On what neuroscience tells us about liberal thinking....

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,823
6,780
126
One discovery is that conservatives are moral in many ways that liberals are not and do not understand. This leads to the situation that conservatives understand morality better than liberals do, and furthermore, that they understand liberals better than liberals understand them.

Because my intent is to address liberals , I will not try to prove this here because the liberal mind is supposed to be amenable to scientific reasoning and the research is out there. Anybody who has doubts about this can check out the work of Jonathan Haidt.

His work shows that Republicans win elections, not because they appeal to rubs who are easily manipulated, but because they appeal to moral convictions instinctively that liberals don't understand. People vote conservative because conservative moral values are human and natural.

And conservatives can reason, they just do so like a lawyer in defense of their values which can include the following: care, fairness, liberty, loyalty, authority and sanctity as well as divinity, community, hierarchy, tradition, sin and degradation.

As Haidt points out, "Liberals don’t understand conservative values. And they can’t recognize this failing, because they’re so convinced of their rationality, open-mindedness and enlightenment."

This the above, is what I call the liberal brain defect, the focus solely on the injustice and inequality that conservative moral values will tolerate to support their other moral ideals, that reason and rational argument can bring them to concede when their actual reaction is that liberals, unable to appreciate the moral valuse being defended, are evil.

I recently described the LBD vs the CBD as taking a hammer to your thumb.

Now what you get when you try to pursuade people to abandon some moral belief, say by making some form of moral action illegal, take abortion as one case, is the sense of persecution.

In another thread recently I suggested to a conservative, who was rationalizing in favor of his moral belief, that he would not be able to see the irrationality of his thinking unless he let go and died. Now I had already and have often in the past, used this idea of spiritual awakening as the product of ego death, but this person had his ego aroused and needed and therefore wanted to see my words literally, that he was of such importance or such a threat to me that I would wish him harm, and this after a rather extensive explanation that I had the best wishes for him.

Having slept of this event an image arose in my mind that we have a real world analogy of the CBD in action in primates, the fact that you can capture monkeys by putting food in a bottle, which when they take hold of it they can't remove their hand. No amount of reasoning in the world will convince that monkey to let go, to die to appetite sufficiently so he can live.

What liberals need to do, then, in my opinion, is to focus more on how to relax the conservative hand, because the assault of reason on the moral beliefs of conservatives by liberals just makes their grip tighten and their minds fabricate a greater level of threat.

If we are so smart, maybe we can turn our attention to that.

How can Sambo turn tigers into butter?
 
Last edited:

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
This the above, is what I call the liberal brain defect, the focus solely on the injustice and inequality that conservative moral values will tolerate to support their other moral ideals, that reason and rational argument can bring them to concede when their actual reaction is that liberals, unable to appreciate the moral valuse being defended, are evil.

Inequality can be the moral outcome of a fair system and a desireable thing of itself. Changing it to relieve those whose actions or behaviors resulted in the inequality can itself be an injustice. There's no point in having rules if after things are run you simply arbitrarily decide the result isn't fair after the fact and reallocate the prizes.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,950
10,294
136
What liberals need to do, then, in my opinion, is to focus more on how to relax the conservative hand, because the assault of reason on the moral beliefs of conservatives by liberals just makes their grip tighten and their minds fabricate a greater level of threat.

If we are so smart, maybe we can turn our attention to that.

How can Sambo turn tigers into butter?

I'd phrase it "How to boil a frog?"

This is a contest of wanting different things, and fighting to get them. What you are describing is merely a plot, though a positively peaceful one, to get what you want over what we want.

At least in this, your method allows for a civilized discussion. That's a good place to start, regardless of who wins.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
It may help if Liberals were more understanding of the Conservative's mental issues. Or it may not. I mean if you still believe in trickle down, I am not sure how much can be done for you.
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
37
91
See, this is what I was talking about in the other thread. It's a little more inventive since you're trying to even out with "LBD" even though you're not - but at least it's at least somewhat new. I still like when you emo rage post but this is at least better than what you've been posting recently...not much, but, at least a little...
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,976
141
106
liberal thinking and behavior is rooted in elementary school yard behavior and antics. Liberals are in a perpetual state of immaturity and complete lack of intellectual application. They are child like in their endless complaining / wants and wishes. And expect the elders to pay for / supply their every desire. And even though they are now adults they are still barely adolescent in their thinking and grasp on reality which is often characterized by their selective indignation and endless symbolism over substance and agenda based grievance mongering.
 

brandonb

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 2006
3,731
2
0
Diversity in thought is really what diversity is about. Face it, Liberals and Conservatives have different values, morals, and interests. There isn't a bad guy or a good guy here, just different guys. The difference here is people natural tendency to dislike what they don't know and don't associate with. It's human nature. "Birds of a feather flock together." Liberals do it. Conservatives do it. I see the demonization of the "other side" frequently on the internet. Mainly because it's anonymous. I realize it's just human nature at work. This thread is really no different.

The world needs more moderates, less extremists from all sides of life.
 

Newell Steamer

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2014
6,894
8
0
Liberals just don't get what the fuss is all about, frankly. And, that is the flaw of most liberal thinking; we don't get it.

Gun control being the main "it" I find pretty critical.

Gun control is damn near impossible,.. because no one controls the illegal sales of guns,.. so, what, everyone else is to be left unarmed and not allowed to own a gun? I think that is utter bullshit.

I do agree with conservatives who fight for gun rights - and, I support them. They are right, we should be armed, if we choose to be armed.

However, where and how these guns are used, I general disagree with conservatives. I don't think I should be allowed to walk around with a rifle. It's frankly pretty fucking stupid to do so. A handgun on my side is just dandy. Back in the days of yore, there were no hand guns,.. so it made perfect sense. However to day, there is no practical use/need for a rifle.

Just as I criticize the left's constants cries of illogical demands of gun control (again, they don't get it), I criticize the right's constant cries of illogical demands to carry assault rifles (they get it,.. but have gone over board with it).
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
424
126
Back in the days of yore, there were no hand guns,.. so it made perfect sense. However to day, there is no practical use/need for a rifle.
Wait.. what? I'm not understanding any part of the above. What point are you making? (The rest of it is -surprisingly- actually pretty good)

Just as I criticize the left's constants cries of illogical demands of gun control (again, they don't get it), I criticize the right's constant cries of illogical demands to carry assault rifles (they get it,.. but have gone over board with it).
I don't really think there's any great number of people demanding to carry around assault rifles. (And just applying the term 'assault' to rifle as a way to make it sound ohhh sooo scary is an old, overplayed tactic. )

On the contrary, most arguments I see are merely people not wanting political hack politicians to label every other gun that ohhh soo scary as an 'assault rifle' so they can ban them easier. I don't personally care who else owns a rifle- to me it's the silliest thing of all to make into a boogeyman- very few crimes are committed with rifles (not exactly the most subtle weapon for sneaky criminals who don't enjoy getting caught) and really, if people were walking around in any great numbers with rifles vs. concealed handguns, practically speaking it'd just be that much easier to spot who is armed and act accordingly.

No, I'm not saying people should walk around with rifles, just pointing out it's kind of a ridiculous thing to fear since the chances of it in any great number are near zil, and even if it were a regular thing it'd be less a threat in reality than a lot of secretly armed strangers.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,823
6,780
126
It may help if Liberals were more understanding of the Conservative's mental issues. Or it may not. I mean if you still believe in trickle down, I am not sure how much can be done for you.

Are you trying to say that people who work hard in our entrepreneurial capitalist system can't get ahead and hire other people to help them progress?

Are you saying it's unnatural instinct to want to enjoy and keep the fruits of ones own success?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,823
6,780
126
See, this is what I was talking about in the other thread. It's a little more inventive since you're trying to even out with "LBD" even though you're not - but at least it's at least somewhat new. I still like when you emo rage post but this is at least better than what you've been posting recently...not much, but, at least a little...

As I understand the neuroscience of liberal conservative brain differences, it should be me, as the more liberal of the two of us, who should have a better grip on emotional rage. The whole advantage that liberals have over conservatives, according to the science, is that they are able to suspend emotional interference with strategic thinking better than conservatives can, who are evolutionarily adapted to leap instantly out of the frying pan which as often as not can land them in the fire.

In our needs to defend our moral beliefs, we often demonize the other as being immoral, in my case, emotionally irrational, so as to bolster our defense. Early on when I wanted to clarify to conservatives their defensiveness against any criticism I resorted to many such attacks to demonstrate the truth of conservative reactiveness.

And all I had to do to flip out as you might say, was to do what any conservative would do, feel the moral outrage against the monsters who do not share my moral vision. Some of us liberals have no trouble mirroring conservative outrage. ;)
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
37,456
33,161
136
liberal thinking and behavior is rooted in elementary school yard behavior and antics. Liberals are in a perpetual state of immaturity and complete lack of intellectual application. They are child like in their endless complaining / wants and wishes. And expect the elders to pay for / supply their every desire. And even though they are now adults they are still barely adolescent in their thinking and grasp on reality which is often characterized by their selective indignation and endless symbolism over substance and agenda based grievance mongering.
Social Security is a conservative program then?
 

MagickMan

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2008
7,460
3
76
Shark Fin Soup

Ingredients:

400 grams shark fins
100 grams dried, ground shrimp
10 large dried Dongu mushrooms
50 grams dried bamboo shoots
1 slice ginger root
2 tablespoons bacon fat
1 teaspoon salt
2 tablespoons soy sauce
4 tablespoons Chinese white wine
3/4 litres chicken broth
Fish stock from red-boiled fins
1 teaspoon sesame oil
1 tablespoon corn starch

Instructions:

Clean the fins, place in lukewarm water.
Soak ground shrimp and dried mushrooms for thirty minutes in 1/4 litre of warm water. The water can then be discarded. The dried bamboo should also be soaked until soft, then cut into thin strips.
Thoroughly clean and scale the shark fins, place in a litre of water.
Simmer for one hour. Afterwards set the water aside.
Place fins in a fresh litre of water and bring to a boil.
Reduce heat and simmer, covered, for an hour and a half. Afterwards strain fins.
In a separate pot, add chicken broth and bring to a boil.
Add ginger and shrimp, simmering for thirty minutes.
Remove from heat and strain the broth, discarding the shrimp and ginger.
In a separate pot, heat the bacon fat, adding the bamboo shoots and mushrooms together with salt.
Saute for one minute, then add soy sauce, wine, broth, fish stock, and fins. Boil under low heat, stirring frequently, for twenty minutes.
Remove from heat and slowly stir in the corn starch, in small increments. Sprinkle sesame oil on the soup.
Serve in a large bowl. The shark fins should remain on the surface.
 

Knowing

Golden Member
Mar 18, 2014
1,522
13
46
I don't really think there's any great number of people demanding to carry around assault rifles. (And just applying the term 'assault' to rifle as a way to make it sound ohhh sooo scary is an old, overplayed tactic. )

Assault weapons, please. Assault rifle has a definition that doesn't depend on the ignorance of the speaker.
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
37
91
As I understand the neuroscience of liberal conservative brain differences, it should be me, as the more liberal of the two of us, who should have a better grip on emotional rage. The whole advantage that liberals have over conservatives, according to the science, is that they are able to suspend emotional interference with strategic thinking better than conservatives can, who are evolutionarily adapted to leap instantly out of the frying pan which as often as not can land them in the fire.

In our needs to defend our moral beliefs, we often demonize the other as being immoral, in my case, emotionally irrational, so as to bolster our defense. Early on when I wanted to clarify to conservatives their defensiveness against any criticism I resorted to many such attacks to demonstrate the truth of conservative reactiveness.

And all I had to do to flip out as you might say, was to do what any conservative would do, feel the moral outrage against the monsters who do not share my moral vision. Some of us liberals have no trouble mirroring conservative outrage. ;)

Look, use whatever excuse(s) you need, I'm just saying, I liked your posts a lot better last EOY as it was clear you were raging out. Everyone understands your posts are for attention, but at least when you are emo rage posting it's really entertaining. When you're doing the normal vanilla CBD posts it's just the same old same old. You do have other shallow minded posters picking up the CBD schtick, but their posts just aren't as entertaining as yours, not by a long shot. No one who is looking to be entertained wants to watch a re-re-run you know?
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Are you trying to say that people who work hard in our entrepreneurial capitalist system can't get ahead and hire other people to help them progress?

Are you saying it's unnatural instinct to want to enjoy and keep the fruits of ones own success?

I am saying is that trickle down policies pursued since 1980s have been an abject failure for the vast majority of Americans, with the fruits of whatever success it generated concentrated at the very top. Something being natural instinct of individual is not necessarily the optimal outcome for society as a whole. Natural life expectancy of humans if left to their own instincts is about half of what modern society affords us, for example.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Every time I see this thread title I'm envisioning a machine displaying brain waves, which spell out:

GimmieGimmieGimmieGimmieGimmieGimmieGimmieGimmieGimmie
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
22,370
6,506
136
Shark Fin Soup

Ingredients:

400 grams shark fins
100 grams dried, ground shrimp
10 large dried Dongu mushrooms
50 grams dried bamboo shoots
1 slice ginger root
2 tablespoons bacon fat
1 teaspoon salt
2 tablespoons soy sauce
4 tablespoons Chinese white wine
3/4 litres chicken broth
Fish stock from red-boiled fins
1 teaspoon sesame oil
1 tablespoon corn starch

Instructions:

Clean the fins, place in lukewarm water.
Soak ground shrimp and dried mushrooms for thirty minutes in 1/4 litre of warm water. The water can then be discarded. The dried bamboo should also be soaked until soft, then cut into thin strips.
Thoroughly clean and scale the shark fins, place in a litre of water.
Simmer for one hour. Afterwards set the water aside.
Place fins in a fresh litre of water and bring to a boil.
Reduce heat and simmer, covered, for an hour and a half. Afterwards strain fins.
In a separate pot, add chicken broth and bring to a boil.
Add ginger and shrimp, simmering for thirty minutes.
Remove from heat and strain the broth, discarding the shrimp and ginger.
In a separate pot, heat the bacon fat, adding the bamboo shoots and mushrooms together with salt.
Saute for one minute, then add soy sauce, wine, broth, fish stock, and fins. Boil under low heat, stirring frequently, for twenty minutes.
Remove from heat and slowly stir in the corn starch, in small increments. Sprinkle sesame oil on the soup.
Serve in a large bowl. The shark fins should remain on the surface.

That sounds horrible, but I don't like sea food.
I had a tasty burger yesterday that netted out at 1600 calories. I had a very light breakfast and skipped dinner so I could have it,
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
121
I am saying is that trickle down policies pursued since 1980s have been an abject failure for the vast majority of Americans, with the fruits of whatever success it generated concentrated at the very top. Something being natural instinct of individual is not necessarily the optimal outcome for society as a whole. Natural life expectancy of humans if left to their own instincts is about half of what modern society affords us, for example.
Wut?

income-per-capita1-14a.png
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
15,934
8,518
136
That sounds horrible, but I don't like sea food.
I had a tasty burger yesterday that netted out at 1600 calories. I had a very light breakfast and skipped dinner so I could have it,

Actually, MagickMan left out the very last item in his list of instructions which should clear up your apparent misconception of his recipe:

"And lastly, make sure the soup is lukewarm when you are ready to feed it to your cat." ;)

On topic, I kind'a think if logic and common sense were the only tools of the trade that our politicians were permitted to use when creating laws, we'd be a whole lot better off. And I guess this would be a really cool thing if applied to anyone who wanted to vote too.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,823
6,780
126
I am saying is that trickle down policies pursued since 1980s have been an abject failure for the vast majority of Americans, with the fruits of whatever success it generated concentrated at the very top. Something being natural instinct of individual is not necessarily the optimal outcome for society as a whole. Natural life expectancy of humans if left to their own instincts is about half of what modern society affords us, for example.

Exactly, but it is important to see, I think, that there is a moral concept behind the idea and that it has instinctive support for that reason from a lot of people. What you see is that there are issues of fairness and equality that are not fully met by that approach. What you can see is that there are issues that are as important to address as self interest, but conservatives shouldn't be ridiculed for being self interested, we all are, except that one can see that self interest is often best served by insuring that the moral needs of other people are met. I am saying that as long as the battle remains of the level of my morals are better than yours, like say LGBT above seems to believe, no mutual understanding can take place.
 

MagickMan

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2008
7,460
3
76
That sounds horrible, but I don't like sea food.
I had a tasty burger yesterday that netted out at 1600 calories. I had a very light breakfast and skipped dinner so I could have it,

No man, it's delicious. When we were recently in Taiwan I couldn't stop eating it.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,823
6,780
126
Actually, MagickMan left out the very last item in his list of instructions which should clear up your apparent misconception of his recipe:

"And lastly, make sure the soup is lukewarm when you are ready to feed it to your cat." ;)

On topic, I kind'a think if logic and common sense were the only tools of the trade that our politicians were permitted to use when creating laws, we'd be a whole lot better off. And I guess this would be a really cool thing if applied to anyone who wanted to vote too.

Anyone with common sense knows that common sense isn't common at all.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,823
6,780
126
Every time I see this thread title I'm envisioning a machine displaying brain waves, which spell out:

GimmieGimmieGimmieGimmieGimmieGimmieGimmieGimmieGimmie

That's funny. I didn't feel that way when I used to have to take my Mother, who volunteered for the Republican women's club and was their secretary for many years, for Cancer treatments thee times a month because we had fun together on that day. I think if you look you will find you don't respect the needs of people you think don't deserve help. I couldn't agree more. I'm guessing that maybe I just don't see people as being as worthless as you do. My Mother gave me a great gift. She had a CBD and she loved me. It builds confidence when you get top scores in the world's hardest test, I guess.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,823
6,780
126
Everyone understands your posts are for attention,

You understand, I hope, that you can't create the reality that everyone understands what you say they understand by making that declaration. You simply want to add credence to the notion you are insightful and on to something. It is a very common symptom of self loathing to envy the attention others get and to see it out of proportion. Furthermore by drawing attention to my purported need for attention you pay the very attention you say I crave. I would thank you for that, but if you never pay any attention to me again, it would, I think, be a gift. I sense behind your benign amusement a malignancy I can happily do without. Maybe you should ask yourself why it is so important to you claim over and over again that you find me entertaining. You seem to be obsessed about making that point. I not only get it. I know where you're coming from.