One cop killed, others injured serving "no knock" warrant

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positivedoppler

Golden Member
Apr 30, 2012
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Victorian Gray

Lifer
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
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Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
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Rebel_L said:
We restrict and tightly control many things in society that there is a demand for. Some are banned outright, some have tight controls (like narcotics, many of which are not banned just controlled by the medical profession). Cigarettes, alcohol, other drugs, and weapons, are probably the most common controlled and banned items if you don't consider the controls for food safety (where the demand is not so much for unsafe products, but cheaper products). Then we laws that restrict us specifically for personal safety, things like seatbelt laws, helmet laws, etc. (We also have laws for things other than personal safety of course)
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Is there a black market for not wearing safety belts? Everything you listed is regulated, not prohibited to the majority of the population.

As a society we have created a large set of rules and we have a social contract with other members of society to follow them in order to get along, survive, and thrive. We have processes in place for changing these laws as we recognize that our general view on things changes over time and the laws need to be able to adapt. Everyone under this social contract agrees to give up things they may want to have or wish to do at times, in order to participate in this thriving social structure. Those that do not agree to follow the social contract we call criminals our rules even has rules on how to handle that situation.

The problem with the war on drugs is not the laws or the enforcement of them, it is the unwillingness of those that want change to follow the social contract. Alcohol prohibition involved a large change to the social contract in a very short time frame and that did not go over well. Drug laws are currently maintaining the status quo making the problems rather unrelated other than in seeing what tactics organized crime uses to take advantage of society. That criminal elements take advantage of society wherever it is easiest for them should be expected, and thinking that organized crime will disappear rather than find another way to exploit society and continue to do so is naïve. If individuals of society do not hold up their end of that social contract there is no one to blame but those individuals.
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Eh you basically admit the drug laws in this country allows for criminal elements to take advantage of society. Now ask yourself why is drug trade so attractive to the criminal element.
 
Rebel_L

Rebel_L

Senior member
Nov 9, 2009
460
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Genx87 said:
Is there a black market for not wearing safety belts? Everything you listed is regulated, not prohibited to the majority of the population.
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There are many weapons prohibited for the majority of the population (if you cant think of any, think bigger), tobacco and alcohol are banned for a large chunk of the population based on age. Many narcotics are controlled and not outright banned, they just dont have the loose restrictions that alcohol or tobacco do.

Drugs are hardly unique in having black market, there is a black market for everything from t-shirts to slaves, even alcohol still has a perfectly thriving black market. Want to avoid paying tax on home repairs?, pay your handyman in cash. A black market develops for everything where not everyone can afford to have what they want, and in our consumer society that is pretty much everything. You can probably even find a shop that will illegally remove the seatbelts from your car so that you can avoid wearing your seatbelt because your vehicle doesn't actually have one.


Eh you basically admit the drug laws in this country allows for criminal elements to take advantage of society. Now ask yourself why is drug trade so attractive to the criminal element.
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I said criminals take advantage of society, society by its nature is something that can be taken advantage of. Criminals have done this long before drug concerns and will do so long after drug concerns. Drug concerns are a society issue and should be dealt with on that basis. Where the criminal element finds it easiest to exploit the rest of us is relevant only in how we attempt to deal with the criminal element, not in how we deal with each other.
 
Linux23

Linux23

Lifer
Apr 9, 2000
11,374
741
126
Darwin333 said:
For the last few years the Feds have been pushing pharma companies to make strong opiates like Oxy much harder to "abuse" and combined with local/state they have shut down a metric fuckton of the supply of pharmaceutical opiates on the black market.

This is a real world sitation with real world results, wanna know what the results are? A metric fuckton of increased heroin usage, including people ending up in the hospital or dead from overdoses. Unlike an Oxycontin or some other pharma drug, heroin doesn't have a standard purity/dosage. The same amount you took from the last batch you bought might be twice as much from the next batch.

So we have in fact curbed a lot of prescription opiate abuse, which was the intended goal, while simultaneously increasing heroin use. Umm, good job war on drugs??? Seriously bang up job on that one and a great benefit to society, right? It would have been cheaper to quite literally give the addicts free pills everyday and give them a bit of advice on how not to overdo it.
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Prime, example. Had a terrible cold. Kept coughing regardless of what over the counter cough syrup I took (I have certain restrictions). Went to the Doctor and she prescribed something with vicodin in it so that i could sleep at night.

Pharmacy gave me hell because a year ago I was on Percocets for a dental surgery (its all electronic now). I mean, WTF. It seems the people who actually need these types of medicines have to bend over backwards because the government think we abuse these drugs, while the abusers will probably move on to something way more dangerous to satisfy their fix.

Sad.
 
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Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,330
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The Merg said:
I would disagree here. The homeowner was not doing everything lawfully. He had drug paraphernalia in the house, which I realize is a point of contention, but he also had a firearm as a convicted felon.

- Merg
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No one does everything lawful, it simply isn't possible with the sheer number of laws we have on the books. Everyone breaks some sort of law every single day.
 
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Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,330
126
The Merg said:
I didn't say I completely support the system. What I did say is that the cops have to enforce the laws that they are given and if they say that "Drugs R Bad", well, then drugs are bad.

BTW, here's a very interesting article that you will like...

http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html

- Merg
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I was actually aware of that, as well as the results so far, but most times its brought up people argue that there hasn't been enough study or time or whatever. To a point, they have valid arguments but on the other side what they claim will happen if we legalize drugs most definitely has not happened there.

And my biggest problem is that cops are picking people to fuck with because of profit not because some politician said "drugs r bad". The .gov should never have a profit motivator to fuck with you or I. Police killed an innocent man in California because the police invented reasons to raid his house for the sole reason of trying to steal his property because it was very valuable. The people responsible for his death paid absolutely no consequences.

Would you care to know what the second largest source of revenue in Ferguson Mi was in 2013? Fines and court fees that's what, they issued 3 warrants for every single household in 2013. Hell even the courthouse uses shady tactics to make people get in more trouble so they have to pay even more money.
 
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Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,330
126
The Merg said:
The President would say otherwise...

- Merg
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The president technically belongs to the same branch of government as the police so I wouldn't think that would be the greatest response. Not to mention the fact that the president has used Federal agents to enforce laws that a vote of the people said they didn't want enforced in many states.
 
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Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,330
126
Linux23 said:
Prime, example. Had a terrible cold. Kept coughing regardless of what over the counter cough syrup I took (I have certain restrictions). Went to the Doctor and she prescribed something with vicodin in it so that i could sleep at night.

Pharmacy gave me hell because a year ago I was on Percocets for a dental surgery (its all electronic now). I mean, WTF. It seems the people who actually need these types of medicines have to bend over backwards because the government think we abuse these drugs, while the abusers will probably move on to something way more dangerous to satisfy their fix.

Sad.
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Exactly. I have read a bunch of reports that the new forms of the drugs they developed to stop people from abusing them are also less effective for the people that really need them. So great, not only did we not stop drug use, not only did we actually make the drug use worse but now we are fucking with sick and dying people. Imho, if you have terminal cancer you should be given basically a blank script for whatever the hell you want and as many as you want. Let people have a few good days/months or whatever until they die, it just seems like the right thing to do. Fucking them over because some other people are doing something wrong is cruel.

Big wtf on the pharmacy thing though. A year between the scripts and the pharmacy gives you shit?
 
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