On public figures, sex scandals, and what we should or shouldn't think about them

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Mursilis

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Mar 11, 2001
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This post was triggered by the Weiner scandal, but I don't want it to be about that. As I've been reading various reactions from all sorts of people, I'm wondering to myself if maybe we shouldn't be adopting the European model more (at least as I understand it on this side of the Atlantic) - cheating is purely a private matter, even if it involves a public figure, and we in America should stop making such a big deal about it.

And while I've considered that viewpoint, I still always come back to the same thought I've always had about a public figure who cheats - if you can lie to your spouse, who you claim to love, you can lie to me, a voter but also a total stranger. And if you can lie to me, then how am I supposed to trust you? And if I can't trust you, I can't vote for you, because how do I even know what or who I'm voting for.

[The obvious exception here is the open marriage - if spouses haven't promised each other monogamy, then "cheating" isn't cheating, and I'll accept it as a private matter. Of course, I can't remember that such a situation has ever happened in US politics, but I suppose it's possible. ]

Thoughts? And please, let's keep this nonpartisan - both D's and R's have been busted cheating, and it's not exclusive to one party.
 

momeNt

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Jan 26, 2011
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I think that cheating is not indicative of a politician's honesty with their constituents. The reasons for their lying and dishonest actions are just so completely different that they are separate calculi.
 

DaveSimmons

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Aug 12, 2001
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I agree that if they cheat on a spouse then it does speak to their character, but not necessarily their character on the job. Monogamy is not the natural state for humans, and there are many people with personal flaws that do not affect their job performance. Many actors, musicians, artists and writers are awful people in real life but still do excellent work.

One point I consider is whether the person has attempted to legislate private morality -- if they claim to promote "family values" by enacting laws while taking a wide stance in public bathrooms then they are attempting to hold citizens to a standard that they don't follow themselves.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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I think it varies by the person. But one thing studies find - men who have more power are far more likely to have affairs/promiscuity.

There are cases where it's especially sleazy - David Vitter, who has not been forced out of the Senate for ordering hookers from the floor of the Senate - and cases where it's at least somewhat 'relationship' based like John Edwards or Mark Sanford. Not many of us would take nuclear war in the Missile Crisis as a better option as the price to pay for removing President Kennedy for his affairs.

A lot of this has to do with things simply like 'getting caught' or not - Elliot Spitzer may have been targetted for political reasons under pressure from the Wall Street firms, and the law is not supposed to be used as a weapon for destoying political opponents by applying it selectively - and the politics of the situation if the politician's voters are willing to ignore the issue (again David Vitter or Mark Sanford).

There are varying degrees of perveived 'charatcer issues' that might affect their role as leaders, varying degrees of betrayal and so on.

Anthony Weiner's conduct is practically harmless compared to others - no sex, consensual communication - but he's in a lot of hot water because at the same time he resigned and did media as a new person having learned lessons, after that he was still doing it. That's a sense of someone lying to his voters who can't be trusted.

There are inconsistencies and unfair situations on these things. One politician might be hurt worse simply because the opposition has a big budget for attack ads.

Voters can be inconsistent for reasons like that - they oppose a politician who is heavily attacked for cheating, and vote for one with a politive media message of redemption.

At some point, voters would do better to give some thought to how to react to these issues. I do think policy tends to weigh more - electing a faithful husband who will starve people in order to buy unneeded weapon systems isn't really a good pick over a politican who helps the people but has an affair.

That's one other variable - the alternative. If the alternative to the cheater is another good politician, or a terrible one, is one factor in the response.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
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I think that cheating is not indicative of a politician's honesty with their constituents. The reasons for their lying and dishonest actions are just so completely different that they are separate calculi.

I tend to think so as well. In human psychology, sexuality seems to be compartmentalized from other aspects of one's behavior.

That said, there are some cases of cheating where it would affect my vote. With Weiner, he has shown recklessness and a general lack of self-control in repeating the behavior after being caught. He even seems to have told at least one woman he was sexting with who he really was, defeating the entire purpose of using a pseudonym. This kind of poor judgment goes a little beyond mere sexual impropriety.
 

justoh

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Jun 11, 2013
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A lot of the conduct seems irrelevant to their roles, and the subsequent lies sometimes even seem justifiable because of this irrelevancy. Maybe that Spitzer guy only lied because people are so unsympathetic towards those who frequent prostitutes, for example.

The only actual concern i've heard that seems legit is maybe there's a risk of them misusing power/money to fulfill some demand in order to avoid being exposed as being involved in some bizarre cocaine/prostitute scenario or something, but if people were a little more tolerant of sex, drugs, alcohol, and craziness, then there couldn't be any blackmail.

The lies don't necessarily tell us anything about whether or not they can trusted generally or particularly as long as it's questionable as to whether or not they should have been asked in the first place, and when there's only one answer most people are likely to accept.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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I think there are different combinations.

Those who are faithful but will lie about policy (George W. Bush).
Those who are faithful and are generally honest about policy (Jimmy Carter).
Those who are not faithful but have high standards on policy issues (JFK).
And those who are not faithful and also deceitful/corrupt on policy issues (Gingrich).
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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In life I've found that those who betray the trust of those they pledged to honor are not above doing the same to others.

Would I say that such a person be removed from office? No, but I would not choose such a one to have power over others.
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
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I agree that if they cheat on a spouse then it does speak to their character, but not necessarily their character on the job. Monogamy is not the natural state for humans, and there are many people with personal flaws that do not affect their job performance. Many actors, musicians, artists and writers are awful people in real life but still do excellent work.

True, and Craig's example of JFK is a good one. In the real world, where the choice too often usually comes down to only two candidates, the cheater might still be the better candidate, but I would nevertheless find the lack of integrity (at least marital integrity) to be disturbing.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
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I can't imagine why honesty would be a factor when choosing a candidate unless they are a complete unknown. I would never choose a candidate based on campaign promises as most of the time they don't even make sense. Voting record is the only factor I consider when researching how to vote. Candidates can't hide from their voting record.

With that said, what a candidate does in the bedroom has zero bearing on my willingness to vote for him. He could have 10 children with 10 different mothers and I wouldn't care. All that matters is if he votes the way I want him to vote.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
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I can't imagine why honesty would be a factor when choosing a candidate unless they are a complete unknown. I would never choose a candidate based on campaign promises as most of the time they don't even make sense. Voting record is the only factor I consider when researching how to vote. Candidates can't hide from their voting record.

With that said, what a candidate does in the bedroom has zero bearing on my willingness to vote for him. He could have 10 children with 10 different mothers and I wouldn't care. All that matters is if he votes the way I want him to vote.

The problem is voters don't vote on issue. They vote on which candidate they like the most.

And since pretty much every person hates a cheater, cheating is a "huge" scandal. While the most intelligent voters don't care about that, the vast majority do.
 

sixone

Lifer
May 3, 2004
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Character is and should be one of the most important thing a candidate can have.

But they also need self-control. No one with an ounce of common sense thinks that philandering will be good for their political career - so if they do it anyway, one has to ask why.

Is there some problem at home that isn't being addressed in a healthy way? Is the person someone who has an unhealthy craving for adoration from members of the opposite sex?

If their judgment is so skewed that they are pursuing this course of action, heedless of the consequences, then how much heed can we expect them to pay to the consequences of their actions in the role of public servant? Are they voting based on what's likely to get them re-elected, or what's best for the people they serve?
 

Vaux

Senior member
May 24, 2013
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The OP poses a really good question. My guess is it depends on the person. Sometimes people make bad decisions and it is reflective of their character, and sometimes it isn't.

But it's pretty much a staple of the human man to have a tendency to make questionable decisions when it comes to women.
 
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