One SC Justice gave advice to Democrats to Countermand the SC Hobby Lobby Decision

[Hayabusa Rider]

There is nothing in the ruling that limits it to just 4 forms of birth control. It's up to the employer to pick and choose what his religion objects to his employees using. Other companies are already using this ruling to deny all birth control, so your point is moot. And secondly, it should be up to the woman and her doctor to pick her birth control method, not her employer.
It is good politics as well, no doubt. SCOTUS created an issue out of thin air for the Democrats to use to drive a wedge between religious conservatives and middle class women. This is now about contraception, not just abortion, and contraception use has overwhelming approval. It would be political malpractice for the Democrats to not use it to its full advantage and put GOP on record as blocking this amendment.

I don't object to people making arguments based on principle however I really dislike both sides lying to suit their purposes.

 

[waggy]

You miss the point. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO GET THE PRESCRIPTION IF IT'S NOT ON THE FORUMLARY. No doctor in the system will just give you the prescription and send you off. Walmart doesn't just take your word that you need it. People who have healthcare that won't cover contraceptive based care will have to seek out of coverage doctors. You're assuming everyone's insurance/healthcare works the exact same way when it in fact does not.

I think you are full of shit. I have gotten prescriptions that my insurance does not cover. i just get the generic version.

it also does not pass the common sense test. IF a person does not have prescription insurance they can't get any prescriptions? or if a new drug is out and not covered they can't get it? etc etc.

 

[Atreus21]

Democrats are becoming delusional about this. It really is getting ridiculous.

Having a moral objection to providing at your own expense 4 out of 20 available contraceptives to your employees is not tantamount to theocracy.

 

[Oldgamer]

I think a lot of you are still missing other points. It doesn't matter if some types of cheap birth control pills can be available as much as that women need options. Not all women can take the same types of BC pills. Some women can't tolerate BC pills at all. So the IUD device is needed, and that has to be done under a semi quasi in out patient surgery procedure. That is very expensive and we are not talking about 20 or 30 dollars here. Also some women may need forms of birth control that are very expensive and very hard to get like the shots.

So basically what has happened is the SC decision has taken away many of the options. They have now made it economically harder for many women to obtain these options due to cost.

 

[senseamp]

Democrats are becoming delusional about this. It really is getting ridiculous.

Having a moral objection to providing at your own expense 4 out of 20 available contraceptives to your employees is not tantamount to theocracy.

Which 4 birth control options is this ruling limited to?
Oh wait, it isn't limited at all.
(Rightwing site alert)
http://reason.com/archives/2014/07/08/eden-foods-and-next-birth-control-cases

Following the Hobby Lobby ruling, the Court ordered reviews of three similar cases wherein lower courts had rejected companies' requests to be exempted from the mandate: Autocam Corp. v. Burwell, Eden Foods v. Burwell, and Gilardi v. Department of Health & Human Services.

Autocam is a Michigan-based company that manufactures parts for cars and medical supplies. The Gilardi brothers operate two Ohio food distribution companies. In all three lawsuits, the companies objected to covering ALL forms of contraception (in the Hobby Lobby case, owners had merely objected to four specific types). The Gilardi case will now go back to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia; Eden and Autocam will bounce back to the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals.

 

[Newell Steamer]

Corporations are the only people I know who can't be arrested for fraud and all sort of other illegal activities - while doing whatever they damn well please.

 

[senseamp]

Corporations are the only people I know who can't be arrested for fraud and all sort of other illegal activities - while doing whatever they damn well please.

Or pay taxes on foreign income, like all other Americans persons have to.

 

[nehalem256]

Which 4 birth control options is this ruling limited to?
Oh wait, it isn't limited at all.
(Rightwing site alert)
http://reason.com/archives/2014/07/08/eden-foods-and-next-birth-control-cases

Lets think about this. If the companies health insurance costs are less then they can afford to pay more for wages.

So they should be able to use their higher wages to pay for birth control:thumbsup:

 

[nehalem256]

I think a lot of you are still missing other points. It doesn't matter if some types of cheap birth control pills can be available as much as that women need options. Not all women can take the same types of BC pills. Some women can't tolerate BC pills at all. So the IUD device is needed, and that has to be done under a semi quasi in out patient surgery procedure. That is very expensive and we are not talking about 20 or 30 dollars here. Also some women may need forms of birth control that are very expensive and very hard to get like the shots.

So basically what has happened is the SC decision has taken away many of the options. They have now made it economically harder for many women to obtain these options due to cost.

They can always use condoms like men.

 

[thraashman]

I would love if this worked. Sadly we all know that between the Republicans desire to give corporations more rights than people and their desire to limit the reproductive choices of women and control their bodies, that this will be filibustered.

 

[nehalem256]

I would love if this worked. Sadly we all know that between the Republicans desire to give corporations more rights than people and their desire to limit the reproductive choices of women and control their bodies, that this will be filibustered.

Damn those Republicans only allowing women to have the same reproductive choices as men!

 

[senseamp]

Lets think about this. If the companies health insurance costs are less then they can afford to pay more for wages.

So they should be able to use their higher wages to pay for birth control:thumbsup:

Health insurance costs won't be less though. Pregnancies are a lot more expensive than contraception. So there won't be those higher wages to pay for anything.
Be ready to be debating contraception for a long time Many "legitimate rape" moment opportunities for the GOP. Many post-election "why did we lose women again" self reflections. Fun times all around.

 

[nehalem256]

Health insurance costs won't be less though. Pregnancies are a lot more expensive than contraception. So there won't be those higher wages to pay for anything.

Why would there be more pregnancies? Women still have contraception they just have use their higher wages to pay for it?

Are you saying women are too stupid to figure out how to do that and will instead blow all their money on shoes? :sneaky:

Be ready to be debating contraception for a long time Many "legitimate rape" moment opportunities for the GOP. Many post-election "why did we lose women again" self reflections. Fun times all around.

Because women like having men buy them things

 

[senseamp]

Why would there be more pregnancies? Women still have contraception they just have use their higher wages to pay for it?

Are you saying women are too stupid to figure out how to do that and will instead blow all their money on shoes? :sneaky:



Because women like having men buy them things

Looks like you got a fine honed message to women there :thumbsup:
Your compensation package at work is not you getting what you earn, but men buying you things :wub:

 

[nehalem256]

Your compensation package at work is not you getting what you earn, but men buying you things :wub:

That is the entire purpose of the contraception mandate requiring BC to be available without copay.

 

[senseamp]

That is the entire purpose of the contraception mandate requiring BC to be available without copay.

For men to buy women things? Not for women to get things they need in the benefits they earn through their own hard work?
Great messaging, love it, run with it :thumbsup:

 

[nehalem256]

For men to buy women things? Not for women to get things they need in the benefits they earn through their own hard work?
Great messaging, love it, run with it :thumbsup:

People survived for 1000s of years without birth control. It is not a need.

 

[Zorba]

Democrats are becoming delusional about this. It really is getting ridiculous.

Having a moral objection to providing at your own expense 4 out of 20 available contraceptives to your employees is not tantamount to theocracy.

I object to a corporation having a religion that can over ride the law of the land.

And this ruling is NOT limited to those 4 methods.

 

[Zorba]

This message is hidden because nehalem256 is on your ignore list.

Best thing I've ever done on this website.

 

[Atreus21]

I object to a corporation having a religion that can over ride the law of the land.

And this ruling is NOT limited to those 4 methods.

I object to laws that plainly violate the first amendment.

 

[senseamp]

People survived for 1000s of years without birth control. It is not a need.

Antibiotics too.

 

[piasabird]

Quit trying to single out Christians for abuse by the tyranny of the fed govt!

Why do people want to regulate sex?

Birth Control is just the aftermath of SEX. If you want to have sex that is fine. Don't regulate the cure for you unwanted children on other people. Sex is free and open the children are your problem. You created them.

 

[nehalem256]

Antibiotics too.

I think you may want to rethink that one.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/h...as-common-infections-will-kill-WHO-warns.html

 

[Victorian Gray]

Damn those Republicans only allowing women to have the same reproductive choices as men!

Let us know if you ever manage to get pregnant.

 

[senseamp]

I think you may want to rethink that one.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/h...as-common-infections-will-kill-WHO-warns.html

OK, so contraception and antibiotics are out. What else?