One in four New Yorkers get free health care from Medicaid. Outrageous!

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Carmen813

Diamond Member
May 18, 2007
3,189
0
76
Yeah, and I am not saying that cancer is one of the major illnesses that can be prevented. Maybe someday in the future we'll have a better grasp on causes of cancer, but for the most part we still don't know too much about it.

What I AM talking about, are the myriad of preventable conditions that we DO know more about, we know the risk factors, we know what increases your risk, and we know what people can do to mitigate their risk. Will it prevent 100% of all cases? No... but we can statistically reduce the occurrence of such diseases to a significant degree, taking that burden off of the medical system.

If I am going broke because it costs $10,000 for treatment every time I shoot myself in the foot... should we be focusing on reducing what it costs to treat me, or on stopping me from shooting my foot off?

Prevention and life style changes are important. However, any time politicians try to address life style through law (say a tax on soda) they are attacked. My guess is that education is the best chance to change things, but even that requires a willingness to change.

There are also real problems with people in inner cities not have access to quality food. It's not a coincidence that you find fast food restaurants in proliferation in inner cities.

I personally feel mental health needs to be addressed as well. Poor mental health is a good predictor of poor physical health. This then leads to a spiral that compounds health issues even further.
 
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Carmen813

Diamond Member
May 18, 2007
3,189
0
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Is that true? 8 to 9K for a house that is less than 200K? :$

My friend in North Austin, TX is paying around 4K for a nice house of 200K and my relative in Louisiana is paying about 1.5K for a 190K house.

Property taxes in NYS are ridiculous. Our state government is full of fools.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
Not to mention that its recipients have no financial motivation to reduce their risks. As long as someone else is paying the bill, no one cares how much it costs.
Obesity rate in America where nothing is free - 34% in adults (I just skimmed this article, link)

Obesity rate in Sweden where nobody pays for their own shit - 9% (link)

Damn free healthcare. Look at how people just don't give a fuck anymore.
 

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,559
8
0
Obesity in the US is cultural. If you look at the basic consumerist idea that the more you have, eat, own, the happier you are the more those obesity numbers make sense. You cant blame fatty foods since lots of cultures like French, Italian, etc have very high calorie foods but dont gorge themselves on it at every opportunity.

Culturally the US is moving away from the centralized family dinners that are cooked at home because we are too busy working 10-12 hours to come home and even see our families. In Italy for instance everyone goes home for a 2 hour lunch with the family and dines with them as well.

The erosion of the family isnt because of debauchery or any significant moral problem. Its because people can barely make ends meet and usually take a quick fix food solution like fast food because they dont have the time or energy to do it at home.

If you removed fast food from the american lexicon obesity numbers would go down in a heartbeat.. you could leave mom and pop bbq joints, sammich shops, etc and still see a significant reduction in obesity numbers.
Frozen food is just as bad.....
 

Mr. Lennon

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2004
3,492
1
81
Obesity in the US is cultural. If you look at the basic consumerist idea that the more you have, eat, own, the happier you are the more those obesity numbers make sense. You cant blame fatty foods since lots of cultures like French, Italian, etc have very high calorie foods but dont gorge themselves on it at every opportunity.

Culturally the US is moving away from the centralized family dinners that are cooked at home because we are too busy working 10-12 hours to come home and even see our families. In Italy for instance everyone goes home for a 2 hour lunch with the family and dines with them as well.

The erosion of the family isnt because of debauchery or any significant moral problem. Its because people can barely make ends meet and usually take a quick fix food solution like fast food because they dont have the time or energy to do it at home.

If you removed fast food from the american lexicon obesity numbers would go down in a heartbeat.. you could leave mom and pop bbq joints, sammich shops, etc and still see a significant reduction in obesity numbers.
Frozen food is just as bad.....

It's not just fast food. It's the fact that you don't even have to get out of the fucking car to actually get the food. The only exercise these people get is walking to and from their car parked right outside their home/work.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
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It's not just fast food. It's the fact that you don't even have to get out of the fucking car to actually get the food. The only exercise these people get is walking to and from their car parked right outside their home/work.

Sex counts as exercise too. It always leaves me out of breath and thirsty and my butt hurts like crazy for hours afterward.
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
3
76
Property taxes in NYS are ridiculous. Our state government is full of fools.
Property Taxes anywhere, and for any amount, are outrageous.

They force people to sell there land.

If that's not outrageous, I don't know what is.

-John
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Obesity rate in America where nothing is free - 34% in adults (I just skimmed this article, link)

Obesity rate in Sweden where nobody pays for their own shit - 9% (link)

Damn free healthcare. Look at how people just don't give a fuck anymore.
Amazing how we're discussing people who do get free healthcare in the US, yet you're still ignorant enough to say that you list obesity rates in the US where nothing is free.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
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What part of "and other large corps" did you not understand. I even gave a link showing states have a lot of people on Medicad, Food stamps, etc... but they have full time jobs.

Employees of big companies fill Ohio's Medicaid, food stamp rolls, report says

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news...caid-food-stamp-rolls-report-says-323224.html
According to that article there are 2 million people in Ohio's medicaid system.

The ten biggest corps listed have a total of 58,000 people on Medicaid. Where are the other 1,941,457 people coming from????


The state spends $3 billion per year on Medicaid, of which $28 million went to people working for the 50 largest cops on the list.

Do the math. These large companies don't even amount to 1% of all costs!!!! One percent!!!!!

You could pass a law making illegal for them to receive Medicaid and it wouldn't make a difference to the budget in the long run.
 
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ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Perhaps if you had done some fact-checking, you'd know that Walmart pays far more in taxes than is consumed by its employees' use of government programs. Walmart paid about $6 billion in taxes (by far the most of any corporation according to CNN) while their employees used about $1.58 billion in government services (according to a 2005 documentary). So, if taxes weren't taking $6 billion per year from Walmart, maybe they would just pay for their employees' health insurance. Instead, they're playing by the rules of the game - the rules that liberals made. It's simply disingenuous to support these government programs then get outraged at the fact that companies are using them while footing the bill.
Great point...

In the state of Ohio Walmart paid over $500 million in sales and local taxes in FY 2010. WAY more than what their employees collected in free medical care from the state.
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
Is that true? 8 to 9K for a house that is less than 200K? :$

My friend in North Austin, TX is paying around 4K for a nice house of 200K and my relative in Louisiana is paying about 1.5K for a 190K house.

yes buts its area dependent, we live in the middle of fucking nowhere in a town of 6k and ours is 5k on a ~200k house
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
Great point...

In the state of Ohio Walmart paid over $500 million in sales and local taxes in FY 2010. WAY more than what their employees collected in free medical care from the state.
Walmart doesn't pay sales tax. Shoppers pay sales tax. Walmart just collects it and sends it to the state.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
Amazing how we're discussing people who do get free healthcare in the US, yet you're still ignorant enough to say that you list obesity rates in the US where nothing is free.
Fine, be a big cry baby about little details.

America, where 3/4 new yorkers pay for their own meds - 34% obesity rate
Sweden, where nobody pays for their own meds - 9% obesity rate

Are you happy now?
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Fine, be a big cry baby about little details.

America, where 3/4 new yorkers pay for their own meds - 34% obesity rate
Sweden, where nobody pays for their own meds - 9% obesity rate

Are you happy now?
I'm a crybaby for pointing out that you simply invent facts to suit your position? Really? I don't suppose you've ever heard of statistics, either, otherwise you'd know how ridiculous your comparison is. What fraction of people in NY of Swedish ancestry are overweight? I'm sure you learned this at some point, as you claim to be so educated.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
I'm a crybaby for pointing out that you simply invent facts to suit your position? Really? I don't suppose you've ever heard of statistics, either, otherwise you'd know how ridiculous your comparison is. What fraction of people in NY of Swedish ancestry are overweight? I'm sure you learned this at some point, as you claim to be so educated.

LOL
That is by far the worst argument I have ever seen.

African obesity rate in America - extremely high
African obesity rate in Africa - almost zero

It's gotta be those genetics that make people skinny.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
LOL
That is by far the worst argument I have ever seen.

African obesity rate in America - extremely high
African obesity rate in Africa - almost zero

It's gotta be those genetics that make people skinny.
Genetics is one risk factor for obesity...at least if you believe in science.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
From your posting history in this thread, I can see you're very young and ignorant. I feel sorry for you, so I will enlighten you.

If LESS PEOPLE GET SICK.... there will be LESS DEMAND FOR MEDICAL SERVICES. If there is LESS DEMAND... EXPENDITURES WILL GO DOWN. There is a LIMITED SUPPLY of medical service in the world, and an almost UNLIMITED DEMAND.

A very small percentage of the population understands this. Very small. The rest, like you, seem to think that a person's health is a result of some unseen power, on which they have absolutely no influence.

If 100 people have lung cancer, and it costs the government $10,000 to treat each one of them, do you think that it should only cost $5,000 to treat 200 people? That's what you are saying. Think about it.
This will eventually happen. Government will drive out all private insurance companies. Government will fail even more spectacularly at health care for everyone as it does with Medicare/Medicaid. Government will outsource health care to WalMart.

Try to look directly into the video conferencing camera so Doctor Xiaping can diagnose you correctly, comrade citizen.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Obesity in the US is cultural. If you look at the basic consumerist idea that the more you have, eat, own, the happier you are the more those obesity numbers make sense. You cant blame fatty foods since lots of cultures like French, Italian, etc have very high calorie foods but dont gorge themselves on it at every opportunity.

Culturally the US is moving away from the centralized family dinners that are cooked at home because we are too busy working 10-12 hours to come home and even see our families. In Italy for instance everyone goes home for a 2 hour lunch with the family and dines with them as well.

The erosion of the family isnt because of debauchery or any significant moral problem. Its because people can barely make ends meet and usually take a quick fix food solution like fast food because they dont have the time or energy to do it at home.

If you removed fast food from the american lexicon obesity numbers would go down in a heartbeat.. you could leave mom and pop bbq joints, sammich shops, etc and still see a significant reduction in obesity numbers.
Frozen food is just as bad.....

Not true IME. I gained weight when I stopped exercising. In HS & college we had contests how many pizzas we could eat at pizza hut buffet, I could eat 3-4 pizzas in my prime... not a ounce of fat because I wrestled, ran track and played football....track didn't help much because I ran short distance - 100/200meters but the other did especially wrestling. After college I got a desk job, went to happy hour every night and basically started piling on the lard. What changed? I ate the same. Exercise of course. At 30 and 320lbs size 40 waist I said enough is enough and started running again. I still ate the same but shed all that lard just by keeping HR in zone 4 for 45min a day.. It was tough at first. I'd run for 300 yrds then have to walk for 300 yrds then run then walk to prevent heart from exploding however after 2 month I could run whole time. I eat what I want but don't like sweets or alcohol two big contributors from what I understand. Today I'm college weight of 245 with 34-36 waist almost 40 yrs old.
 
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Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
LOL
That is by far the worst argument I have ever seen.

African obesity rate in America - extremely high
African obesity rate in Africa - almost zero

It's gotta be those genetics that make people skinny.

Genetics of disposable income, A/C and sloth.
 

PeshakJang

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2010
2,276
0
0
Prevention and life style changes are important. However, any time politicians try to address life style through law (say a tax on soda) they are attacked. My guess is that education is the best chance to change things, but even that requires a willingness to change.

Oh, I agree. I don't think the government can force people to be healthy. My main objection is to the government "rewarding" people for being unhealthy.

I personally feel mental health needs to be addressed as well. Poor mental health is a good predictor of poor physical health. This then leads to a spiral that compounds health issues even further.

I think each begets the other. Studies have shown that one of the best ways to prevent depression and other mood disorders is... *shock*... a healthy lifestyle including diet and exercise. Of course, there are mental disorders, genetic factors, etc., that predispose people to eating more or gaining weight, but too often they are just used as easy excuses.
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
3
76
That's a huge post PeshakJang,

I do think forced exercise programs like we see in North Korea, are good for people.

-John
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
The amount of waste and abuse in the medicaid system would probably make you sick yourself. I see it every day. Your problem, like many people's, is the same problem with the new health care bill. You think as long as *something* is done, it's good. It doesn't matter how awful a system it is, it doesn't matter how much money it costs, it doesn't matter how little oversight there is.... as long as it makes you feel good, it's the right thing to do.



So why don't you go out and buy them their medication?

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=9722

7 cents a pill for .5 mg. You can get them 500 pills for $35, and they can go live a productive life.

If you and your friends can't afford $35 for a life changing prescription, then I am sorry, you're all fucked. I'm sure they could take 5 minutes and find something for $35 that they don't need otherwise. Don't tell me you can't pay any fucking taxes, then tell me I need to pay for your friends' $35 pills.

How about the dozens of dr visits, specialist visits and lab work?

Are those 7 cents a pop too?

Do you know how hard it is to regulate thyroid function?
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
Great point...

In the state of Ohio Walmart paid over $500 million in sales and local taxes in FY 2010. WAY more than what their employees collected in free medical care from the state.

Rofl.

http://ufcw.blogspot.com/2009/09/walmart-tops-state-assistance-rolls-in.html

and

http://walmartstores.com/pressroom/StateByState/State.aspx?st=OH

Walmart paid more than $70.5 million in state and local taxes in the state of Ohio in FYE 2010.

I could go on and on about Walmart. The impact they have in the United States is enormously negative overall.