One more bit of Republican mythology shot down

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
348
126
I've often debunked some of the right-wing's fallacies that lead to false mythologies, and ran across another today I'll pass along.

One of the most famous of Reagan's quips was in the debate with President Carter where he chided Carter, 'There you go again'. Reagan was an actor, and well able to 'look good' in that sort of setting, and he scored a lot of points by not only making Carter look like he was a politician lying about Reagan's position, but more broadly implying that a lot of Reagan's reputation for extreme positions was not accurate. He looked like the 'honest outsider' chiding Carter for not telling the truth, and the public warmed to him.

The detail I hadn't kept track of was that the quip was in response to Carter saying that Reagan would try to cut Medicare spending.

The funny thing is, the moment Reagan had power, he tried to push through a $20B cut to Medicare.

So, the moral the right takes from the story is that Reagan was a great leader who beat Carter in the debate in part with that line; the more important lesson they should take from the incident is that they are once again giving credit to the Republican for a lie. It's just remarkable how little facts have to do with the views of so many on the right.

If a democrat had entangled us with a nation by having it illegally help us sell missiles to Iran, you wouldn't hear the end of it (as Reagan did with Israel). What harm in that? Well, next thing the US is doing is sending the Marines in to help Israel invade Lebanon. If a democrat had done that and then pulled them out when one bomber got through, you wouldn't hear the end of that either, 'cut and run', cowardice, disgrace, emboldening the enemy - but the righties learn neither the lesson of hypocrisy or unjustified invasion.

I think it's worth correcting some myths in our political culture, and that it's worth correcting the common myth that Reagan's 'there you go again' rebuttal was a strong point for him, rather than what it actually was, a lie told effectively that helped him get the power to help the rich - and an act against democracy insofar as the public has the right to an accurate idea of what its candidates will do. Being 'Teflon' for 'getting away' with lies should be a strong condemnation of a politician, not a compliment, in a democracy.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: Craig234
I've often debunked some of the right-wing's fallacies that lead to false mythologies....

-snip-

Why open a "myth debunking" thread with a myth of your own?

Fern
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Your problem appears to be that you are completely partisan. In your eyes, everything R's do is wrong and everything that D's do is right, regardless of the merits of either. It's kind of sad, really. Read the quote in my sig and try to rethink your world view unless you're content to continue as a "small mind," according to a famous Democrat, whose opinion you obviously will take as the gospel truth.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
How dare you. Regan was the greatest man since Christ. He did nothing wrong. If we could only ressurect him, we'd have the best president ever. He could maybe even double the national debt again in 8 years, yaye regan!
 

m1ldslide1

Platinum Member
Feb 20, 2006
2,321
0
0
Read any Chomsky or Zinn yet craig? It's hard to remain very partisan when both sides are held accountable for their actions within the same text.
 

superstition

Platinum Member
Feb 2, 2008
2,219
221
101
Originally posted by: Skoorb
How dare you. Regan was the greatest man since Christ. He did nothing wrong. If we could only ressurect him, we'd have the best president ever. He could maybe even double the national debt again in 8 years, yaye regan!
Well Bush managed not only to hit the 2 trillion budget mark, but just put forth a 3 trillion budget. Reagan only managed to make one record (1 trillion).
 

BladeVenom

Lifer
Jun 2, 2005
13,540
16
0
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: Craig234
I've often debunked some of the right-wing's fallacies that lead to false mythologies....

-snip-

Why open a "myth debunking" thread with a myth of your own?

Fern

LOL! Funny, but true.
 

superstition

Platinum Member
Feb 2, 2008
2,219
221
101
Originally posted by: CycloWizardYour problem appears to be that you are completely partisan. In your eyes, everything R's do is wrong and everything that D's do is right...
Actually, that's irrelevant. What matters is the logic, not the person saying it. Analyze the logic alone.

It's common for people to get caught up in personality analysis (also known as ad hominem or shoot the messenger) when they should instead be focused on the action(s) or logic presented.

Why open a "myth debunking" thread with a myth of your own?
Humorous, but again not very relevant.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
348
126
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Your problem appears to be that you are completely partisan. In your eyes, everything R's do is wrong and everything that D's do is right, regardless of the merits of either. It's kind of sad, really. Read the quote in my sig and try to rethink your world view unless you're content to continue as a "small mind," according to a famous Democrat, whose opinion you obviously will take as the gospel truth.

Well, that's completely false. There's nothing 'partisan' about it. And in fact, your inability to be wrong civilly makes you not only look the fool, but likely actually be the fool.

You are not alone in confusing the difference between choices, and 'partisanship'.

If I'd posted that Reagan had got us into Vietnam and Bill Clinton cured cancer, you would have a point. I didn't, and you don't.

I don't think R's are all bad or D's all good, and have never said so, as many times as the foolish have made the false claim.

I do prefer the D's overall to the R's, strongly, and say why, which oh by the way is sort of the purpose of this board, not your personal lying snipes.

But you are, sadly, projecting.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
348
126
Originally posted by: BladeVenom
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: Craig234
I've often debunked some of the right-wing's fallacies that lead to false mythologies....

-snip-

Why open a "myth debunking" thread with a myth of your own?

Fern

LOL! Funny, but true.

Not funny, and not true; here's a hint for you - like the large majority of such righty snipe attempts, note the lack of specifics. What, exactly, is the 'myth' I made?

Note further the utter absence of any acknowledgment of the fact the thread is about, and the gall of the people who are so partisan as to ignore it, to say someone else is 'partisan'.

And yet, the sheeple R's show up to add a little smiley, a little one word type post, endorsing the lie, because it agrees with their ideology, acting as the culties they are.
 

tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,537
6,970
136
the truth. the facts. logic. justice.

the sworn archenemies of those that have so many things to hide and be ashamed of.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Your problem appears to be that you are completely partisan. In your eyes, everything R's do is wrong and everything that D's do is right, regardless of the merits of either. It's kind of sad, really.
Quoted For Absolute Truth!


btw, Craig, thanks for the 1987 flashback! :roll:
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Originally posted by: superstition
Actually, that's irrelevant. What matters is the logic, not the person saying it. Analyze the logic alone.
That IS his logic, if you can even call it that: R is wrong, D is right. You were more interested in throwing fallacies at me than reading for comprehension. :p
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Originally posted by: Craig234
Well, that's completely false. There's nothing 'partisan' about it. And in fact, your inability to be wrong civilly makes you not only look the fool, but likely actually be the fool.

You are not alone in confusing the difference between choices, and 'partisanship'.

If I'd posted that Reagan had got us into Vietnam and Bill Clinton cured cancer, you would have a point. I didn't, and you don't.

I don't think R's are all bad or D's all good, and have never said so, as many times as the foolish have made the false claim.

I do prefer the D's overall to the R's, strongly, and say why, which oh by the way is sort of the purpose of this board, not your personal lying snipes.

But you are, sadly, projecting.
Your entire OP is a sad attempt to use one random example as a hasty generalization of an entire political party. You then use this ridiculous proposition as a foundation for assigning the exact opposite position (i.e. that of righteous forthrightness) to the opposing party. Your choosing to be partisan doesn't make you any less partisan.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Your problem appears to be that you are completely partisan. In your eyes, everything R's do is wrong and everything that D's do is right, regardless of the merits of either. It's kind of sad, really. Read the quote in my sig and try to rethink your world view unless you're content to continue as a "small mind," according to a famous Democrat, whose opinion you obviously will take as the gospel truth.

Er, aren't you doing pretty much the same thing you're accusing Craig234 of doing? Rather than focusing on the merits of what he's saying, you're attacking him as a person.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Er, aren't you doing pretty much the same thing you're accusing Craig234 of doing? Rather than focusing on the merits of what he's saying, you're attacking him as a person.
Because of the way he broached the topic, I can only conclude that there are no merits to what he's saying. That's my point.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
348
126
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: superstition
Actually, that's irrelevant. What matters is the logic, not the person saying it. Analyze the logic alone.
That IS his logic, if you can even call it that: R is wrong, D is right. You were more interested in throwing fallacies at me than reading for comprehension. :p

No, it's not my logic, and it's not even my universal conclusion as you dishonestly misrepresent it. You are not following the logic at all, earning you the irony of the week award for criticizing someone else's 'reading comprehension'. The fact that I see such a pattern of these misrepresentations heavily on the side of the Republicans doesn't mean that I just made up the facts. Rather, you are the one ignoring the facts, with no interest in them, only in your own partisanship. Note, for instance, you STILL haven't said a word on the thread topic.