Once again, a brave cop goes home tonight

[FerrelGeek]

And if Brown and his buddy had obeyed Wilson when he told them to get off the street, then slipped into the nearest alley, he'd have quite possibly gotten away with shoplifting and roughing up the attendant. Simple rule to follow - don't act stupid around cops and your chances of dying will go down significantly.

Yes, there are jerk cops out there that get off on the power they have, but they are still the exception in spite of the perception.

:thumbsup:

The difference between your post and others is you're using your head and thinking it through without hysterics.

Based on the two articles I've read about this:

1) The person was right to call the cops
2) The cop was right to shoot the kid

When a cop asks you to raise your hands because he sees what may be a handgun and instead you reach for it, you get shot every time. Everybody knows this.

The articles so far point the blame 100% on the kid for acting like an idiot with something that looks like a real pistol.

 

[OverVolt]

:thumbsup:

The difference between your post and others is you're using your head and thinking it through without hysterics.

Based on the two articles I've read about this:

1) The person was right to call the cops
2) The cop was right to shoot the kid

When a cop asks you to raise your hands because he sees what may be a handgun and instead you reach for it, you get shot every time. Everybody knows this.

The articles so far point the blame 100% on the kid for acting like an idiot with something that looks like a real pistol.

Just to reiterate.... everytime!

It looks like a 1911 anyway so its not like even as far as fake guns go its a very convincing one.

 

[Jaskalas]

this really is getting out of hand, there's no defending that.

A person pulled a gun on them, and was fatally shot. That is EXACTLY what is supposed to happen.

Who it is makes no difference, officer / safety of others requires lethal force.

 

[positivedoppler]

A person pulled a gun on them, and was fatally shot. That is EXACTLY what is supposed to happen.

Who it is makes no difference, officer / safety of others requires lethal force.

The difference is the officer should have realized the person is an obvious kid and approach the scenario not acting like cowards afraid to die.

So if the person is 10 years old it's still ok?
6 years old?
4 years old?
2 years old?


At what point does common sense kick in for a police officer when he sees an obvious child playing with a gun? How good were you at following police directions when you were 12?

 

[FerrelGeek]

I was pretty good at following said directions, as my parents taught me to do so. I wasn't brought up with the 'the only good pig is a dead pig' mindset, where cop killers are heroes.

The difference is the officer should have realized the person is an obvious kid and approach the scenario not acting like cowards afraid to die.

So if the person is 10 years old it's still ok?
6 years old?
4 years old?
2 years old?


At what point does common sense kick in for a police officer when he sees an obvious child playing with a gun? How good were you at following police directions when you were 12?

 

[highland145]

I was pretty good at following said directions, as my parents taught me to do so. I wasn't brought up with the 'the only good pig is a dead pig' mindset, where cop killers are heroes.

Same. He told us to get in the back and we did. Rocks and windows in old buildings are too irresistible for 5th grade boys.:$

 

[xBiffx]

This "he was a kid" nonsense has got to stop. That is tantamount to the argument that guns kill people. Sorry, but a gun in the hands of a 12 year old is just as lethal as a gun in the hands of a 22, 32, 42, etc. year old. The reality is that people kill people. You really shouldn't need a reminder of that with a story like this either.

Stop acting like any of you would have responded any different if someone pulled out what you thought to be a real gun. If your response would be different because of the person, you are completely retarded. The gun has the same potential lethality regardless of who is holding it.

 

[Blanky]

The difference is the officer should have realized the person is an obvious kid and approach the scenario not acting like cowards afraid to die.

So if the person is 10 years old it's still ok?
6 years old?
4 years old?
2 years old?


At what point does common sense kick in for a police officer when he sees an obvious child playing with a gun? How good were you at following police directions when you were 12?

What if the person was 14 years old?
16 years old?
18 years old?

At what point does common sense kick in for a police officer when he sees a person drawing a gun?

As far as following directions is concerned, drawing what looks like a gun on a cop when you're told to raise your hands is about as bad as it gets and of course when I was 12 I was much better at following directions than that.

This assumes of course the story is happening as thus described.

 

[Jaskalas]

So if the person is 10 years old it's still ok?

It makes no difference. Anyone holding a gun is going to be shot by police. Especially in the acts of pulling or raising it on them.

People operate with the expectation of what comes next. When a gun is involved and being raised, there's only one expectation - it's going to be used. A bullet in one person or the other. Their duty and sense of self preservation requires it be the other person.

This happens time and again.

You move too fast, they shoot.
You turn around to see who is shouting at you, they shoot.
You swing a "gun" in Walmart, they shoot.

If the gun is real, as they must assume, and an officer lets himself get killed - who's to say the shooter stops there? They could go on to harm others. Doesn't matter if you want suicidal cops, they must protect others. Deadly force is required and there is no way around that.

Don't casually or playfully hold guns. Don't sell or permit toy guns. Guns are not toys. Guns are death, as demonstrated every time there's a news story. Perhaps one day we'll have robots that can confront suspects, but until that day we have humans who WILL shoot first.

 

[The Merg]

This "he was a kid" nonsense has got to stop. That is tantamount to the argument that guns kill people. Sorry, but a gun in the hands of a 12 year old is just as lethal as a gun in the hands of a 22, 32, 42, etc. year old. The reality is that people kill people. You really shouldn't need a reminder of that with a story like this either.

Stop acting like any of you would have responded any different if someone pulled out what you thought to be a real gun. If your response would be different because of the person, you are completely retarded. The gun has the same potential lethality regardless of who is holding it.

Exactly. Today is much different than yesteryear as well. Where years ago, if a kid was seen with a "gun", it was usually obviously a toy in how it looked or just for the fact that a kid having a gun was not a common thing, it was assumed to be a toy.

That doesn't happen now. Airsoft guns look exactly like the real thing (and are commonly used in robberies because of that). Also, kids nowadays seem to be getting their hands on the real thing more and more, either because of lack of securing them or due to the criminal element. Either way, when a cop sees a kid with a "gun", they have to treat it as such.

- Merg

 

[TuSpockShakur]

The real question should be, "Why are there so many Darwin Award candidates in the hood?"

 

[Texashiker]

Kid pulled a gun on a cop, cop shot kid, end of story.

Does not matter if gun was toy, cop thought gun was real.

 

[mizzou]

this really is getting out of hand, there's no defending that.

Take your tin-foil hat off for a second.

Actual rates of police shootings are not "getting out of hand".

Put your tin-foil hat back on. It's OK to be outraged over EVERY police shooting, but don't confuse the fact a news story covers an incident means it's increasing at an exponential rate.

The reason you hear about these stories so often, is because we are a gigantic country with millions of people. It's not hard to find a story about crime somewhere in the USA at any moment.

Now, if on a local level, you have these incidents occurring (I.E., you have 10x the murder rate vs. last year) then feel free to say "Murder rate is getting out of hand"

 

[rudder]

There is just no excuse for this. In the end the #1 job of the police is to make communities safer and serve the public. Shooting children in the playground is horrendous.

Furgeson will get attention this week, but this story deserves it so much more

Unfortunately the two will get lumped together. The 12 year old was doing something stupid... but when the cop confronted him he did not say anything or make any threatening gestures. The cop probably was having an adrenaline rush and had an itchy finger. Now we have this tragedy.

Ferguson was a totally different scenario but this last event will be used to somehow justify the mayhem that will likely follow the grand jury decision.

 

[Blanky]

Unfortunately the two will get lumped together. The 12 year old was doing something stupid... but when the cop confronted him he did not say anything or make any threatening gestures. The cop probably was having an adrenaline rush and had an itchy finger. Now we have this tragedy.

Ferguson was a totally different scenario but this last event will be used to somehow justify the mayhem that will likely follow the grand jury decision.

I bolded the part that's wrong. According to the narrative he drew what a reasonable person would assume is a gun. That's about as threatening as it gets.

 

[Texashiker]

but when the cop confronted him he did not say anything or make any threatening gestures.

What the hell?

Reaching for a gun in his waistband is not a threatening move?

What planet do you come from?

 

[The Merg]

Unfortunately the two will get lumped together. The 12 year old was doing something stupid... but when the cop confronted him he did not say anything or make any threatening gestures. The cop probably was having an adrenaline rush and had an itchy finger. Now we have this tragedy.



Ferguson was a totally different scenario but this last event will be used to somehow justify the mayhem that will likely follow the grand jury decision.

He did make a threatening gesture. When told to raise his hands, he pulled a gun out of his waistband.

Now, the shooting in New York in the apartment building I think falls more under what you said. In that case, the officers were checking a pitch black stairwell where there had been a previous shooting when the victim walked into the stairwell. Checking the stairwell, the officer had his gun out. I'm wondering if he failed to follow one of the cardinal rules of safety in keeping his finger off the trigger and was startled when the guy walked into the stairwell.

- Merg

 

[mizzou]

I just can't imagine why they approached this situation in a way that would have to go down like this. At least get a ballistic shield and start to approach him that way. Since it wasn't a real gun, there is ZERO chance it came out as an "Active shooter", because NO shots could have been fired.

Get everyone around him to GTFO and single him out if he is being a little ass and doesn't want to listen to you. Get a ballistic shield wall and approach if you don't have any cover at all.

If you have NO advantage whatsoever...just wait him out from cover until he comes to you.

If you approach someone with a gun, and you don't have the advantage, that exponentially increases the chance you will have to make a choice to discharge a weapon to protect life.


From having airsoft guns pulled on me before, you have no choice to believe they are real. It's a terrible feeling to have thinking "A bullet is going to come out of there, and it's going to split my head apart"

Take your time. Be Patient. No lives are being lost, so use that as an advantage to try and make sure EVERYONE goes home safe

 

[Blanky]

I just can't imagine why they approached this situation in a way that would have to go down like this. At least get a ballistic shield and start to approach him that way. Since it wasn't a real gun, there is ZERO chance it came out as an "Active shooter", because NO shots could have been fired.

Get everyone around him to GTFO and single him out if he is being a little ass and doesn't want to listen to you. Get a ballistic shield wall and approach if you don't have any cover at all.

If you have NO advantage whatsoever...just wait him out from cover until he comes to you.

If you approach someone with a gun, and you don't have the advantage, that exponentially increases the chance you will have to make a choice to discharge a weapon to protect life.


From having airsoft guns pulled on me before, you have no choice to believe they are real. It's a terrible feeling to have thinking "A bullet is going to come out of there, and it's going to split my head apart"

Take your time. Be Patient. No lives are being lost, so use that as an advantage to try and make sure EVERYONE goes home safe

I assume most cop cars don't have ballistic shields in the trunk and thus it wasn't an option.

I have little doubt that the cop could have handled this better, either kept distance or partially covered himself behind something, although I still ultimately put blame on the kid.

 

[WelshBloke]

... Don't casually or playfully hold guns. Don't sell or permit toy guns. Guns are not toys. Guns are death, as demonstrated every time there's a news story...

Wait are you suggesting that toy guns should be more tightly controlled than real ones?

 

[xBiffx]

Wait are you suggesting that toy guns should be more tightly controlled than real ones?

I think that he is suggesting that parents smarten up and not let their kids play around with toy guns that look like real ones. Pretty much been that way for years.

 

[WelshBloke]

I think that he is suggesting that parents smarten up and not let their kids play around with toy guns that look like real ones. Pretty much been that way for years.

You don't think there's something wrong when we have to tell kids "Don't play with toy guns, that policeman might shoot you."?

 

[DCal430]

You don't think there's something wrong when we have to tell kids "Don't play with toy guns, that policeman might shoot you."?

FYI many states such as California have outlawed toy guns I'm public because of stuff like this. So yes we are should tell kids this.

 

[mizzou]

I assume most cop cars don't have ballistic shields in the trunk and thus it wasn't an option.

I have little doubt that the cop could have handled this better, either kept distance or partially covered himself behind something, although I still ultimately put blame on the kid.

Cops sometimes get in the mentality that they have to solve the crime right then and there, so they get hemmed up in a situation where a little patience and prudence could help. I.E. you have a psycopath in the 2nd floor of a house and you got to get him for whatever reason...if no lives are in immediate danger, make sure you get a reasonable amount of resources together before making a decision to act.

Don't EVER give in to a criminal when they have the upper hand and you have the option to negate that. Obviously you don't call out a SWAT unit for every stupid thing, but when it comes to confronting a person KNOWN to be armed, that changes everything. Wait for that 2nd or 3rd officer. Wait for that supervisor to get on scene with a shield. Wait for the person who has the less lethal option.

 

[WelshBloke]

FYI many states such as California have outlawed toy guns I'm public because of stuff like this. So yes we are should tell kids this.

How do you outlaw kids playing with toy guns?

What if they get toy toy guns?