one thing i really F'ing hate about xp

[skylord23]

ok. back in windows 98 and ME when you crtl+alt+del and hit end task on something it would end task without a problem. on windows XP i hit end task and it laughs at me. i have to restart my machine if i want to actually close a program. and its not just this machine. ive had this problem on about 2 dozen machines with differents apps. IE, dvd shrink, trillian, daemon tools, irc. i mean seriously, why is it so hard to END TASK when prompted to? anyone have any ideas on how to pimp slap xp into doing as it is told?

 

[DaFinn]

Huh??? 98/ME would crash if you tried to end certain progs... I have NEVER had this problem with XP???

 

[Diz2K2]

Originally posted by: skylord23
ok. back in windows 98 and ME when you crtl+alt+del and hit end task on something it would end task without a problem. on windows XP i hit end task and it laughs at me. i have to restart my machine if i want to actually close a program. and its not just this machine. ive had this problem on about 2 dozen machines with differents apps. IE, dvd shrink, trillian, daemon tools, irc. i mean seriously, why is it so hard to END TASK when prompted to? anyone have any ideas on how to pimp slap xp into doing as it is told?

It does seem to have a bit of a delay when trying to end a task. But it does eventually end the task at least in my case. I do know what he is saying though.

 

[CTho9305]

Use "End Process" if you can figure out which one is the app you want to kill. It's instant.

 

[MrChad]

There is also a command line tool available in the Resource Kit -- kill.exe -- that ends processes immediately.

 

[mikecel79]

Your not being patient enough. If you hit End Task windows will try and shut the app down gracefully so you don't lose data. It normally takes 15-20 seconds for it to end the task if it can't be shut down gracefully.

 

[skylord23]

i waited for 4 hours last night for a process to end. and yes xp will crash if you try to end certain tasks too. im not talking about ending random programs that arent needed, im talking about a program that just froze. i was in the middle of something last night with dvdshrink, the program failed to read dvd, so i closed it. went to open it back up and it wouldnt load. but the program was listed in the running proceses so i hit end task and then hit end program on the pop up window. and then proceeded to wait 4 hours while i was doing other things.

 

[kylef]

Originally posted by: skylord23
but the program was listed in the running proceses so i hit end task and then hit end program on the pop up window. and then proceeded to wait 4 hours while i was doing other things.

Do not use End Task! (All it does is send a message to the app's top level window and wait for a response; if it gets a response, it does nothing and assumes the app is closing down.)

Instead, always go to the Processes tab, and use "End Process."

If "End Process" does not work within 10 seconds, your system has been hosed by a runaway driver or aberrant piece of hardware in 90% of cases.

 

[skylord23]

Do not use End Task! (All it does is send a message to the app's top level window and wait for a response; if it gets a response, it does nothing and assumes the app is closing down.)

Instead, always go to the Processes tab, and use "End Process."

If "End Process" does not work within 10 seconds, your system has been hosed by a runaway driver or aberrant piece of hardware in 90% of cases.

this is what i meant to say. srry i was typing that when i was still half asleep. i did go to the processes tab and hit end process. and then i waited for 4 hours. it wasnt even listen in the tasks window.

 

[Jeff7]

I've had quite the opposite experience. Win9x's End Task would generally do just about nothing. Sometimes it would "cripple" a program until Windows would realize the process had frozen, and then it might really try to close it. I finally found a nice program from Entechtaiwan, Resman, to terminate processes - it would show an actual process list, not just the running program windows.

WinXP's Task Manager is generally much better, at least in my experience, at terminating processes. If it's frozen such that Task Manager can't terminate the process, something's really screwed up, and a forced reboot is the only option.

i waited for 4 hours last night for a process to end.

Wow, you're patient. Processes for me generally have less than a minute to decide to end or not. Then the reset button makes their minds up for them.

Do not use End Task! (All it does is send a message to the app's top level window and wait for a response; if it gets a response, it does nothing and assumes the app is closing down.)

Instead, always go to the Processes tab, and use "End Process."

If "End Process" does not work within 10 seconds, your system has been hosed by a runaway driver or aberrant piece of hardware in 90% of cases.

This was for DvdShrink? I've found that some programs that deal with the optical drives are damned determined to finish. I've told Nero to erase a disc, but then I need to reboot. Cancel doesn't work in Nero. Terminating the process isn't enough either - the drive remains active. Only a hard reboot gets it to give up.

But 4hrs is waaay too long to give a computer when it's frozen. At least for me, I expect my PC's to make quick decisions. I only wish there was some way of shaking an electronic fist at the programs, warning them of an impending reset.

 

[skylord23]

Originally posted by: Jeff7
I've had quite the opposite experience. Win9x's End Task would generally do just about nothing. Sometimes it would "cripple" a program until Windows would realize the process had frozen, and then it might really try to close it. I finally found a nice program from Entechtaiwan, Resman, to terminate processes - it would show an actual process list, not just the running program windows.

WinXP's Task Manager is generally much better, at least in my experience, at terminating processes. If it's frozen such that Task Manager can't terminate the process, something's really screwed up, and a forced reboot is the only option.

i waited for 4 hours last night for a process to end.

Wow, you're patient. Processes for me generally have less than a minute to decide to end or not. Then the reset button makes their minds up for them.

Do not use End Task! (All it does is send a message to the app's top level window and wait for a response; if it gets a response, it does nothing and assumes the app is closing down.)

Instead, always go to the Processes tab, and use "End Process."

If "End Process" does not work within 10 seconds, your system has been hosed by a runaway driver or aberrant piece of hardware in 90% of cases.

This was for DvdShrink? I've found that some programs that deal with the optical drives are damned determined to finish. I've told Nero to erase a disc, but then I need to reboot. Cancel doesn't work in Nero. Terminating the process isn't enough either - the drive remains active. Only a hard reboot gets it to give up.

But 4hrs is waaay too long to give a computer when it's frozen. At least for me, I expect my PC's to make quick decisions. I only wish there was some way of shaking an electronic fist at the programs, warning them of an impending reset.

well i was in the middle of doing other things so i didnt mind the 4 hour wait. tho i did finally have to do a hard reboot for the system to do anything.

 

[Nothinman]

i was in the middle of something last night with dvdshrink, the program failed to read dvd, so i closed it. went to open it back up and it wouldnt load. but the program was listed in the running proceses so i hit end task and then hit end program on the pop up window. and then proceeded to wait 4 hours while i was doing other things.

That's because dvdshrink was waiting on the hardware. A process in kernel-mode can not be killed until the syscall it's stuck in returns, if that's a read to a device that's hung (i.e. your DVD drive) you won't be able to kill that process.

and yes xp will crash if you try to end certain tasks too

So you've actually gotten the kernel to STOP by killing certain processes?

 

[HKSturboKID]

Originally posted by: CTho9305
Use "End Process" if you can figure out which one is the app you want to kill. It's instant.

I endorse this message.

 

[mikecel79]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

i was in the middle of something last night with dvdshrink, the program failed to read dvd, so i closed it. went to open it back up and it wouldnt load. but the program was listed in the running proceses so i hit end task and then hit end program on the pop up window. and then proceeded to wait 4 hours while i was doing other things.

That's because dvdshrink was waiting on the hardware. A process in kernel-mode can not be killed until the syscall it's stuck in returns, if that's a read to a device that's hung (i.e. your DVD drive) you won't be able to kill that process.

and yes xp will crash if you try to end certain tasks too

So you've actually gotten the kernel to STOP by killing certain processes?

Like Nothinman said. The OP didn't originally tell us he was using an optical drive at the time. I have a similiar problem like this with my DVD drive. It just randomly tries to access the disc in the drive and then just hangs with the light on the front blinking. Locks the whole system up until it decides to stop (which hasn't ever happened yet).

XP is much much better at ending tasks than 9x.

 

[Tbirdkid]

more reason, to use linux. at least for all of your desktop things such as apps to burn, write docs and shizzle. i only use windows for games and movies. i even work on dvds on linux. way better, no viruses, irc channels that work and people actually help you. thats my idea of owning a pc and an os.

UBUNTU ROX

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

i was in the middle of something last night with dvdshrink, the program failed to read dvd, so i closed it. went to open it back up and it wouldnt load. but the program was listed in the running proceses so i hit end task and then hit end program on the pop up window. and then proceeded to wait 4 hours while i was doing other things.

That's because dvdshrink was waiting on the hardware. A process in kernel-mode can not be killed until the syscall it's stuck in returns, if that's a read to a device that's hung (i.e. your DVD drive) you won't be able to kill that process.

and yes xp will crash if you try to end certain tasks too

So you've actually gotten the kernel to STOP by killing certain processes?

Kernel level HALT is not uncommon in XP when the app in question is using DX or GL.

 

[Nothinman]

Kernel level HALT is not uncommon in XP when the app in question is using DX or GL.

That's a driver issue, not a XP issue.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

Kernel level HALT is not uncommon in XP when the app in question is using DX or GL.

That's a driver issue, not a XP issue.

Heh, no, that would be wrong, XP contains both DX and GL along with kernel level drivers, all curtesy of microsoft and delivered with he OS.

So i would say it is an XP issue.

 

[Nothinman]

Heh, no, that would be wrong, XP contains both DX and GL along with kernel level drivers, all curtesy of microsoft and delivered with he OS.

DirectX and OpenGL are just userland interfaces, the driver still does the real work and if the driver doesn't cope with the card being reset back to 2D without normal cleanup, that's a bug in the driver.

 

[eigen]

Originally posted by: Tbirdkid
more reason, to use linux. at least for all of your desktop things such as apps to burn, write docs and shizzle. i only use windows for games and movies. i even work on dvds on linux. way better, no viruses, irc channels that work and people actually help you. thats my idea of owning a pc and an os.

UBUNTU ROX

ps -A

kill xxxx

Always works

 

[Nothinman]

ps -A

kill xxxx

Always works

No, the same issues apply. If a process is stick in the kernel (usually shows up as in a D state) it won't be killable until the syscall it's in returns.

 

[drag]

Originally posted by: eigen

Originally posted by: Tbirdkid
more reason, to use linux. at least for all of your desktop things such as apps to burn, write docs and shizzle. i only use windows for games and movies. i even work on dvds on linux. way better, no viruses, irc channels that work and people actually help you. thats my idea of owning a pc and an os.

UBUNTU ROX

ps -A

kill xxxx

Always works

Come on. If your going to thread crap, you might as well do it in style.
kill proccesses with Doom

Now that's how you kill runaway proccesses.

Anyways. WinXP is superior to Win9x in almost conveivable manner. I can't beleive people are still pining for that ancient peice of crap. Even if it's just in the manner that it kills proccesses.

Every OS is going to have trouble time to time killing proccessses. And in WinXP it's possible, I suppose, to kill the wrong proccess and make your system unstable, but it's the same thing in Linux. Linux isn't going to solve your problems when it comes to dealing with crappy drivers and crappy software (ever try to do "non-standard" things with X that involve the nvidia binary drivers?)


So just leave those poor Windows boys alone. Your not going to win any points for pestering them. 😉

 

[flamingspinach]

I have this problem too, somewhat often. I'm no expert, but I have noticed that whenever I try to kill a process, a program named "dumprep.exe" starts running. I assume this is the preparation for the memory dump that Microsoft wants you to submit to them - Win9x didn't have this reporting feature, perhaps that's why it's taking so long? Anyway, I found that if I killed dumprep.exe, the original desired-dead process would die soon thereafter.

-fs

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

Heh, no, that would be wrong, XP contains both DX and GL along with kernel level drivers, all curtesy of microsoft and delivered with he OS.

DirectX and OpenGL are just userland interfaces, the driver still does the real work and if the driver doesn't cope with the card being reset back to 2D without normal cleanup, that's a bug in the driver.

Not neccessarily and i suspect you know that, the bugs in DX have been quite frequent, besides, there is a driver side included with DX that carries MS's signum.

And kernel level driver issues that interact with DX and GL are hardly userland, the programs which utilize the libraries are userland, low level DX is not.

 

[Nothinman]

DirectX probably does have a kernel portion of it's own, MS is known for doing stupid things like that. But I know OpenGL doesn't.

And kernel level driver issues that interact with DX and GL are hardly userland, the programs which utilize the libraries are userland, low level DX is not.

I don't have a Windows box handy to actually poke around in, but 100% of OpenGL and atleast 99% DirectX are userland code.