One thing I wish M$ would add to their NT based OSes

[calpha]

Winders gives you the task manager---but how nice would it be to have *nix type access to the system from a 2nd console? And, I've been using Linux only since RH 5.0-----(don't use RH anymore)....but I've never had an instance occur when I couldn't get to another console so I could at least kill the processes and perform a safe reboot------That's right----even when I was learning Linux, never once have I had to 3 finger salute it because it just "hung". How many times have you had Windows Task Manager itself lock up on you?

Man, I'm having a b!tch of a time getting xf86config to work on Debian. It's on an Intel 810 integrated AGB mobo----and for some reason, Deb don't like it....anyway. I've sucessfully locked up starting X twice now.
Ctrl-Alt-F2

Just takes me to another console so I can kill my already dead attempt at X. I'm by no means even good w/ Linux yet----but that's one thing I know I could use a lot on Winders. But.......I guess the fundamental difference why that would never happen is b/c X isn't the OS----it's a shell for the OS----(not in the sense of Win31 mind you)....whereas Winders GUI plus the OS are the same.....

 

[bsobel]

whereas Winders GUI plus the OS are the same.....

Not true of the NT/2k/XP line (somewhat true of the 9x line).
Bill

 

[calpha]

Originally posted by: bsobel

whereas Winders GUI plus the OS are the same.....

Not true of the NT/2k/XP line (somewhat true of the 9x line).
Bill

I was implying that you can't get winders NT derivations to run w/o having the GUI up. While I don't argue that pure "windows" functions (read: GUI) may indeed be separated from the OS Core either way----AFAIK, in NT derivations it's impossible to run the core OS w/o having the GUI up-----thus my reason for linking the GUI and the OS in those OSes. Besides, in most cases I've ever had b/c of a system hang------the end result of what'd causing the hang is a dead explorer.exe process-----which in most cases I can kill and restart to get my control back....but in rare cases-----results in a pure hang.

Task Manager works in most cases--but even in XP, I've had task manager die-----well, hang----and the only thing being possible other then waitng for an hour to see if it comes up is a warm reboot via the reset switch. In the *nix OSes I've used, I've never had to do this b/c I can always get to a diff't console and give a system command to restart.

If winders did treat the OS and the GUI completely separate, in that case the only reason there's not a true console available is b/c M$ft chose to implement task manager as it's only process monitoring/controlling tool. Which goes back to my original wish that they'd at least have a console much like *nix where I could always go and enter command line commands----(of course that would imply having a command line for shutting down system and/or process, which I'm not aware of).

 

[singh]

I was implying that you can't get winders NT derivations to run w/o having the GUI up. While I don't argue that pure "windows" functions (read: GUI) may indeed be separated from the OS Core either way----AFAIK, in NT derivations it's impossible to run the core OS w/o having the GUI up-----thus my reason for linking the GUI and the OS in those OSes. Besides, in most cases I've ever had b/c of a system hang------the end result of what'd causing the hang is a dead explorer.exe process-----which in most cases I can kill and restart to get my control back....but in rare cases-----results in a pure hang.

I think that MS could, with only a little effort, take out the GUI requirement. I doubt very much that the Windows Kernel has any GUI dependencies. The problem is with the rest of the OS - the API's, the tools. MOST software written for windows requires a GUI to operate. In MS's eyes, the effort of making the API's and tools CLI compatible may not be worth the benifits.

Task Manager works in most cases--but even in XP, I've had task manager die-----well, hang----and the only thing being possible other then waitng for an hour to see if it comes up is a warm reboot via the reset switch. In the *nix OSes I've used, I've never had to do this b/c I can always get to a diff't console and give a system command to restart.

I think there is a command line tool MS provides that allows you to view/kill processes (in the resource kit I think).

If winders did treat the OS and the GUI completely separate, in that case the only reason there's not a true console available is b/c M$ft chose to implement task manager as it's only process monitoring/controlling tool. Which goes back to my original wish that they'd at least have a console much like *nix where I could always go and enter command line commands----(of course that would imply having a command line for shutting down system and/or process, which I'm not aware of).

The OS and the GUI is mostly separate - the explorer shell can be replaced I believe. Again, the dependencies of the "OS" have to be kept in mind. The Task Manager's a very simple application and it suffices for most of the users. Commercial tools are available that do a much better job.

One of the benifits of having the GUI "integrated" in Windows is that there's a significant speed improvement over other OS's that implement the GUI's in user-space. Of course, there are many disadvantages in having the GUI in kernel space as well.

 

[Yomicron]

I don't know about XP but in 2000 if you install the Support Tools you get a CLI process monitor and kill command. Granted, if the system is hanging you might not be able to lanuch the command interpreter.