On Patriotism and love of one's country.

[notfred]

I posted this on a different forum in the midst of a flame war, and the thread was locked shortly after. Since I spent so much time writing it, I thought I'd post it somewhere where people had a chance to respond.

On patriotism and the love of one's country:

patriotic
adj : inspired by love for your country

coun·try
n : The land of a person's birth or citizenship

We all live in the United states of America. 50 states over more than 3000 miles. I'm a citizen of this country, and more specifically of the state of California. I love my homeland. I'd never want to live anywhere else but the state of California, despite it's problems and smog laws.
Love of one's country does not imply love of one's government. The Russian people under the rule of Stalin still loved "Mother Russia" despite thier horrible ruler. They loved the country for the same reason we do. We've grown up here, our familes and friends are here. Our history is all around us in our towns and cities. The Liberty Bell, The Constitution, the Golden gate Bridge, and until recently, the World Trade Center.
It is entirely possible to love your country, and not agree with the decisions of it's leaders. I'll draw your attention to the year 1776. 13 colonies along the eastern edge of this continent decided that enough was enough, and they were no longer going to live under the rule of a government that they feel was not serving the people as it should. They didn't leave, because they loved thier homeland. They stayed and fought, and recreated the government in a way that suited them. And I don't think anyone here would say that was an unpatriotic act.

When "patriotism" becomes represented by blind alliegience to anything with a flag printed on it and the official seal of the president of the united states of America, it becomes dangerously easy for you to end up as a British soldier rather than one of Washington's troops fighting for freedom. They were all loyal to the flag, which at the time was NOT the stars and stripes, if you'll remember.

If anyone beleives that they earned some special higher ground after "serving thier country" simply by being enlisted in the military, I believe they may want to think abotut hat statement a little longer. What is this country built on? Is it built on military power, or is it built on freedom of opinion, free commerce, and rule by the people? What's made this country great is NOT the military. Nazi germany had a great militray, So did the USSR. Every country has a military.

What makes this country great are people like Thomas Jefferson, Martin Luther King Jr., Abraham Lincoln. People that stood up against the status quo, spoke thier minds and instigated change.

It takes a lot more bravery to be the Kid standing in front of the tank in tienaman square than it does to be the soldier ordered to drive a tank over a bunch of protesters.

-notfred

 

[JellyBaby]

It is entirely possible to love your country, and not agree with the decisions of it's leaders.

I may take fire for quoting Trafficant but he "loves America but hates the government." Some good points. Frenzied patriotism leads to nationalism which I've always felt goes over the line.

 

[Calundronius]

Originally posted by: JellyBaby

It is entirely possible to love your country, and not agree with the decisions of it's leaders.

I may take fire for quoting Trafficant but he "loves America but hates the government." Some good points. Frenzied patriotism leads to nationalism which I've always felt goes over the line.

Love for your country is a good thing, and can be a great thing. Nationalism is when you cross that line, and decide you deserve everything you want, simply because you had the luck to be born wherever you happen to live.

I love the US, and I love the freedoms and prosperity we enjoy. But I would not say that I am proud to be an American, because I haven't earned my nationality...my mom gave birth to me here, I didn't do anything to become a US citizen. Don't misunderstand me, I am quite thankful I live in the US. But I don't think we are inherently any better than anyone else, nor do we deserve some sort of special treatment. I do, however, think we have better liberties, freedom, and prosperity than most (if not all) other countries, but I don't think that those other countries deserve it less.

 

[linuxboy]

notfred, you have ventured upon the mass topic that the pre-1940s intellectuals encountered. What would shape the world? Was it the turmoils of capitalism and freedom, the stability of communism, the power of socialism or the unity of fascism?

And the thinkers of that time all came to their own conclusions, based on biases or a geuine search for truth. Love and devotion for an idea larger than oneself comes with the potential to forego rational decisions in order to preserve the greater unity of the whole. Yet that unity in most cases is also illusory as that is comprised of our weaknesses, delusions and wishes.

Nationalism and the foregoing of reason is a great danger. The freedom of speech, to disagree with and discuss an idea or chosen course of action is one of the aspects of our overall inherent freedom that have made the USA a merging, chaning entity dedicated to continue the ideas of democracy. And love for democracy is patriotism, which includes telling people that the incumbent decision is somehow unfavorable or favorable to the survival of ourselves and loves ones as well as the pursuit of liberty and happiness.

People do not make a country great any more than ideas do. It is the efforts of insane individuals (not people) with a dream, fools to the world who dare not let anything stand in their path who create change, knowing the odds of failure and the apparent impossibility of their vision.

Cheers !