit than that. Most probably joined because it was a way for them to either learn a career (including a career in the Serives) or get money for schooling for a career. Of course they are going to be well discliplined and not question orders given to them, what good would they be as an Army if they did.

 

[tnitsuj]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Zebo
He's assuming most of these "volunteer" force can read. I was in and can tell you 1/2 was illiterate 1/2 are in cause they have no other choice..it's either strave or join up. In veitnam there was a draft, subseqeuntly the troops represented a diverse IQ pool.. I seriously doubt any of this volunteer force would feel the same as he does since they are heavily screaned and court marshalled or discharged for having independent thought. I certainly can't imagine a guy like hackworth a col who said in 1971 we will loose vietnam in a TV interview..probably cost him general even so.

I'd give our troops today more credit than that. Most probably joined because it was a way for them to either learn a career (including a career in the Serives) or get money for schooling for a career. Of course they are going to be well discliplined and not question orders given to them, what good would they be as an Army if they did.

"Of course they are going to be well discliplined and not question orders given to them, what good would they be as an Army if they did"

theoretically. Most are, but a large majority of a JO's time is spent chasing after f*** ups.

 

[SwissArmyBilly]

You are right Red. Politicians have historically used our service men as pawns for their own ends. It is disgusting that they think our boys are suddenly chess pieces when it suits them, instead of fathers, husbands and sons.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Zebo
He's assuming most of these "volunteer" force can read. I was in and can tell you 1/2 was illiterate 1/2 are in cause they have no other choice..it's either strave or join up. In veitnam there was a draft, subseqeuntly the troops represented a diverse IQ pool.. I seriously doubt any of this volunteer force would feel the same as he does since they are heavily screaned and court marshalled or discharged for having independent thought. I certainly can't imagine a guy like hackworth a col who said in 1971 we will loose vietnam in a TV interview..probably cost him general even so.

I'd give our troops today more credit than that. Most probably joined because it was a way for them to either learn a career (including a career in the Serives) or get money for schooling for a career. Of course they are going to be well discliplined and not question orders given to them, what good would they be as an Army if they did.

Me too... i was exagerating. But have you seen lynch or the guy who saved her? Deliverance comes to mind.. My nephew got dischaged last year and i talked him into joining.. bright kid. I just wish we had a draft or paid them more so it's not economic servitude.

 

[SwissArmyBilly]

You are right Red. Politicians have historically used our service men as pawns for their own ends. It is disgusting that they think our boys are suddenly chess pieces when it suits them, instead of fathers, husbands and sons.

 

[burnedout]

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

"Of course they are going to be well discliplined and not question orders given to them, what good would they be as an Army if they did"

theoretically. Most are, but a large majority of a JO's time is spent chasing after f*** ups.

JO's meaning "Junior Officers"? No, they won't be chasing screwups if they have any NCOs with them who are worth a damn.

 

[tnitsuj]

Originally posted by: burnedout

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

"Of course they are going to be well discliplined and not question orders given to them, what good would they be as an Army if they did"

theoretically. Most are, but a large majority of a JO's time is spent chasing after f*** ups.

JO's meaning "Junior Officers"? No, they won't be chasing screwups if they have any NCOs with them who are worth a damn.

That is just coming from the experience of my Wife who is a JO O-2, and all her other JO friends who seem to spend tons of time cleaning up little messes in thier divisions. Thier Chiefs do a lot of the work, but it all seems to come back to them.

 

[Mrburns2007]

The war went well it's the peace that is the problem, when you create a power vaccum it takes time to fill.


Of course finding Saddam and some of the other thugs would help slow down the attacks.

 

[tyler811]

Originally posted by: SwissArmyBilly
You are right Red. Politicians have historically used our service men as pawns for their own ends. It is disgusting that they think our boys are suddenly chess pieces when it suits them, instead of fathers, husbands and sons.

Agree

 

[mastertech01]

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

Originally posted by: burnedout

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

"Of course they are going to be well discliplined and not question orders given to them, what good would they be as an Army if they did"

theoretically. Most are, but a large majority of a JO's time is spent chasing after f*** ups.

JO's meaning "Junior Officers"? No, they won't be chasing screwups if they have any NCOs with them who are worth a damn.

That is just coming from the experience of my Wife who is a JO O-2, and all her other JO friends who seem to spend tons of time cleaning up little messes in thier divisions. Thier Chiefs do a lot of the work, but it all seems to come back to them.

Believe it or not there are quite a few JO's with their own messes to clean up. A young man is a young man and they make mistakes just like a private. They tend to have an umbrella of security from the Officer Corps to keep these things quiet of course. Of course when the privates out number the officers 100-1 or so it certainly magnifies the enlisted group's problems. The NCO most often is the one who keeps the enlisted soldier in line, tends to the soldiers family problems, and takes the slam dunk when the soldier screws up. Very rarely in my experience did the JO even get involved in soldier personal problems. It went from soldier to first line supervisor (NCO) to Platoon Sgt (NCO) 1st Sergeant (NCO) to Commander. Often the NCO got to visit the Command Sergeant Major for a followup butt chewing as well. Politics galore and sh!t ALWAYS rolls downhill.

 

[glenn1]

Open letter from Vietnam vet to GI's in Iraq

Nice attempt to project his personal demons onto the current military set in order to make a political point. He needs to get some help for himself first before he offers advice to others.

 

[burnedout]

Originally posted by: mastertech01

Believe it or not there are quite a few JO's with their own messes to clean up. A young man is a young man and they make mistakes just like a private. They tend to have an umbrella of security from the Officer Corps to keep these things quiet of course. Of course when the privates out number the officers 100-1 or so it certainly magnifies the enlisted group's problems. The NCO most often is the one who keeps the enlisted soldier in line, tends to the soldiers family problems, and takes the slam dunk when the soldier screws up. Very rarely in my experience did the JO even get involved in soldier personal problems. It went from soldier to first line supervisor (NCO) to Platoon Sgt (NCO) 1st Sergeant (NCO) to Commander. Often the NCO got to visit the Command Sergeant Major for a followup butt chewing as well. Politics galore and sh!t ALWAYS rolls downhill.

Roger that. NCOs are the real backbone of the Army. Our officers rarely got involved with enlisted matters except for UCMJ or awards. Even on UCMJ matters, the company or battalion CO dished out the punishment. All the PL's (2nd and 1st LT) did during AR-15 hearings was stand there and give recommendations. NCOs take care of the enlisted soldiers in the U.S. Army.

 

[Shad0hawK]

Originally posted by: Zebo
He's assuming most of these "volunteer" force can read. I was in and can tell you 1/2 was illiterate 1/2 are in cause they have no other choice..it's either strave or join up. In veitnam there was a draft, subseqeuntly the troops represented a diverse IQ pool.. I seriously doubt any of this volunteer force would feel the same as he does since they are heavily screaned and court marshalled or discharged for having independent thought. I certainly can't imagine a guy like hackworth a col who said in 1971 we will loose vietnam in a TV interview..probably cost him general even so.

what was your MOS and when were you in?

 

[mastertech01]

Originally posted by: burnedout

Originally posted by: mastertech01

Believe it or not there are quite a few JO's with their own messes to clean up. A young man is a young man and they make mistakes just like a private. They tend to have an umbrella of security from the Officer Corps to keep these things quiet of course. Of course when the privates out number the officers 100-1 or so it certainly magnifies the enlisted group's problems. The NCO most often is the one who keeps the enlisted soldier in line, tends to the soldiers family problems, and takes the slam dunk when the soldier screws up. Very rarely in my experience did the JO even get involved in soldier personal problems. It went from soldier to first line supervisor (NCO) to Platoon Sgt (NCO) 1st Sergeant (NCO) to Commander. Often the NCO got to visit the Command Sergeant Major for a followup butt chewing as well. Politics galore and sh!t ALWAYS rolls downhill.

Roger that. NCOs are the real backbone of the Army. Our officers rarely got involved with enlisted matters except for UCMJ or awards. Even on UCMJ matters, the company or battalion CO dished out the punishment. All the PL's (2nd and 1st LT) did during AR-15 hearings was stand there and give recommendations. NCOs take care of the enlisted soldiers in the U.S. Army.

Just be present at any commanders "Change of Command" ceremony. I guarantee you he will rave on how he could have never accomplished the mission without his Non Coms..