On the subject of conservative gloating over the Trump win:

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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,136
30,085
146
Uhh... lets be real.

This is what the taxfoundation said about the Trump tax plan effect :

":According to the Tax Foundation’s Taxes and Growth Model, the Trump tax plan would increase the long-run size of the economy by 6.9 percent under the higher-rate assumption, or 8.2 percent under the lower-rate assumption (Table 2). The larger economy would result in 5.4 percent higher wages and a 20.1 percent larger capital stock under the higher-rate assumption, or 6.3 percent higher wages and a 23.9 percent larger capital stock under the lower-rate assumption. The plan would also result in 1.8 million more full-time equivalent jobs under the higher-rate assumption, or 2.2 million more under the lower-rate assumption."


Or, you could be rooting to have this, the Hillary plan :

"According to the Tax Foundation’s Taxes and Growth Model, Secretary Clinton’s tax plan would reduce the economy’s size by 2.6 percent in the long run (Table 2). The slightly smaller economy would lead to 2.1 percent lower wages, a 6.9 percent smaller capital stock, and 697,000 fewer full-time equivalent jobs. The smaller economy results from somewhat higher marginal tax rates on capital and labor income."


ah yes, because this always assumes that supply-side economics works and those mythical jobs are a given result of this fantasy.

Problem with that, is it is roundly proven, and we have been living in that proof, that this bullshit doesn't work.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,136
30,085
146
They have their prediction and you have to respect that. If it doesn't work, then in with a berniebro in 2020. If (or more like After) they both fail, it will be interesting to see what happens next.

That isn't a prediction though--it is the same model that has failed for decades. This falls under the classic definition of insanity.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,351
126
Tax cuts are always going to favor the rich because the rich pay a higher share of taxes than the middle class.
This can't possible be true. Suppose at a million dollar income you pay 10 dollars tax and at 30 thousand a year I pay a dollar. It can't be impossible that tax law can't be fixed such that you still pay 10 dollars and I pay 50 cents. How can't that be obvious to you. Are you a member of some religious tax order that blinds you to that fact? What other explanation can you offer?
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
They have their prediction and you have to respect that. If it doesn't work, then in with a berniebro in 2020. If (or more like After) they both fail, it will be interesting to see what happens next.

They ARE NOT predicting that the all the cuts would go to the rich, they would go to the rich. That IS the tax plan. More or less starting back up where Bush left off. Do everything possible to lower the tax rates on the top 99.99% even though their effective tax rate is now equal or less than the typical middle class person.

How functionally retarded does somebody have to be to believe trickle down economics benefits the middle class after 40 years of watching it in action?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,351
126
I know people gloat M, and I understand why, but I see no constructive purpose in doing so. While I hope that people will learn to engage in introspection I do not see that happening. I see fear and fear mongering, some of the former understandable, but remember that the Phoenix is a wonderful creature who cannot be reborn if there were no ashes to rise from.

I hope that is what happens, rebirth in a better incarnation.

There are so many things to say about this. In no particular order then:
A great number of the American people feel left out and stranded. They feel their lives have already crashed and burned, it seems to me. I believe their desire was to bring down those who have ignored their plight and make them experience that same tragic fate.

Thus we have real feelings of dissatisfaction and hate based on the one hand on real changes that have happened in American culture and society some of which are the results of change that is inevitable, some the result of change that was not planned for or properly ameliorated, some the result of real heedless indifference, and some the product of personal dissatisfaction with life based on self hate, some the product of cunning politicians and their minions who stoke bitter feelings to gain political advantage, and some the simple lack of human grace and humility in not recognizing that however bad life may be for Americans or how much we may imagine it has declined, it is still far far better than the lives of most of the people in the rest of the world.

In short, there are many reasons to wish for a burning down to ashes and many reasons why that wish is insane and lacking introspection who can say which is what? My urge was for a burning down of both parties but I decided that to vote for that was to try to grasp the ring, to decide for others that their impending misery was for the best. I believe that the phoenix thingi refers to a psychological transformation, an alchemy of the brain, an event that can be experienced only by the individual, not by groups of people. I believe that a real collapse of our system would in fact create real and permanent misery, that everything wants to roll down hill. I believe that wisdom is possible only for the individual, that only the individual can create the conditions for his or her own psychic death, that it is not the right of anyone to push someone else into it, that one can only point and say that if you die to yourself you will find a better place. People have to reach the place of willingness to go there of their own free will.

So then I see the vote for Trump as an unconscious wish to destroy oneself in a back handed and devious way, to destroy oneself by taking everyone else with you and I see that as evil incarnate, a burning down of the world that leaves the self unchanged.

There is more to say but enough for now.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,351
126
They ARE NOT predicting that the all the cuts would go to the rich, they would go to the rich. That IS the tax plan. More or less starting back up where Bush left off. Do everything possible to lower the tax rates on the top 99.99% even though their effective tax rate is now equal or less than the typical middle class person.

How functionally retarded does somebody have to be to believe trickle down economics benefits the middle class after 40 years of watching it in action?
I believe you are seeing a religious faith in action. With the help of a religion one can believe anything as you well know.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,351
126
No, you are still stupid for supporting Trump. It is just that stupid won. That is not something to be proud of.
We are never going to get past "they're stupid", are we. I just can't emphasize enough that this is the liberal brain defect in action and also the reason Trump won, or, well, fundamental to his win
 
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disappoint

Lifer
Dec 7, 2009
10,132
382
126
Could it be the result of an impending sense of disaster, an attempt to bluster away a foreboding that the Republican sweep of all branches of government has yanked the props of their altered reality from under their feet, that they will not be able to shift the blame as effectively as they have before onto liberals. Could all that gloating really be fear?

I mean, really, who can't see that voting Trump was a death wish. What better way in the world to express ones self loathing. And to gloat and preen and make oneself uge, how better to suffer one's fall, to punish oneself.

I wonder if all the humiliated liberals crying in their beers weren't actually handed a gift. We always create what we fear.

Not in my case. I think Trump was the better choice between the two because Clinton is incompetent to be Commander in Chief. I don't think voting Trump is a death wish. I don't support the president elect as a wish to "burn everything down" as some put it.

If Trump were to make as egregious a mistake as Hillary has, I would rebuke him as well.

I have a question for you. Has there been a recent republican president that you think was a good one?
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,221
4,452
136
We are never going to get past "they're stupid", are we. I just can't emphasize enough that this is the liberal brain defect in action and also the reason Trump won, or, well, fundamental to his win

No, we will never get past the fact that half the people on the planet are dumber than average. It is actually what average means.
This time the dumb half won. It happens. We work to keep them from destroying to much in their slow witted rampage, and then rebuild after. The entire history of the world is this cycle. Smart people build up civilization on complex and sophisticated ideas, then slow witted people get angry that things are to complex for them to understand and demand simple answers to complex problems and when they are told that is not possible they rage and tear civilization down, then when the dumb people realize their lives are worse for their tantrum they settle down and let the smart people build civilization back up again. We are just seeing the next phase in this cycle, the dumb people are demanding simple answers for very complex questions. Civilization will soon fall.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
They ARE NOT predicting that the all the cuts would go to the rich, they would go to the rich. That IS the tax plan. More or less starting back up where Bush left off. Do everything possible to lower the tax rates on the top 99.99% even though their effective tax rate is now equal or less than the typical middle class person.

How functionally retarded does somebody have to be to believe trickle down economics benefits the middle class after 40 years of watching it in action?
I never said the tax cuts would help the middle class MORE. It will still help the middle class though, obviously not as much.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
No, we will never get past the fact that half the people on the planet are dumber than average. It is actually what average means.
This time the dumb half won. It happens. We work to keep them from destroying to much in their slow witted rampage, and then rebuild after. The entire history of the world is this cycle. Smart people build up civilization on complex and sophisticated ideas, then slow witted people get angry that things are to complex for them to understand and demand simple answers to complex problems and when they are told that is not possible they rage and tear civilization down, then when the dumb people realize their lives are worse for their tantrum they settle down and let the smart people build civilization back up again. We are just seeing the next phase in this cycle, the dumb people are demanding simple answers for very complex questions. Civilization will soon fall.
Civilization will soon fall? lmao. Are you typing this drivel from a doomsday bunker?
 

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
91
No, we will never get past the fact that half the people on the planet are dumber than average. It is actually what average means.
This time the dumb half won. It happens. We work to keep them from destroying to much in their slow witted rampage, and then rebuild after. The entire history of the world is this cycle. Smart people build up civilization on complex and sophisticated ideas, then slow witted people get angry that things are to complex for them to understand and demand simple answers to complex problems and when they are told that is not possible they rage and tear civilization down, then when the dumb people realize their lives are worse for their tantrum they settle down and let the smart people build civilization back up again. We are just seeing the next phase in this cycle, the dumb people are demanding simple answers for very complex questions. Civilization will soon fall.
Does anybody find it ironic that Mr. Smart here doesn't know how to use "too" properly?
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,221
4,452
136
Civilization will soon fall? lmao. Are you typing this drivel from a doomsday bunker?

No. I'm just a keen student of history. This has happened dozens of times, there is no reason to think it won't follow the same course this time. Mankind seems incapable of learning from it's past.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,351
126
Not in my case. I think Trump was the better choice between the two because Clinton is incompetent to be Commander in Chief. I don't think voting Trump is a death wish. I don't support the president elect as a wish to "burn everything down" as some put it.

If Trump were to make as egregious a mistake as Hillary has, I would rebuke him as well.

I have a question for you. Has there been a recent republican president that you think was a good one?

What is your definition of good? Also, stating that you voted for Trump because Clinton is incompetent might set off alarm bells in some realities, sufficiently so, I might add, that any comment you make regarding your lack of intentions could be deemed highly suspect.
 

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
91
What is your definition of good? Also, stating that you voted for Trump because Clinton is incompetent might set off alarm bells in some realities, sufficiently so, I might add, that any comment you make regarding your lack of intentions could be deemed highly suspect.
Well, she is either incompetent or a blatant criminal.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,351
126
No, we will never get past the fact that half the people on the planet are dumber than average. It is actually what average means.
This time the dumb half won. It happens. We work to keep them from destroying to much in their slow witted rampage, and then rebuild after. The entire history of the world is this cycle. Smart people build up civilization on complex and sophisticated ideas, then slow witted people get angry that things are to complex for them to understand and demand simple answers to complex problems and when they are told that is not possible they rage and tear civilization down, then when the dumb people realize their lives are worse for their tantrum they settle down and let the smart people build civilization back up again. We are just seeing the next phase in this cycle, the dumb people are demanding simple answers for very complex questions. Civilization will soon fall.
What about this hasn't been true for the last million years?
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
No. I'm just a keen student of history. This has happened dozens of times, there is no reason to think it won't follow the same course this time. Mankind seems incapable of learning from it's past.
So what do you mean by "civilization will soon fall". America will become what? Mad Max? Idiocracy? WW3? Enlighten us since you study history.
 

JockoJohnson

Golden Member
May 20, 2009
1,417
60
91
No, we will never get past the fact that half the people on the planet are dumber than average. It is actually what average means.
This time the dumb half won. It happens. We work to keep them from destroying to much in their slow witted rampage, and then rebuild after. The entire history of the world is this cycle. Smart people build up civilization on complex and sophisticated ideas, then slow witted people get angry that things are to complex for them to understand and demand simple answers to complex problems and when they are told that is not possible they rage and tear civilization down, then when the dumb people realize their lives are worse for their tantrum they settle down and let the smart people build civilization back up again. We are just seeing the next phase in this cycle, the dumb people are demanding simple answers for very complex questions. Civilization will soon fall.

Ah, the meltdown and accusations of stupidity...what phase of denial is this again?

Another poster mentioned the definition of insanity a few posts back. The loony left is doing the exact same thing. Instead of looking inward to see WTF went wrong, it is much easier to just say it was stupidity on the other side. You will never learn. You and your ilk were doing this before the election and continue to do it after the election. Talk about stupid...or maybe insane -- doing something over and over again and expecting a different result.

So how does accusing everyone who didn't vote for your guy (gal in this case) of being stupid help the situation? Do you actually expect people to just wake up and say "Oh, he called me stupid. I don't want to be stupid. I want to be a lemming and fit in and coddled by the same retard that just called me stupid". Way to go!!
 

disappoint

Lifer
Dec 7, 2009
10,132
382
126
What is your definition of good? Also, stating that you voted for Trump because Clinton is incompetent might set off alarm bells in some realities, sufficiently so, I might add, that any comment you make regarding your lack of intentions could be deemed highly suspect.

My definition of good is competent to be POTUS. Has there been a Republican president you would vote for? That you think the nation benefited from their service to this nation as POTUS?

I didn't state who I voted for, I stated that I support the President Elect until I see reason not to. I also stated that I think he seems more competent than Hillary Clinton. The reason I felt she was incompetent was that she leaked the actual names of American intelligence personnel working covertly overseas in the Middle East which resulted in their deaths.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Hindsight gloating is 20/20?
lol No doubt.

wait, what? You think people were offended at the idea of a Republican president?

lol.
Yep. These forums were chock full of gleeful predictions of the end of the Republican Party, and every single Republican candidate has been denounced as a far right wacko. Even Kasich. You guys aren't ever going to be happy until we're a single party state the likes of Venezuela or Russia.

Don't forget the working class will get hit by higher interest rates and inflation to pay for the deficits that will pay for those tax cuts for the rich. But it's OK, because they voted for it.
Maybe they can get the same loophole Obama used when he doubled the national debt without materially higher interest rates.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
My definition of good is competent to be POTUS. Has there been a Republican president you would vote for? That you think the nation benefited from their service to this nation as POTUS?

I didn't state who I voted for, I stated that I support the President Elect until I see reason not to. I also stated that I think he seems more competent than Hillary Clinton. The reason I felt she was incompetent was that she leaked the actual names of American intelligence personnel working covertly overseas in the Middle East which resulted in their deaths.
yep, that was awful what happened to our intel. I specifically remember a guy on FB arguing with clinton supporters that those men dying were the reason he wasn't voting for her. You have to go off of action, not words. Yeah Trump said some naughty things but he wasn't getting people killed. Hillary actually physically, monetarily, and policy-wise harmed our country.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
There are so many things to say about this. In no particular order then:
A great number of the American people feel left out and stranded. They feel their lives have already crashed and burned, it seems to me. I believe their desire was to bring down those who have ignored their plight and make them experience that same tragic fate.

Thus we have real feelings of dissatisfaction and hate based on the one hand on real changes that have happened in American culture and society some of which are the results of change that is inevitable, some the result of change that was not planned for or properly ameliorated, some the result of real heedless indifference, and some the product of personal dissatisfaction with life based on self hate, some the product of cunning politicians and their minions who stoke bitter feelings to gain political advantage, and some the simple lack of human grace and humility in not recognizing that however bad life may be for Americans or how much we may imagine it has declined, it is still far far better than the lives of most of the people in the rest of the world.

In short, there are many reasons to wish for a burning down to ashes and many reasons why that wish is insane and lacking introspection who can say which is what? My urge was for a burning down of both parties but I decided that to vote for that was to try to grasp the ring, to decide for others that their impending misery was for the best. I believe that the phoenix thingi refers to a psychological transformation, an alchemy of the brain, an event that can be experienced only by the individual, not by groups of people. I believe that a real collapse of our system would in fact create real and permanent misery, that everything wants to roll down hill. I believe that wisdom is possible only for the individual, that only the individual can create the conditions for his or her own psychic death, that it is not the right of anyone to push someone else into it, that one can only point and say that if you die to yourself you will find a better place. People have to reach the place of willingness to go there of their own free will.

So then I see the vote for Trump as an unconscious wish to destroy oneself in a back handed and devious way, to destroy oneself by taking everyone else with you and I see that as evil incarnate, a burning down of the world that leaves the self unchanged.

There is more to say but enough for now.
Dude, that is just yet another long-winded attempt to justify your belief that you are superior in every way to those with whom you disagree. Trump voters are NOT suicidal. They do NOT want the country or the world to burn. They want a change from the conventional status quo offered by both parties.

I honestly cannot get why liberals insist that voting for a man with zero business experience, near-zero federal Senate experience, and 18 years of voting "present" in state government was some positive, life-affirming change whilst voting for Trump can only be a desire to burn the world. Don't forget that Obama's supposed big accomplishment in the Illinois Senate was getting passed a Republican bill expanding a previous Republican bill providing health care for poor children - in a Republican-dominated state government. That's the very definition of a non-entity. At least Trump can point to having increased daddy's money to the point of making himself a billionaire. That's not enough to make me vote for him because frankly I despise him, but at least it's something.

Civilization will soon fall? lmao. Are you typing this drivel from a doomsday bunker?
Isn't it amazing that the "smart half" are the people who cannot provide their own education, housing, birth control, even freakin' cell phone service without "someone else" paying while the "stupid people" are the ones who've been getting along just find without government funding every part of their life?
 
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soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
yep, that was awful what happened to our intel. I specifically remember a guy on FB arguing with clinton supporters that those men dying were the reason he wasn't voting for her. You have to go off of action, not words. Yeah Trump said some naughty things but he wasn't getting people killed. Hillary actually physically, monetarily, and policy-wise harmed our country.

He's got four years to change that.