One APU to rule the video card market?

[Olikan]

nVidia GPUs will be those lasting the longest as it is today.

actually....i see the apus saving it's low end gpus

http://techreport.com/news/24187/haswell-integrated-graphics-keeps-up-with-geforce-gt-650m

 

[psoomah]

Would you care to cite this "reliable prediction"? I dont even recall this outlandish prediction in even AMDs most optimistic PR slides.

Uh, Pulled Straight Out Of My Ass Hat?

 

[ShintaiDK]

actually....i see the apus saving it's low end gpus

http://techreport.com/news/24187/haswell-integrated-graphics-keeps-up-with-geforce-gt-650m

Thats an IGP, not APU.

And I was talking in terms of AMD discrete cards or nVidia discrete cards. Remember, the IGP is nothing but added value. And losing the discrete segment will also hurt AMDs development badly. Right now the CPU division gets the tech for free.

 

[ShintaiDK]

'AMD's utter failure in the GPU division' = hyperbolic nonsense unrelated to factual reality.

AMD is taking the necessary steps to survive through 2013 and thrive thereafter. Whether that succeeds depends more on the teetering world economies and financial system, which, if another collapse occurs, will dwarf what happened in 2008 and will probably take AMD down, along with myriad other companies, tech and otherwise.

My posts address not who will be lasting 'as it is today', but who will be lasting 'as it will be tomorrow'.

It's a simple projection based on a set of solidly based assumptions - AMD supplying the CPU and GPU with advanced technologies for the next gen consoles and the middleware and developments tools for implementing those technologies while releasing a line of APU's containing those same technologies concurrent with the console releases give AMD substantial competitive advantages against Intel and Nvidia into the future. Assuming the validity of those assumptions, the conclusion is so manifestly logically true sincere denial of it verges on insanity.

While the same advantages that provided AMD inclusion in the Xbox 720 and PS4 would be in play in competing for the Steam Box console, who won that contract is unknown. It is however manifest that if AMD did secure that contract, they would achieve overwhelming advantage in the console and PC gaming spaces.

I showed you the numbers. You showed...nothing.

 

[psoomah]

actually....i see the apus saving it's low end gpus

http://techreport.com/news/24187/haswell-integrated-graphics-keeps-up-with-geforce-gt-650m

Not sure how you arrived at that conclusion.

If ... "So is keeping up with the GeForce GT 650M, which is a mid-range part with 384 ALUs, a 128-bit path to dedicated memory, and GPU clock speeds as high as 900MHz. The 650M is Nvidia's fastest GT-series mobile part, and it's the same chip used in Apple's Retina-equipped 15" MacBook Pro." ... is true wouldn't Haswell make all Nvidia mobile 650M and below graphic parts unnecessary on the Intel side and Kaveri do at least the same on the AMD side?

 

[psoomah]

I showed you the numbers. You showed...nothing.

You showed me AMD total revenues year on year.

You showed me nothing to support 'AMD's utter failure in the GPU division'.

At least bring a limp noodle to the gunfight.

 

[ShintaiDK]

You showed me AMD total revenues year on year.

You showed me nothing to support 'AMD's utter failure in the GPU division'.

At least bring a limp noodle to the gunfight.

Total revenue also affects the R&D budgets. I doubt AMD currently can afford to even make 20nm chip designs.

How was Q3 2012?

"AMD’s market share in desktop computers in the quarter decline from 40.7% in Q2 to 35.7%, while Nvidia’s rose from 59.3% to 64.3%. In notebook computers, AMD’s share fell more dramatically, from 44.8% to 34.2%, while Nvidia’s share rose from 55.2% to 65.8%."

How is AMDs GPU division results for Q3? Compare to a year back as well
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6383/amd-q3-2012-earnings-157m-loss-15-of-workforce-to-be-cut

The HD7xxx series is an utter flop marketshare and revenue wise.

Its just a downhill spiral for a dying company. A company you predict will....create a miracle?

 

[sontin]

It's his job to predict this. He did it in the past and he will do it in the future.

For example:

With Lucid's Virtu software bypassing Nvidia's Optimus lock on Intel, Nvidia is facing a laptop and mass market desktop OEM situation where it has no distinct competitive edge while AMD has a substantial competitive edge.

Don't see how Nvidia doesn't lose substantial OEM sales by this time next year.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2157753&highlight=

All of these points mitigate against Nvidia's consumer graphics and AIB future in general and Kepler and Maxwell in particular. Facing the impending release of NI, Nvidia is likely to keep losing mindshare and marketshare until Kepler comes out, presumedly in late 2011, by which time Fusion will be well launched. In another two years Nvidia will be effectively locked out of the AMD platform altogether. They'll still have Intel, but that AMD mind and market share and almost certain continuing ferocious price/performance competition from AMD isn't going to allow that to be very profitable.

Where is the future for Kepler and Maxwell in the AIB market?

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2110055&highlight=

NVidia's long time cash cow mobile and mass market OEM graphics business and low end discrete board market will be pretty much dead in the water by this time next year

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2179934&highlight=

 

[SirPauly]

I guess those statements were based on common sense and simple logic, too! Just a tad bit off! The technology landscape is volatile and hard to determine based on unreleased products and technology, imho!

 

[f1sherman]

It's his job to predict this. He did it in the past and he will do it in the future.

Anyway all that was... before.

OP is proposing to start fresh in a world where his imagination is all it takes to feed

AMD 800 lb gorilla

Never mind physics, lost faith from investors, constant loss of company value, total live-or-die-exposure to PC/X86/MS, never mind debt, near-bankruptcy, or lack of cash even if there was a winning card.

And never mind him being wrong on everything else so far

 

[Ferzerp]

You showed me AMD total revenues year on year.

You showed me nothing to support 'AMD's utter failure in the GPU division'.

At least bring a limp noodle to the gunfight.

Calling this thread a "gun fight" is like calling two worms fighting to the death on a water-soaked sidewalk "global thermonuclear war".

 

[ShintaiDK]

It's his job to predict this. He did it in the past and he will do it in the future.

For example:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2157753&highlight=


http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2110055&highlight=


http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2179934&highlight=

Thats pure ownage.

It was obvious what his intend was, this is just the nail.

 

[Ferzerp]

The problem is, instead of evaluating facts, far too many people just go by what they *desire* to happen, and state it as truth.

The OP has absolutely no backing, and made this silly prediction without an understanding of the market, the relative sizes of the companies involved, or the way AMD is performing (as evidenced by his ignorance that the entirety of AMD is now priced at only a small fraction of what they spent on ATI not too many years ago).

As IDC posted recently, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Unfortunately, the OP doesn't fathom this, and is just trying to shift the burden of proof to others, despite being the one making ludicrous claims.

 

[SirPauly]

I still agree with this point though from the same thread that Sontin offered:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=32045475&postcount=51

From Repi:

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1535975&postcount=8

 

[psoomah]

You're all corvid bound!

:twisted: Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha!! :twisted:

 

[NTMBK]

You're all corvid bound!

:twisted: Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha!! :twisted:

...errm. Wut.

 

[Ferzerp]

...errm. Wut.

The troll has found a thesaurus and thinks using it is equivalent to having wit.

 

[psoomah]

I'll grant I have (sometimes substantial) timing issues, but not trajectory issues.

Haswell, Kaveri, Kabini and Temash are part of a trajectory that spells certain doom for Nvidia's x86 OEM business. There can be no other sane conclusion. It's only a matter of time and Haswell's graphic prowess say that time is running out faster than slower.

To deny AMD providing the CPU and GPU in the Xbox 720 and PS4 will provide substantial advantages for it's future APUs and GPUs is nonsensical. It's manifestly obvious Nvidia will have no seat at the console game development table, that seat is all AMD all the time, it's irrational to think that doesn't give AMD substantial advantage in PC ports that it will use to give advantage to it's new Kaveri line of APUs. If the consoles are using Kaveri based 'semi-custom APUs' that advantage increases substantially.

Nvidia is pretty far from the center of next gen action and that's not going to improve into the foreseeable future for consoles and x86 PC games.

Nvidia will regain some leverage if it ends up in Steam Box, if it doesn't what leverage CAN it have with game developers? The x86 AND Linux gaming future would belong to AMD leaving Nvidia out in the wintery cold looking in the window at the warm cheery gaming scene.

We'll know soon enough is Nvidia has ANY chance to stay relevant in PC gaming.

 

[psoomah]

Heh, retired, fixed income, hermit by necessity, deeply rural North Dakota, dead of winter, 10 below and windy outside ... I sidestep boredom and find amusement as I can. Not that it's easy on these forums, but I work with what I've got.

Sincerely,

Pulled Straight Out Of My Ass Hat.

 

[Torn Mind]

The A10-5800K is in Ivy Bridge i3 territory performance-wise.
The next gen might be in Haswell i3 territory.

The next GPU will likely be an 86xxD, meaning that it is below 87xx, 88xx, and 89xx GPUs.

Naturally, the most demanding games will still require an i5 or higher, a 88xx or higherto play at higher resolutions. Hell, multi-core scaling might even be more prominent.

Hence it is purely for those willing to compromise many things in their gaming experience. The CPU bottlenecking the GPU, the GPU being weak, and memory bottlenecking the GPU will not be cleared adequately.

In other words, AMD is trying to sell at a high volume and at low margins to people in countries where techy parts are batshit expensive and the poor people have no choice but to turn to APUs to game.

And don't forget, non-gamers will go Intel for more CPU beef.

 

[psoomah]

The A10-5800K is in Ivy Bridge i3 territory performance-wise.

Hence it is purely for those willing to compromise many things in their gaming experience. The CPU bottlenecking the GPU, the GPU being weak, and memory bottlenecking the GPU will not be cleared adequately.

In other words, AMD is trying to sell at a high volume and at low margins to people in countries where techy parts are batshit expensive and the poor people have no choice but to turn to APUs to game.

And don't forget, non-gamers will go Intel for more CPU beef.

http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/26280-kaveri-2013-fusion-supports-ddr3-2133

Really?

Steamroller cores, unified address space, common memory pool, GCN 2.0, DDR3 2133 capability ... are you really positing a 28nm Kaveri machine with all these brand new architectural enhancements running DDR3 2133 memory won't provide a solid midrange gaming experience?

If that doesn't ring the bell, there will be an approved cheap Dual Graphics (Hybrid Crossfire for APUs) AIB board that will bump that gaming experience into solid 'enthusiast' class. Say an I3-3240 ~ RD78700 combo.

 

[Olikan]

Not sure how you arrived at that conclusion.

If ... "So is keeping up with the GeForce GT 650M, which is a mid-range part with 384 ALUs, a 128-bit path to dedicated memory, and GPU clock speeds as high as 900MHz. The 650M is Nvidia's fastest GT-series mobile part, and it's the same chip used in Apple's Retina-equipped 15" MacBook Pro." ... is true wouldn't Haswell make all Nvidia mobile 650M and below graphic parts unnecessary on the Intel side and Kaveri do at least the same on the AMD side?

....i missed the part of hibrid crossfire

 

[f1sherman]

Heh, retired, fixed income, hermit by necessity, deeply rural North Dakota, dead of winter, -10 below and windy outside ... I sidestep boredom and find amusement as I can. Not that it's easy on these Forums, but I work with what I've got.

Sincerely,

Pulled Straight Out Of My Ass Hat.

Well at least you have the balls to come back to your thread after THAT

And through all this you remind me of the honey badger - YOU JUST DON'T CARE

 

[Torn Mind]

http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/26280-kaveri-2013-fusion-supports-ddr3-2133

Really?

Steamroller cores, unified address space, common memory pool, GCN 2.0, DDR3 2133 capability ... are you really positing a 28nm Kaveri machine with all these brand new architectural enhancements running DDR3 2133 memory won't provide a solid midrange gaming experience?

A x6xx in the same generation will always be worse than a x7xx. Those who don't mind turning down settings and compromising can have extra dollars to spend on something else, but I fathom that a good deal of gamers would want a little more if they had the funds to avoid it, even if it is a FX65xx or Haswell i3 + 87xx or higher.

Steamroller isn't going to be over 20-25% faster IPC-wise than Piledriver is currently because there is only so much they can further optimize to improve IPC, and there is little headroom for clockspeed increases.

And system RAM is inferior to GDDR5 or,if it is out at that time, GDDR6.

 

[psoomah]

Well at least you have the balls to come back to your thread after THAT

And through all this you remind me of the honey badger - YOU JUST DON'T CARE

It's fair to say my sensitivities being overly burdened by other's opinions of me has not been a notable problem in my life.