On the budget, Obama has Republicans cornered

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JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
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Yawn, that's in the long distant pass. Today it's GOP House's responsibility to fund the government. They asked for that responsibility, and they got it at the November elections. Now they will be held responsible.
GOP was trying to sit on both the tea-party and independent chair at the same time. Now Obama has put a wedge in between. They are going to have to pick one or their butt is going to hurt, big time.

They pick NO!!

ted-stevens-ted-stevens-no-demotivational-poster-1219290107.jpg
 

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
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Im getting a sense of Deja Vu all over again.. I remember seeing these exact same conversations going on when Newt pretended to be a tough guy...
 

Generator

Senior member
Mar 4, 2005
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The article is shit. We all forget rule number one of the Blame Game. When in doubt, its the black guy's fault.

Hold steadfast Republican shills, the country is dumber than you think. The seesaw politics will have you back in power in no time.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
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Huh? GOP needs to ask the Senate and President what is acceptable before sending a bill up. There is no time for Boehner's political games.

Kinda defeats the purpose of having a House of Congress if they have to ask what is acceptable before writing a bill. Easier to just have the Senate write the bill in the first place.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
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It's a bill that would jeopardize the economy with draconian cuts, and it has no chance of getting passed. They need to stop playing politics and pass the $30B in cuts they asked for and Democrats agreed to. It's all or nothing.

Draconian like not giving a heroin addict another shot of heroin. Who cares that it will cause far more harm in the future right?

And $30B isn't a cut in our current deficit spending, its a rounding error.

Personally, I say they should just pass the "fuck it" bill cutting everyones taxes to zero and making the debt ceiling unlimited. The tires are gonna come off this puppy anyway, lets at least party hard for a year or two.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
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Um, the democrats had super majorities in both houses of congress and the president, yet they failed to pass a budget, and you blame the republicans for this.

Now, the republicans have one house of congress. Dems still have the Senate and the President. Yet you still blame republicans for not passing a budget. Lulz. :p

Do you guys not comprehend the fact that Republicans demanded 30 billion in cuts, Obama and the Democrats agreed, and then Republicans ratcheted up their demand after negotiations?
 
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Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
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Draconian like not giving a heroin addict another shot of heroin. Who cares that it will cause far more harm in the future right?

Bad example to make your point, Now the real life and responsible way is by the time someone is a addict you have no choice but to give them dope or they can die and/or get very sick. You wean a addict off dope slowly so the body can naturally start producing the chemicals again that heroin replaced. You cannot go directly from one extreme to the other.
(it is not pretty)
 
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BladeVenom

Lifer
Jun 2, 2005
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Um, the democrats had super majorities in both houses of congress and the president, yet they failed to pass a budget, and you blame the republicans for this.

Now, the republicans have one house of congress. Dems still have the Senate and the President. Yet you still blame republicans for not passing a budget. Lulz. :p

The media always blames the Republicans. Doesn't matter who has what offices. The American liberal media is worse the Pravda was.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
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Bad example to make your point, Now the real life and responsible way is by the time someone is a addict you have no choice but to give them dope or they can die and/or get very sick. You wean a addict off dope slowly so the body can naturally start producing the chemicals again that heroin replaced. You cannot go directly from one extreme to the other.
(it is not pretty)

So we are already junkies and regardless of how well we are doing will still be so addicted to deficit spending that a very long and slow ween is the only way we can get off of it?
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
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So we are already junkies and regardless of how well we are doing will still be so addicted to deficit spending that a very long and slow ween is the only way we can get off of it?

Long and slow is relative to what you are withdrawing from. But yes, this is the logical way to "break a habit" if you will in reality .
 
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Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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What Obama will accept and the House proposes may not be what the Senate will accept.

Obama has actually now backed the Senate into a corner; if they do not accept the House version, they would be considered to be at fault for gridlocking the government.

There's 3 parties to a budget agreement. One is responsible for originating it, the house. Two of the parties are in agreement, Prez and Senate.

It's obviously the House that won't submit a budget all 3 can agree to. 1 out of 3 can't force the other 2 to agree.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
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Long and slow is relative to what you are withdrawing from. But yes, this is the logical way to "break a habit" if you will in reality .

Deficit spending is what I am talking about and you are sort of correct. Deficit spending has become such a large percentage of GDP that withdrawing it, regardless of how well the economy is doing, will cause GDP to contract.

The problem is that in this case the withdrawal symptoms become even worse the longer you do it and that includes the weening period. We are currently in the happy and high stage as our habit is relatively cheap. If the economy does indeed recover then the money we borrowed for yesterdays high immediately becomes much more expensive to service which either wipes out the reduction (or weening) or forces us to stop weening.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
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There's 3 parties to a budget agreement. One is responsible for originating it, the house. Two of the parties are in agreement, Prez and Senate.

It's obviously the House that won't submit a budget all 3 can agree to. 1 out of 3 can't force the other 2 to agree.

2 out of 3 can't force the other 1 to agree either.
 

matt0611

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2010
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Putting blame aside, who do you guys think WILL eventually give in when the government shuts down if you had to put money on it?

I'd bet that republicans give in first.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
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2 out of 3 can't force the other 1 to agree either.

That's why they have to compromise. Democrats have, GOP hasn't. Tea party won't let them. So they keep moving the goal posts to avoid compromise. Independents will have none of that.
 

matt0611

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2010
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Though I don't think a shut down would be the worse thing in the world, it really isn't worth 30 billion in cuts.

I would suggest the republicans take the 30 billion and at the same time suggest to the democrats to offer more cuts to avert a shutdown.

If the shutdown was over something more meaningful I would support it but it really isn't worth 1% of the budget. Just make a deal already, someone, for gods sake. Lets just end this charade.
 

etrigan420

Golden Member
Oct 30, 2007
1,723
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Putting blame aside, who do you guys think WILL eventually give in when the government shuts down if you had to put money on it?

I'd bet that republicans give in first.

No way. Obama will...not sure if Reid will though. I think he may have had enough.

What I *really* wonder about is how in-line "Tea Party thinking" is to "Republican thinking". I think the Tea Party has Boehner by the short hairs.

"We the People" need to take the Republican party back!!!1 wait...
 

Krakn3Dfx

Platinum Member
Sep 29, 2000
2,969
1
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Putting blame aside, who do you guys think WILL eventually give in when the government shuts down if you had to put money on it?

I'd bet that republicans give in first.

At this point, they both seem stupidly arrogant enough to let this thing drag out for the duration. As someone with a wife who works in a government position, I hope I'm wrong.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
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Republicans are screwed for 2012 if there's a shutdown. That is all.

Nope. Don't think so at all. If no other reason than the election is sooo far away. The economy, jobs and employment, and possibly Libya given I'm seeing reports we may send in ground troops, are all far more likely to be important issues in 2012. Plus the fact I don't think the average American really gives a damn about a gov shutdown.

Fern
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
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-snip-
It's not as clear though that Republicans will necessarily suffer from a government shut-down as they did under Clinton. First, although the Democrats still own the mainstream media, FoxNews is much more widely watched, there are many more alternative media, and NPR and CNN are openly trying to be less partisan. Second, the public is much more concerned about government spending than in the 90s. Third, this is not about one party holding Congress and another the White House; in this case both parties are responsible for crafting a budget the President will sign. And fourth, in order to win political points from a government shut-down, Democrats have to make people forget that this budget is one the completely Democrat-controlled Congress failed to pass when they were Constitutionally required to pass it. It seems to me that it's going to be quite difficult to make political hay over the fact that your opponents have failed to fix your own failure.

Yep.

Fern
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Not going to happen without a lot of growth in revenue. Think the most practical approach is to make some cuts, say 5%, each year and then see how the revenue does as the economy recovers.

Agree.

We can't 'cut' our way out of this. We need to increase GDP and revenues too.

Fern