One cop killed, others injured serving "no knock" warrant

[her209]

Accused Killeen Cop Killer Admits to Firing Shots
http://www.kcentv.com/story/25820963/accused-killeen-cop-killer-admits-to-firing-shots

No drugs found in raid that claimed the life of Texas police officer
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...hat-claimed-the-life-of-texas-police-officer/

Suspect Pleads Not Guilty in Texas Officer Slaying
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Suspect-Pleads-Not-Guilty-in-Texas-Officer-Slaying-266789641.html

Prosecutor Will Seek Death Penalty In Police Officer’s Death
http://www.kwtx.com/ourtown/home/he...nalty-In-Police-Officers-Death-274000421.html

Would you agree with the three capital murder charges against MLG even though no actual drugs were found in the 12-hour search? Does MLG have a right to defend his castle if he believed the armed men outside were burglars and not the police?

 

[compuwiz1]

Someone breaks into my house, they get shot, questions later. That said, not sure why in the hell they do stupid shit like no knock warrants. It's just plain risky to the officers involved and the practice needs to stop.

 

[theeedude]

He should get same punishment the cop would get if he shot him first. But because he's a black guy in Texas, he'll probably get an all white jury and the death penalty.

 

[Genx87]

Cant shed a tear for a cop killed in a no knock warrant raid that turned up no drugs. Im sure because it is texas he will get the death penalty. Because if you kill a cop in Texas you deserve the death penalty.

 

[TheSlamma]

He should get same punishment the cop would get if he shot him first. But because he's a black guy in Texas, he'll probably get an all white jury and the death penalty.

Sadly this is exactly what will happen

 

[master_shake_]

wait castle doctrine apply here?

cops word against his, article states cops announced who they were...doubtful but i wasn't there.

 

[theeedude]

Sadly this is exactly what will happen

The only thing he has going for him is that he's 49, so with appeals, he may well exceed the African American male life expectancy for Texas of about 70 years. In any case, it's better to be judged by twelve that carried by six, even if those twelve are not exactly your peers.

 

[Jaskalas]

He should get same punishment the cop would get if he shot him first. But because he's a black guy in Texas, he'll probably get an all white jury and the death penalty.

I stand by this man defending himself.

 

[The Merg]

Well, according to the article, it was not a no-knock warrant. The original affidavit was for a no-knock, but it was changed to a knock and announce. So, the cops knock on the door and announce and the guy shoots them while they are outside. Most departments even set a time frame that they have to wait after performing the knock before they can force entry.

- Merg

 

[dmcowen674]

The only thing he has going for him is that he's 49, so with appeals, he may well exceed the African American male life expectancy for Texas of about 70 years. In any case, it's better to be judged by twelve that carried by six, even if those twelve are not exactly your peers.

Meanwhile he sits in prison, his life already over.

 

[positivedoppler]

I wonder all those who defended Wilson and GZ arguing that there was not enough proof will now argue to convict guy. Based on the opinion of a lot of people on the Wilson case, any of the officers testimony should be thrown out because they show bias. Since Marvin was in house house committing no crime and there was no proof that any police officer warned him, he had a right to defend his home and he stands on higher ground than Florida's stand your ground law.

 

[Kadarin]

I'm white, and if I were on that jury I'd acquit.

 

[Fenixgoon]

While the warrant was a “no knock” warrant, the new affidavit states that officers “announced they were police officers while attempting to gain entry”. It then states gunshots came from inside the home, four officers were shot, and then Guy admitted to firing at people outside his home.

yeah, i'm sure "POLICE" was heard perfectly clearly as they busted the door down with whatever device (kick, battering ram, shooting of the lock), assuming they announced themselves in the first place.

self defense. totally reasonable.

also, what's up with there being a new affidavit (vs an old one)

 

[dmcowen674]

Well, according to the article, it was not a no-knock warrant. The original affidavit was for a no-knock, but it was changed to a knock and announce. So, the cops knock on the door and announce and the guy shoots them while they are outside. Most departments even set a time frame that they have to wait after performing the knock before they can force entry.

- Merg

I doubt they knocked and waited.

Is there video of this event?

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Well, according to the article, it was not a no-knock warrant. The original affidavit was for a no-knock, but it was changed to a knock and announce. So, the cops knock on the door and announce and the guy shoots them while they are outside. Most departments even set a time frame that they have to wait after performing the knock before they can force entry.

- Merg

Given the way police deal in facts, it would not surprise me in the least if it was changed to a knock and announce after the bodies had hit the floor and they made sure there was no recordings of the entry.

 

[The Merg]

They couldn't change it after the fact. The court would have a copy of the signed one from before the warrant was served.

And of course, criminals always deal with facts too, right?

- Merg

 

[shortylickens]

Someone breaks into my house, they get shot, questions later. That said, not sure why in the hell they do stupid shit like no knock warrants. It's just plain risky to the officers involved and the practice needs to stop.

In the case of drug raids its to ensure nobody has time to destroy the evidence. Though in this case I think we've proved thats poor logic.

They either got the wrong guy or the guy WAS able to destroy the evidence despite the swift invasion. So yeah, this crap needs to stop. It got an officer killed, and you can blame the civilian "criminal" to make it look good, but those of us who pay attention to the news will remember what really happened.

 

[The Merg]

I doubt they knocked and waited.

Is there video of this event?

Yes, because they want to unnecessarily risk their jobs and their lives to serve a search warrant by not knocking and announcing.

- Merg

 

[shortylickens]

I doubt they knocked and waited.

Is there video of this event?

If there were I bet it disappears before it has a chance to make the police look bad.

 

[shortylickens]

Accused Killeen Cop Killer Admits to Firing Shots
http://www.kcentv.com/story/25820963/accused-killeen-cop-killer-admits-to-firing-shots

No drugs found in raid that claimed the life of Texas police officer
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...hat-claimed-the-life-of-texas-police-officer/

Suspect Pleads Not Guilty in Texas Officer Slaying
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Suspect-Pleads-Not-Guilty-in-Texas-Officer-Slaying-266789641.html

Prosecutor Will Seek Death Penalty In Police Officer’s Death
http://www.kwtx.com/ourtown/home/he...nalty-In-Police-Officers-Death-274000421.html

Would you agree with the three capital murder charges against MLG even though no actual drugs were found in the 12-hour search? Does MLG have a right to defend his castle if he believed the armed men outside were burglars and not the police?

I must be a drug dealer.

I have a 9mm pistol. We have more than one cell phone in the house. We have a pair of walkie-talkies.
We do have a grinder (assuming they mean the kind with a wheel and a power cord and a clear plastic shield).
We have various instruments in the house which COULD be used to pass smoke into lungs.

Laptop?

Oh fuck yes.

 

[Rakehellion]

Without clicking the link, I'm guessing the guy was white since he was arrested and not shot on the scene.

 

[The Merg]

I must be a drug dealer.

I have a 9mm pistol. We have more than one cell phone in the house. We have a pair of walkie-talkies.
We do have a grinder (assuming they mean the kind with a wheel and a power cord and a clear plastic shield).
We have various instruments in the house which COULD be used to pass smoke into lungs.

Laptop?

Oh fuck yes.

Do you also have a smoking device for weed? Also, the grinder was of the type that is specifically for grinding up weed.

What I'd like to know is what was in the safe that was seized as part of the warrant. I can't find anything that says what was in it.

- Merg

 

[shortylickens]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ome-justice-in-texas-the-raid-on-henry-magee/

DeGuerin says the aggressive tactics were completely unnecessary. “The justification for using this sort of force was that they needed to get in before he could dispose of the evidence. But they thought he had six-foot marijuana plants. How could he have disposed of them?”

Also, theres nothing that says you cant announce you are police with a warrant, count to 3, and then bash the door.

 

[The Merg]

In the case of drug raids its to ensure nobody has time to destroy the evidence. Though in this case I think we've proved thats poor logic.

They either got the wrong guy or the guy WAS able to destroy the evidence despite the swift invasion. So yeah, this crap needs to stop. It got an officer killed, and you can blame the civilian "criminal" to make it look good, but those of us who pay attention to the news will remember what really happened.

True, but lets look at some other things as well.

1. A no-knock warrant does not mean no-announce. The idea is that entry is made and as they enter the residence you announce.

2. If they do serve a no-knock warrant, it is usually at a time when everyone is asleep. This gives the cops the greatest element of surprise and gives people the least opportunity to arm themselves or destroy evidence. (In this case, it was 5:30 AM.)

3. Cops can usually sneak up on a house without issue when serving the no-knock warrants.

4. In this case, the cops were shot outside.

5. For whatever reason, in this case, they were breaching a window and not the door. I'd be interested to know why this was done, although sometimes a window will be breached as a distraction for the officers breaching the door. A flashbang was recovered as part of the search warrant, so it could be that they were attempting to deploy that when the shooting happened.

http://www.policestateusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/marvin-louis-guy-1-1024x576.jpg

6. Guy was also a convicted felon and should not have been in possession of a handgun, so he was in fact a criminal and not a "criminal".

7. We still don't know what was found in the safe. Those items will also need to be documented (or the fact that it was empty).


Here are a copy of the affidavits (both for the search warrant after the shooting and the original search warrant). The original one is very detailed in what Guy was observed doing prior to the warrant being obtained.

http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/FR000000.pdf

Let's also look at the idea of what might happen if officers don't use a no-knock warrant. You have armed criminals with evidence of their crimes. The officers knock and announce and wait. The criminal destroys the evidence and opens the door leaving the officers to find nothing and then everyone gets in an uproar that the officers searched a residence without finding anything so the officers must be harrassing this fine citizen. Or, the criminals decide to fight their way out as they don't want to go to jail and now have time to get set up defensively to attack the police as they enter the house.

No-knock warrants have their time and place to be used. While you are not going to use it for a search for records and documents of a guy committing credit card fraud, it might be justifiable when performing a search of a house for someone that is suspected of distribution of cocaine, is a felon, and is normally armed.

- Merg

 

[PokerGuy]

Hard to tell how things really went down in this particular case, but it just reinforces my dislike of the entire concept of "no-knock" warrants. Perhaps there are some very very unique and specific circumstances where there is a use for them, but I find them generally to be a terrible idea, and I oppose them from a practical and principle perspective.