One more time...Honda Losing its way...

[PricklyPete]

I know this is like a broken record as this subject gets brought up a bunch, but I was just having this discussion with my wife the other day as I've always had a special place in my heart for Honda.

In the 80's/90's my parents went from being Ford/GM people to Japanese brands exclusively. It was the mid 90's that I started driving and I spent plenty of time in my families Toyota's and other friends Honda's. I always felt like Honda's were the better driving "appliance" and they always looked better in my eyes. Every time my parents were buying a new car, I would try to talk them into a Honda. Heck, I even tried to talk my dad into an Accord over his Avalon the last time he bought a car.

My wife had a 2004 Civic, which was far from inspiring to drive, but in the 106k miles she put on it (before totaling it), that car was rock solid and was unbelievably cheap to maintain (front brakes, oil changes, air filters, spark plugs...probably ~$500 total)

Well I'm starting to really lose my faith in Honda. They seem to be losing their edge tech wise. Their cars are becoming just as appliance like as Toyota. They don't make any real performance cars anymore (Prelude, NSX, S2000). Their latest Civic seems barely more than a refresh of the old car. The Accord is far from sporty for its segment. It's styling is way off. It is just starting to adopt a 6spd automatic transmission while many companies are now using 8spd or will be introducing them shortly.

Granted the TSX my wife and I test drove was a fairly nice car...but the styling proved to be too much for my wife and the car felt a bit underpowered in I4 guise with an auto (a wife mandate).

I want the honda back from yesteryear.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Those cars were quite a bit smaller than the cars of today but I agree, the new Accord looks like ass. I can't stomach the interior of the Civic either, it is just a mess. The new Ford Focus is a much much better car.

 

[CalvinHobbes]

They may have lost their way but they're selling a lot of cars. Doesn't seem like an incentive to change.

For the 1st Quarter of 2011, the top 4 cars were Honda and Toyota.

 

[JulesMaximus]

BTW, my friend has one of the new Accords. It is the 4 cylinder model with cloth interior. It is comfortable, reliable, gets decent mileage and has enough power to get out of its own way. I'm not crazy about the looks but it seems like a good car, at least as good as the ones from the 90s.

 

[SearchMaster]

I agree with everything said in this thread so far. They've lost their edge, there's nothing special about Hondas any more, other makers have caught up to them (or passed them) in quality and driving feel, but they continue to do well and be profitable so there's little incentive to change.

 

[Arkaign]

Yes, they have completely become soul-less.

The Accord is their best car, but it's no longer best in class (Hello to Fusion and Sonata). Everything else is an also-ran.

If the Civic is truly not really updated, then it's probably near the worst-in-class now.

 

[dpodblood]

Are they ever going to come up with a replacement for the s2000?

 

[PricklyPete]

They may have lost their way but they're selling a lot of cars. Doesn't seem like an incentive to change.

For the 1st Quarter of 2011, the top 4 cars were Honda and Toyota.

GM continued to sell a lot of cars in the late 70's, 80's, and 90's...and it took them a long time to realize what a grave they had dug. I'm hoping Honda doesn't suffer a similar fate.

Honda sells a lot of Accords and Civics...and then CR-V's. There are more and more competitive entries in both the Civic and Accord segments than ever before. It used to be a default gut reaction for most of America to go buy a Honda or a Toyota if looking for a Compact or Midsize offering...now you can buy a well made and competitively priced Hyundai, Ford, Chevy, and even VW in that segment. I feel if Honda doesn't start trying a little harder...they will have a hard time keeping their sales figures.

 

[alfa147x]

Not a fan of the Civic exterior but I still love my car Love the new Acuras. Almost sold my 07 civic for 08' TL AWD...

 

[PricklyPete]

Yes, they have completely become soul-less.

The Accord is their best car, but it's no longer best in class (Hello to Fusion and Elantra). Everything else is an also-ran.

If the Civic is truly not really updated, then it's probably near the worst-in-class now.

From the reviews I'm reading...the updates are marginal.

And I believe you meant Sonata

 

[Arkaign]

From the reviews I'm reading...the updates are marginal.

And I believe you meant Sonata

Ah yes, indeed the Sonata

 

[Zap]

They may have lost their way but they're selling a lot of cars. Doesn't seem like an incentive to change.

See this...

GM continued to sell a lot of cars in the late 70's, 80's, and 90's...and it took them a long time to realize what a grave they had dug. I'm hoping Honda doesn't suffer a similar fate.

This is what I'm thinking. Honda built up their sales, but people are buying now because of what they remember of previous Hondas. Eventually it will catch up to them if they don't change their ways. Maybe.

Or maybe they've become a cult unto their own brand, like Apple products?

I know someone who bought a Civic a couple years ago. His previous car was a Civic and he loved it, so there was ZERO other cars in consideration.

 

[alfa147x]

Or maybe they've become a cult unto their own brand, like Apple products?

I'v been considering this. My like for Honda products seem very similar to my love for Apple products.

 

[jtvang125]

Sadly too many people are still buying hondas because its a honda no matter how ugly they are. I'm sure they're still reliable cars but their entire line up looks hideous, including acura. The sharp and agressive styling just doesn't seem to give a sense of luxury to me.

 

[Imported]

Are they ever going to come up with a replacement for the s2000?

Don't count on it..

 

[NutBucket]

This is what I'm thinking. Honda built up their sales, but people are buying now because of what they remember of previous Hondas. Eventually it will catch up to them if they don't change their ways. Maybe.

The difference between Honda and GM is that GM let the quality of their product slip A LOT. Honda has maintained high quality and while they may have lost a bit of their "edge", it can also be attributed to the competition catching up.

Would you really criticize anyone for buying a Honda? They may be bland but they're still well made and reasonable value for money.

 

[PhoKingGuy]

Honda I think still has something left in them. The new accord is an ugly piece, BUT, it still is a competent family sedan.

Toyota on the other hand would be dead if it werent for the large asian population in CA.

 

[CraigRT]

I have an 8th generation Civic (06-11) and I do like them a lot. They are simple, which I like, and they look great. Car feels solid and gets great mileage. Has a reputation of being reliable (mine is too new to tell) but so far its an excellent car. Do not really like the '12 redesign and happy I have the prior generation. I don't need bells and whistles so the 8th is good with me.

 

[vi edit]

I saw my first CRZ (or CRX?) hybrid on the road yesterday. It's actually a very cool looking little car. One of the few hits Honda has had in recent years. Too bad it's appeal is limited because it's neither fast nor overly economic. :\

 

[TheSlamma]

eh for many people cars are just for A to B, Honda is great for this. Initial quality doesn't mean anything for A to B people, it's the reliability after 100K miles that matters to this group and there are many of us.

 

[BrownShoes]

Hondas today are ugly inside and out.

- Previously owned a 82 Prelude (first car), 90 Civic, 96 Civic, 2001 Accord and 2005 Accord (last car before my current ride).

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

I'll take a bland Honda over anything else on the road when it comes to cars. I know my wife isn't going to be stuck on the side of the road somewhere or it not starting when it's cold and dark outside. I know if shes in a wreck they are very safe too. I'll take the low maintenance costs. Styling takes a backseat to reliability.

 

[Arkaign]

I'll take a bland Honda over anything else on the road when it comes to cars. I know my wife isn't going to be stuck on the side of the road somewhere or it not starting when it's cold and dark outside. I know if shes in a wreck they are very safe too. I'll take the low maintenance costs. Styling takes a backseat to reliability.

Depending on your flavor (I don't care for CR or JD Power, but I do like TrueDelta), Honda has been eclipsed in reliability for a little while now. They're also not more crash-resistant than average.

If this was 1985-2000, I'd be in 1000% agreement. But the only reason to buy a Honda today is that you like the car for what it is, it's no more reliable or safe than many other choices. For fun, here's a rundown of the current lineup :

Accord : Good car, one of the better in class.
Crosstour : Ugly, but basically the same thing as Accord.
Civic : Outclassed by rivals with better features/fuel economy/safety/price.
CR-V : Unsure about this one, but seems to be getting overrun by Kia/Hyundai now.
CR-Z : Interesting, not quite compelling enough to be more than a niche vehicle.
Element : I kind of like it, strange as it is. It's pretty old though, so probably outgunned by much much newer rival designs of the odd city-cruiser cubes.
Fit : One of their more interesting options. Gives a ton of room in a small space, good fuel economy. Would be worth considering vs. Fiesta, though Fiesta is smaller it's a bit sportier and more feature-rich.
Insight : A sad shadow of its former glory, though it's cheap for a hybrid.
Odyssey : A fine Minivan in a market with many good choices.
Pilot : Based on the Odyssey platform, an okay city SUV, but far from great.
Ridgeline : Pathetic. The worst thing you can imagine for the $$. Absolutely terrible value for $$. The polar extreme of what a truck isn't supposed to be. If Snooki was a truck, this would be it.

 

[Pariah]

The difference between Honda and GM is that GM let the quality of their product slip A LOT. Honda has maintained high quality and while they may have lost a bit of their "edge", it can also be attributed to the competition catching up.

Would you really criticize anyone for buying a Honda? They may be bland but they're still well made and reasonable value for money.

Exactly. It's not so much that Honda has gotten worse, it's that everyone who has been chasing them for years is finally catching up. GM of the 80's cut corners everywhere and their cars were complete garbage as a result, to the point of sending their customers looking elsewhere for a better car. Industry wide reliability and quality has improved remarkably in the last 20 years. Ignoring looks, which is a personal thing, there are very few truly bad cars today in the US market. Today's Hondas are certainly good enough to keep their customers coming back. Barring some unforseen change in the attitude of their customers or significant technological shift that catches Honda off guard they aren't going to lose customers in droves like the Big 3 did in the 80's and 90's.

 

[Arkaign]

Exactly. It's not so much that Honda has gotten worse, it's that everyone who has been chasing them for years is finally catching up. GM of the 80's cut corners everywhere and their cars were complete garbage as a result, to the point of sending their customers looking elsewhere for a better car. Industry wide reliability and quality has improved remarkably in the last 20 years. Ignoring looks, which is a personal thing, there are very few truly bad cars today in the US market. Today's Hondas are certainly good enough to keep their customers coming back. Barring some unforseen change in the attitude of their customers or significant technological shift that catches Honda off guard they aren't going to lose customers in droves like the Big 3 did in the 80's and 90's.

I think overall this is correct, though one must never forget transmission-gate of the early 00's, when TONS of the vehicles with the v6's were shitting out their autos. The manuals were still fine of course

The other thing though is that Honda seems to have stalled in innovation and design. Where other cars have taken epic leaps forward, being in a 2011 Honda is just about like being in a 2004-2005 Honda. In an industry that is constantly filled with quality/feature improvements now, they're idling. The new Civic is a great example of this. It was okay for debut in '06, perhaps even near the top of the compact class. Then came the focus of many mfg's on compacts due to increasing fuel costs, and Honda has sat on their hands. The new Civic is a marginal vehicle it seems, really no more than a refresh. Fuel economy? Hardly any gain. Power? Hardly any gain. Features? Hardly any gain. Pricing? Not so competitive now.