On the Tyranny of the Majority in posting on a Left-leaning forum:

[pmv]

"Woke" is the new dog whistle for racists and bigots.

What gets me is how they keep inventing new buzzwords to denote their enemies. Then they overuse those words till it makes your ears bleed. When they ran out of mileage with "Political Correctness" they came up with "Wokeness" as a new way to denounce the same thing (i.e. anything that conflicts with the interests of the Right).

Though partly I blame US liberals. Seems as if they are the ones who coin these terms, which the right then immediately grabs and runs with.

 

[pmv]

On the topic of 'social control' and 'cancel culture' I would mention that in the Real World I've been very careful recently about expressing my real views about the Monarchy. It's not "authoritarian leftists" who have been arresting people for staging peaceful anti-monarchy protests.

 

[pmv]

Here is a start:

Left-wing authoritarians share key psychological traits with far right, Emory study finds | Emory University | Atlanta GA

People with extreme political views that favor authoritarianism — whether they are on the far left or the far right — have surprisingly similar behaviors and psychological characteristics, finds a new study by Emory psychologists.

news.emory.edu

Two points from the link I find important:

1. “Our work should not be used as a political cudgel,” he stresses. “Instead it should be used as a piece of information to help us understand the pull of extremism and intolerance. Having clarity about the appeal of authoritarianism may be relevant to help better understand what’s going on in the political landscape today.”

2. Like any other personality trait, authoritarianism lies on a spectrum with only a few at the extreme top-end of the scale, Costello says.

So what? It's possible for leftists to be oppressive - but they need power first, and for the vast majority of the world now, power is in the hands of the right.

Also, you don't see any problems for the idea of 'free speech' in citing research funded by the same powerful and wealthy hard-right figures who have been funding right-wing 'research' all over the academy?

 

[pmv]

Here’s a fun point about this. Basically a right wing shitposter laughs at the indulgence of liberal spaces and says they are stupid for giving him so much space to be a shithead.

Saying Goodbye to Twitter

I had my second Twitter violation last Friday. The first one was in January, for a tweet in response to Curt Mills, a friend who writes for The American Conservative. He’s a big believer in generational warfare, which I’m not a fan of, so one time I sarcastically responded to him in kind. When...

richardhanania.substack.com

Didn't get through the whole thing (my eyes glazed over) but seemed to confirm my suspicion that Twitter 'moderation' is automated nonsense that doesn't work very well.

 

[Moonbeam]

Didn't see this thread till I purged my ignore list.

Original Post is far too unreadable a wall-of-text to bother with, but just the title is absurd. This is not a 'left-leaning' forum - it's centrist, even moderately right-wing. OP doesn't know what 'left' means.

Perhaps you had me on ignore and missed the following post too:

I find it strange how Republicans promote conspiracy-theories about their own side

Haven't seen this posted on here, might have missed it (though a search produced lots of past idiotic statements by the same guy). I find it quite odd that Trumpists construct consipracies about the Dubya administration and the Neo-cons. Two different factions of the crazy right, I guess...

forums.anandtech.com

At any rate your point was made by numerous others that this forum is not leftist. As someone who has made the same point often years and years back I feel for the conversational accuracy at what I am pointing to here it is accurate enough.

You may have also missed that the OP you complained of as being as unreadable wall of text was with some minor changes a quote from a seminal and profound work of genius by John Stewart Mill.

 

[pmv]

Perhaps you had me on ignore and missed the following post too:

I find it strange how Republicans promote conspiracy-theories about their own side

Haven't seen this posted on here, might have missed it (though a search produced lots of past idiotic statements by the same guy). I find it quite odd that Trumpists construct consipracies about the Dubya administration and the Neo-cons. Two different factions of the crazy right, I guess...

forums.anandtech.com

At any rate your point was made by numerous others that this forum is not leftist. As someone who has made the same point often years and years back I feel for the conversational accuracy at what I am pointing to here it is accurate enough.

You may have also missed that the OP you complained of as being as unreadable wall of text was with some minor changes a quote from a seminal and profound work of genius by John Stewart Mill.

The John Stewart Mill who was an enthusiastic supporter of the British Empire and its mission to 'civilise' my Indian ancestors? One of the founding figures of liberalism? Can't say I'm a fan.

(Also, you should be aware that what is readable on the printed page is very different on a computer screen - different conventions apply)

 

[Moonbeam]

So what? It's possible for leftists to be oppressive - but they need power first, and for the vast majority of the world now, power is in the hands of the right.

I was not addressing the world. I was talking to forum members on the left who attempt to exert oppressive control on P&N, another point i

Also, you don't see any problems for the idea of 'free speech' in citing research funded by the same powerful and wealthy hard-right figures who have been funding right-wing 'research' all over the academy?

I do see a problem with it. I found that link after a two second search when challenged to refine the idea of left wing extremism. The article claimed to be new thinking on authoritarianism being present on the left, a fact I believe everybody who isn’t deep in their cups was already fully aware.

I had in mind when I posted that the left is easily triggered to connect anything on the right as immediately to be rejected just as you do here. How about instead you challenge the science the link presented rather than imply that because it was funded by Hitler and propounded by Goebbels it is actually scientifically false.

 

[pmv]

I was not addressing the world. I was talking to forum members on the left who attempt to exert oppressive control on P&N, another point i



I do see a problem with it. I found that link after a two second search when challenged to refine the idea of left wing extremism. The article claimed to be new thinking on authoritarianism being present on the left, a fact I believe everybody who isn’t deep in their cups was already fully aware.

I had in mind when I posted that the left is easily triggered to connect anything on the right as immediately to be rejected just as you do here. How about instead you challenge the science the link presented rather than imply that because it was funded by Hitler and propounded by Goebbels it is actually scientifically false.

What 'science'? Did you also buy into that 'lockdowns don't work' fake Johns-Hopkins study also?

Tell you what, give me the resources that the likes of the Koch Brothers have, and I'll fund studies challenging every bit of 'science' they buy for their side. You are very easily manipulated by those with power and money.

 

[Moonbeam]

The John Stewart Mill who was an enthusiastic supporter of the British Empire and its mission to 'civilise' my Indian ancestors? One of the founding figures of liberalism? Can't say I'm a fan.

(Also, you should be aware that what is readable on the printed page is very different on a computer screen - different conventions apply)

I give a fuck about conventions nor do I have any fewer issues reading Mill on paper then I do on screen. The convention you mention is that so many people today have never learned to read and think. They are lazy and in need of being spoon-fed. Sorry.

 

[pmv]

I give a fuck about conventions nor do I have any fewer issues reading Mill on paper then I do on screen. The convention you mention is that so many people today have never learned to read and think. They are lazy and in need of being spoon-fed. Sorry.

You don't "give a fuck" about being readable or legible, and yet then expect everyone else to do the work required to accommodate your own laziness?
Quite a sense of entitlement you have there.

 

[Moonbeam]

You don't "give a fuck" about being readable or legible, and yet then expect everyone else to do the work required to accommodate your own laziness?
Quite a sense of entitlement you have there.

Please, you just told me how unreadable a literary genius is. Let’s just say that your estimation of other’s readability is questionable and that legibility is font assured. I don’t expect anybody to do anything. I think the extent to which @cytg111 says I am willing to go to avoid admitting I am wrong should immediately dismiss any silly notions that I am lazy. Ends of the earth man.

 

[Moonbeam]

On the topic of 'social control' and 'cancel culture' I would mention that in the Real World I've been very careful recently about expressing my real views about the Monarchy. It's not "authoritarian leftists" who have been arresting people for staging peaceful anti-monarchy protests.

Check out the Peterson link on the death of the queen posted earlier here. Kind of interesting, I thought.

 

[nakedfrog]

What gets me is how they keep inventing new buzzwords to denote their enemies. Then they overuse those words till it makes your ears bleed. When they ran out of mileage with "Political Correctness" they came up with "Wokeness" as a new way to denounce the same thing (i.e. anything that conflicts with the interests of the Right).

Though partly I blame US liberals. Seems as if they are the ones who coin these terms, which the right then immediately grabs and runs with.

So "woke" as a term originated amongst POC quite some time ago (at least as far back as 1938 in a Lead Belly song), and started rising to prominence in the last decade, and that's when the conservatives started mangling it.

 

[fskimospy]

What gets me is how they keep inventing new buzzwords to denote their enemies. Then they overuse those words till it makes your ears bleed. When they ran out of mileage with "Political Correctness" they came up with "Wokeness" as a new way to denounce the same thing (i.e. anything that conflicts with the interests of the Right).

Though partly I blame US liberals. Seems as if they are the ones who coin these terms, which the right then immediately grabs and runs with.

I think creeping pejoratives are interesting and liberals should understand they exist and stop caring what the right says. The right is generally contemptuous towards the left and looks for ways to demonize them. It doesn't matter what liberals call themselves, the right will latch on to that and start hating the new term. So why bother coming up with new terms?

It reminds me of how terms like idiot and moron were once medical terms to describe mental deficiencies. When everyone started calling each other that name they came up with 'mentally retarded' to fix the problem. What happened? Everyone started using that phrase instead.

 

[cytg111]

So "woke" as a term originated amongst POC quite some time ago (at least as far back as 1938 in a Lead Belly song), and started rising to prominence in the last decade, and that's when the conservatives started mangling it.

Indeed. Woke to me is what we were in the wake of #metoo, I had NO idea that shit was going on, the stories that has piled on since, holy f's.. But then cancel culture came along and brilliant conservative propagandists in concert stood up from their stools, in lock step raised their hands, pointed and chanted *woke* *woke* *woke* *woke*.
And mangled it was.
Just like we were beginning to deal with the onset of disinformation, post truth and all that, and we dubbed the concept #fakenews ... but then Donald Trump grabbed the mike and yelled *fake news* about the mainstream media until his fascist base resonated the echosphere with *fake news* ... and it changed definitions again.
Everytime "the tyrannical left" begins to formulate, hone in, on a concept of truth to center a debate, the fascist antagonists of the alt reicht swoops in and strangles it. Its fucking brilliant.

 

[cytg111]

I think creeping pejoratives are interesting and liberals should understand they exist and stop caring what the right says. The right is generally contemptuous towards the left and looks for ways to demonize them. It doesn't matter what liberals call themselves, the right will latch on to that and start hating the new term. So why bother coming up with new terms?

It reminds me of how terms like idiot and moron were once medical terms to describe mental deficiencies. When everyone started calling each other that name they came up with 'mentally retarded' to fix the problem. What happened? Everyone started using that phrase instead.

God damn, you posted this while I was typing out my own.. But yea, 100% this.

 

[Moonbeam]

So "woke" as a term originated amongst POC quite some time ago (at least as far back as 1938 in a Lead Belly song), and started rising to prominence in the last decade, and that's when the conservatives started mangling it.

The realization that humanity is asleep by people who have awakened has been known for thousands of years. It is at the heart of the Christian notion of forgiveness because in fact there is only that sleep for which nobody is to blame. It is why Christ on the cross prayed for mercy for those who were crucifying him because they had no idea what they were doing. Sleep is the state in which people point fingers of blame. Neither the left nor the right know what woke is but bleeding heart liberals have a chance at understanding. To be enlightened is to forgive, to awaken to empathy.

The modern perversion of woke on the left is just another form of identity politics, the rejection of the notion that the established entitled have any idea at all about anything. This amounts to little more than a consequence of the structurally disadvantaged in society, who are in fact unfairly discriminated agains and legitimately in need of structural change, internalizing that inferiority and reversing that discrimination by turning it toward the socially advantaged in a desire for revenge.

 

[Moonbeam]

I think creeping pejoratives are interesting and liberals should understand they exist and stop caring what the right says. The right is generally contemptuous towards the left and looks for ways to demonize them. It doesn't matter what liberals call themselves, the right will latch on to that and start hating the new term. So why bother coming up with new terms?

It reminds me of how terms like idiot and moron were once medical terms to describe mental deficiencies. When everyone started calling each other that name they came up with 'mentally retarded' to fix the problem. What happened? Everyone started using that phrase instead.

As I have mentioned we are sick because of put downs. Most of human creativity is devoted to finding ways to make other people hate themselves as pay back for the damage we deny was done. As authoritarianism goes hand and hand with Stockholm syndrome, the knee bending that we require of children so they can compete in a hateful world, you will see this need to put people down in proportion to the degree that conformist pressure was applied. The greater the self hate the the greater the need to put down other people. The greater the self hate the bigger the ego and the greater the hidden feelings of inferiority.

 

[nakedfrog]

Thanks for the reminder of why I wish you'd just add me to your ignore list

 

[Pohemi]

But just remember that for people who hate themselves criticism that should be taken constructively will instead be taken as a massive attack on the ego.

I have stated with great regularity, owing to the constant charges of my God level lack of humility to remind others that what I can see of truth in others if accurate, I can only see because I am aware of those faults in myself. I differ only in the need for denial. Everything I feared happened to me...
...But at the level of culture we find ourselves in, yes, everybody hates themselves...

...As I have mentioned we are sick because of put downs. Most of human creativity is devoted to finding ways to make other people hate themselves as pay back for the damage we deny was done.

What you believe you see as truth in EVERYONE else is only YOUR own truth, that you then paint the rest of humanity with. And you either can't look at yourself and realize it, or you simply aren't honest and wish to keep applying the same generic, broad brush to everything and everyone. I'm not saying you can't be right for ANYONE else, but how you insist on applying it to every other person is egotistical and lazy.

I've said this to you (or similar) numerous times, and none of it ever gets absorbed. I'll await it going PLONK again, and your, "I know you are but what am I?" response.

 

[pmv]

So "woke" as a term originated amongst POC quite some time ago (at least as far back as 1938 in a Lead Belly song), and started rising to prominence in the last decade, and that's when the conservatives started mangling it.

Interesting.

Almost up there with "gammon" being first employed as a term for a certain kind of (middle-aged, white) right-wing man, by Charles Dickens. Took well over a century for it to become a mainstream usage. Funny how these terms exist for a long time before suddenly blowing up and then becoming unbearably commonplace.

I'm still annoyed at how 'political correctness' displaced the traditional 'ideological soundness'.

 

[nakedfrog]

What you believe you see as truth in EVERYONE else is only YOUR own truth, that you then paint the rest of humanity with. And you either can't look at yourself and realize it, or you simply aren't honest and wish to keep applying the same generic, broad brush to everything and everyone. I'm not saying you can't be right for ANYONE else, but how you insist on applying it to every other person is egotistical and lazy.

I've said this to you (or similar) numerous times, and none of it ever gets absorbed. I'll await it going PLONK again, and your, "I know you are but what am I?" response.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[pmv]

It reminds me of how terms like idiot and moron were once medical terms to describe mental deficiencies. When everyone started calling each other that name they came up with 'mentally retarded' to fix the problem. What happened? Everyone started using that phrase instead.

Yeah, I heard a repeat of a very old BBC radio program not long ago, and it came with an introduction apologising for the fact it referred to a musician it featured as "retarded", explaining that back then that was considered a neutral term to use.
My main issue with the use of "woke" (and, previously, "political correctness") is not even the fact that it's used negatively, but just the sheer ubiquity of it. It gets irritating from sheer overuse.

 

[Moonbeam]

What you believe you see as truth in EVERYONE else is only YOUR own truth, that you then paint the rest of humanity with. And you either can't look at yourself and realize it, or you simply aren't honest and wish to keep applying the same generic, broad brush to everything and everyone. I'm not saying you can't be right for ANYONE else, but how you insist on applying it to every other person is egotistical and lazy.

I've said this to you (or similar) numerous times, and none of it ever gets absorbed. I'll await it going PLONK again, and your, "I know you are but what am I?" response.

What never gets absorbed is that what I can see in myself you are too convinced at an unconscious level is also true of you. As I said, we only differ in that you have so far in your life not been forced to face yourself. You are blissfully ignorant. You needn't be threaten by me. Wake up requires humility. You are way too sophisticated for that sort of shit, right?

 

[pmv]

As I said, we only differ in that you have so far in your life not been forced to face yourself.

Do you honestly not realise how egotistical that comment is?