On the question of whether left wing authoritarianism is a real thing:

[Moonbeam]

Recently scientists have taken an interest in the subject perhaps because of the emergence of the expression Trump Derangement Syndrome and have begun to question whether or not authoritarianism on the left is present of even possible. New research seems to indicate that it is real and present on some of the progressive left, not, by the way, the left I would call progressive:

The Experts Somehow Overlooked Authoritarians on the Left

Many psychologists wrongly assumed that coercive attitudes exist only among conservatives.

www.theatlantic.com

Is the myth of left-wing authoritarianism itself a myth?

Is left-wing authoritarianism (LWA) closer to a myth or a reality? Twelve studies test the empirical existence and theoretical relevance of LWA. Study 1 reveals that both conservative and liberal Americans identify a large number of left-wing authoritarians in their lives. In Study 2...

www.frontiersin.org

https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/2102/2102.11009.pdf

as some examples.

It seems that owing to the endless 'game of both sides' this information is still not well know or well received on the left and goes unrecognized. This means that the left can create what it fears.

I have another thread that caused me to post this where the left is challenged by Maher and Peterson where this lack of realization seems to be evident:

Interesting dialog between Bill Maher and Jordan Peterson in part on the difference between liberalism and wokeness not being the same thing.....

Pretty long for most here I suspect but the section i mentioned in the thread title I found pretty interesting. I have suggested we have an authoritarian problem on the left that liberals are ignoring including Trump derangement syndrome, race at the center of everything, fear driven climate...

forums.anandtech.com

Is left wing authoritarianism a real thing in your opinion and, if not, how do you square that with the science suggesting it is real.

 

[sandorski]

It CAN exist, but does it? If it does, not in any sense close to how RWA does.

 

[nickqt]

Recently scientists have taken an interest in the subject perhaps because of the emergence of the expression Trump Derangement Syndrome and have begun to question whether or not authoritarianism on the left is present of even possible. New research seems to indicate that it is real and present on some of the progressive left, not, by the way, the left I would call progressive:

The Experts Somehow Overlooked Authoritarians on the Left

Many psychologists wrongly assumed that coercive attitudes exist only among conservatives.

www.theatlantic.com

Is the myth of left-wing authoritarianism itself a myth?

Is left-wing authoritarianism (LWA) closer to a myth or a reality? Twelve studies test the empirical existence and theoretical relevance of LWA. Study 1 reveals that both conservative and liberal Americans identify a large number of left-wing authoritarians in their lives. In Study 2...

www.frontiersin.org

https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/2102/2102.11009.pdf

as some examples.

It seems that owing to the endless 'game of both sides' this information is still not well know or well received on the left and goes unrecognized. This means that the left can create what it fears.

I have another thread that caused me to post this where the left is challenged by Maher and Peterson where this lack of realization seems to be evident:

Interesting dialog between Bill Maher and Jordan Peterson in part on the difference between liberalism and wokeness not being the same thing.....

Pretty long for most here I suspect but the section i mentioned in the thread title I found pretty interesting. I have suggested we have an authoritarian problem on the left that liberals are ignoring including Trump derangement syndrome, race at the center of everything, fear driven climate...

forums.anandtech.com

Is left wing authoritarianism a real thing in your opinion and, if not, how do you square that with the science suggesting it is real.

Authoritarianism exists in any possible "political" flavor. No one who is capable of critical thinking can deny that.

I've linked to this free book hundreds of times, and on these very forums dozens of times.

If you want actual studies and real data on authoritarianism, read this god damn free book already. It's actually funny because the author is inherently funny, it's easy to read because the author is good at writing, and instead of some shit-for-brains horse-race political opinion-haver telling you shit they just made up, you can, read the fucking book.

Here is the link to: The Authoritarians by Bob Altemeyer. Read the fucking book already. Anyone reading this post (that means you, yes you).

TheAuthoritarians.pdf

drive.google.com

Here is a relevant short selection found on pages 9-11 or thereabouts on why worrying about "woke" left-wing authoritarianism is a absolute fucking waste of time if you're worried about, you know, ACTUAL FASCISM.

Right-Wing and Left-Wing Authoritarian Followers

Authoritarian followers usually support the established authorities in their
society, such as government officials and traditional religious leaders. Such people
have historically been the “proper” authorities in life, the time-honored, entitled,
customary leaders, and that means a lot to most authoritarians. Psychologically these
followers have personalities featuring:
1) a high degree of submission to the established, legitimate authorities in
their society;
2) high levels of aggression in the name of their authorities; and
3) a high level of conventionalism.

Because the submission occurs to traditional authority, I call these followers right-
wing authoritarians. I’m using the word “right” in one of its earliest meanings, for in
Old English “riht”(pronounced “writ”) as an adjective meant lawful, proper, correct,
doing what the authorities said. (And when someone did the lawful thing back then,
maybe the authorities said, with a John Wayne drawl, “You got that riht, pilgrim!”)


In North America people who submit to the established authorities to
extraordinary degrees often turn out to be political conservatives, so you can call
them “right-wingers” both in my new-fangled psychological sense and in the usual
political sense as well. But someone who lived in a country long ruled by Communists
and who ardently supported the Communist Party would also be one of my
psychological right-wing authoritarians even though we would also say he was a
political left-winger. So a right-wing authoritarian follower doesn’t necessarily have
conservative political views. Instead he’s someone who readily submits to the
established authorities in society, attacks others in their name, and is highly
conventional. It’s an aspect of his personality, not a description of his politics. Right-
wing authoritarianism is a personality trait, like being characteristically bashful or
happy or grumpy or dopey.


You could have left-wing authoritarian followers as well, who support a
revolutionary leader who wants to overthrow the establishment. I knew a few in the
1970s, Marxist university students who constantly spouted their chosen authorities,
Lenin or Trotsky or Chairman Mao. Happily they spent most of their time fighting
with each other, as lampooned in Monty Python’s Life of Brian where the People’s
Front of Judea devotes most of its energy to battling, not the Romans, but the Judean
People’s Front. But the left-wing authoritarians on my campus disappeared long ago.
Similarly in America “the Weathermen” blew away in the wind. I’m sure one can find
left-wing authoritarians here and there, but they hardly exist in sufficient numbers
now to threaten democracy in North America. However I have found bucketfuls of
right-wing authoritarians in nearly every sample I have drawn in Canada and the
United States for the past three decades. So when I speak of “authoritarian followers”
in this book I mean right-wing authoritarian followers, as identified by the RWA
scale.

Ultimately, there are left-wing people who are authoritarians, but fortunately, those bloggers have roughly 10-12 regular readers and are not threatening democratic republican government so that their "rightful authority figure" can take power and start killing their rivals.

 

[Moonbeam]

Authoritarianism exists in any possible "political" flavor. No one who is capable of critical thinking can deny that.

I've linked to this free book hundreds of times, and on these very forums dozens of times.

If you want actual studies and real data on authoritarianism, read this god damn free book already. It's actually funny because the author is inherently funny, it's easy to read because the author is good at writing, and instead of some shit-for-brains horse-race political opinion-haver telling you shit they just made up, you can, read the fucking book.

Here is the link to: The Authoritarians by Bob Altemeyer. Read the fucking book already. Anyone reading this post (that means you, yes you).

TheAuthoritarians.pdf

drive.google.com

Here is a relevant short selection found on pages 9-11 or thereabouts on why worrying about "woke" left-wing authoritarianism is a absolute fucking waste of time if you're worried about, you know, ACTUAL FASCISM.


Ultimately, there are left-wing people who are authoritarians, but fortunately, those bloggers have roughly 10-12 regular readers and are not threatening democratic republican government so that their "rightful authority figure" can take power and start killing their rivals.

That in the face of new research showing how the threat of left wing authoritarians is minimized in most of the literature. Please, I can walk and chew gum at the same time. Our government is under active threat from authoritarianism from the right. That is fucking obvious. Part of my concern as a liberal is that it's isn't the authoritarian left that leads the charge against it. We become what we fear and evidence suggests we are. I am not the only one who is trying to sound this alarm. We musn't allow MrSquish to become the gun nut he projects that I am as the right wing boogie-men establish bunkers under his bed.

 

[Moonbeam]

It CAN exist, but does it? If it does, not in any sense close to how RWA does.

Yes and no.

 

[Leeea]

On the question of whether left wing authoritarianism is a real thing:​

Yep.

It is a bit harder though. Many popular left wing causes make left wing authoritarianism quite difficult. Unfortunately those same causes enable right wing authoritarianism to rise.


But if one only pays lip service to those causes, the classic "the best slave is the one who thinks he is free", left wing authoritarianism is very achievable.



Some sort of balance needs to be achieved where people cannot just blatantly, knownly, and intentionally just lie. I think we may have taken freedom of speech a bit to far. Especially in the press. In saying this, I cease being a left wing and move toward some sort of center point.

 

[Pohemi]

Here is the link to: The Authoritarians by Bob Altemeyer. Read the fucking book already. Anyone reading this post (that means you, yes you).

He also co-wrote (w/ John W. Dean) another related book, but in regards to Donald, his administration, and even his followers/constituents. It's titled, 'Authoritarian Nightmare: Trump and His Followers'.

Both good reads in my subjective opinion, and as you said...not written as political hit-pieces but as studies on the definition of authoritarianism and how it applies to our country in it's current state.

 

[nickqt]

He also co-wrote (w/ John W. Dean) another related book, but in regards to Donald, his administration, and even his followers/constituents. It's titled, 'Authoritarian Nightmare: Trump and His Followers'.

Both good reads in my subjective opinion, and as you said...not written as political hit-pieces but as studies on the definition of authoritarianism and how it applies to our country in it's current state.

Required reading for anyone who remotely pretends to give a shit, in my opinion.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Left wing authoritarianism is clearly demonstrated when ANTIFA is out there goose-stepping and causing public mayhem.

If its not them, its the environmental whackos who want to take away everybodys gasoline cars and stuff people into EVs that are not viable at this time.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Left wing authoritarianism is clearly demonstrated when ANTIFA is out there goose-stepping and causing public mayhem.

If its not them, its the environmental whackos who want to take away everybodys gasoline cars and stuff people into EVs that are not viable at this time.

Cars were not viable in the era of the horse, until they were

 

[GodisanAtheist]

You will be free AND LIKE IT

-LWA

 

[Tsinni Dave]

Left wing authoritarianism is clearly demonstrated when ANTIFA is out there goose-stepping

Antifa has been out goose-stepping? If they just had matching outfits like red hats or those khaki and white shirt militia groups they'd probably get more attention. I hope it's towels. That's my vote. The soon to be feared Antifa ballistic fighting towel.

 

[HomerJS]

Antifa are not left wing they are anarchists.

Saying there are left wing authoritarians is like

Female rapists
Black racists

Possible but no where near the real problem

 

[Tsinni Dave]

Can anyone think of an actual example of a left wing authoritarian state, historical or otherwise so I could grasp what that looks like?

 

[cytg111]

Left wing authoritarianism is clearly demonstrated when ANTIFA is out there goose-stepping and causing public mayhem.

If its not them, its the environmental whackos who want to take away everybodys gasoline cars and stuff people into EVs that are not viable at this time.

Tf is this?

 

[cytg111]

Can anyone think of an actual example of a left wing authoritarian state, historical or otherwise so I could grasp what that looks like?

China before Xi turned NK and Russia when it was USSR I guess. All failed states turned regimes.

 

[cytg111]

Left wing authoritarianism is clearly demonstrated when ANTIFA is out there goose-stepping and causing public mayhem.

If its not them, its the environmental whackos who want to take away everybodys gasoline cars and stuff people into EVs that are not viable at this time.

That is so dumb though.

 

[Tsinni Dave]

Antifa are not left wing they are anarchists.

Saying there are left wing authoritarians is like

Female rapists
Black racists

Possible but no where near the real problem

I kinda figured anarchists are anarchists, and antifa to be be more like Woody Guthrie and Pete Seeger, and most of the folks who volunteered for the Allies in WWII. The common people standing for the common good. A bit of good socialism with a "Screw you, we matter too." bite. I think the concept of antifa has been painted as radical by fascists and deliberately sullied by agent provocateurs.

 

[cytg111]

Quote from first article that negates the validity of this thread

“One doesn’t need to believe that left-wing authoritarians are as numerous or as threatening as their right-wing counterparts to grasp that both phenomena are a problem. ”

Derp.

 

[Ken g6]

Left wing authoritarianism is clearly demonstrated when ANTIFA is out there goose-stepping and causing public mayhem.

If its not them, its the environmental whackos who want to take away everybodys gasoline cars and stuff people into EVs that are not viable at this time.

For the first you mean social justice protests? That's the exact opposite of authoritarianism. It's the powerless seeking protection, not the powerful seeking domination.

As for global warming, the ideal way to solve it would have been to convince everyone of the reality of the science 20-40 years ago, then have a reasoned debate about how to solve the problem. But some people refuse to believe scientists now, even as the problem is much worse. As a result, solutions that are as authoritarian as practical look reasonable. Especially since major backsliding after progress is made seems unlikely.

But "as authoritarian as practical", in this case, means pushing the boundaries of law while staying within the letter of the law, something Presidents of all political persuasions have been doing for centuries. It doesn't mean anything like staging a coup, rewriting the constitution for more power, or even ignoring the judicial system.

 

[Greenman]

Isn't all forced compliance authoritarian?

 

[cytg111]

Isn't all forced compliance authoritarian?

Minority rule is authoritarian.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Isn't all forced compliance authoritarian?

If you dont Obey they send in Antifa to come in and goosestep until you do.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Isn't all forced compliance authoritarian?

Probably, depending on your definition of authoritarian. It would be worth doing some imagination exercises to determine if civilization can function without a touch of forced (or at least coerced) compliance though.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

goosestep

Do you even know what that word means?