Ominous: The US deficit vs the dollar

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
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Ominous: The US deficit vs the dollar
By Jack Crooks
[/b]Asia Times

"Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them." - George Orwell

The US deficit is good, because it stimulates US demand and Asian exports. The deficit is bad because it has created a massive global financial imbalance that will one day need to be balanced. I think that qualifies as doublethink.

I am guilty of doublethink more often than I care to admit. But as I examine the financial "realities" and the implications of the US current-account deficit, the word "ominous" is the only thought that seeps into my mind. And though the timing is anyone's guess, the US dollar is poised to be overwhelmed by the deficit.

Peter G Peterson, chairman of the Council on Foreign Relations, the Institute of International Economics, and the Blackstone Group, had this to say in the September/October edition of Foreign Affairs magazine:

The United States is now borrowing about $540 billion per year from the rest of the world to pay for the overall deficit funding Americans' consumption of goods and services and US foreign transfers. This unprecedented current-account deficit is paid through direct lending and the net sales of US assets to foreign business or persons: everything from stocks and bonds to corporations and real estate. The United States imports roughly $4 billion of foreign capital each day, half of that to cover the current-account deficit and the other half to finance investments abroad. At 5.4% of GDP [gross domestic product] in the first quarter of 2004, the deficit is substantially higher than its previous record (3.5% of GDP) in 1987, when the dollar fell by a third and the stock market took its "Black Monday" plunge.

I think Peterson does an excellent job of explaining the deficit problem and its relationship to the dollar. The deficit truly is the common thread binding dollar bears. Here's a look at what they are seeing:

CHART

The chart above shows the deficit rose to a whopping US$166.2 billion for the second quarter of 2004. Annualized, that's $664.8 billion, or approaching 6.5% of US gross domestic product. As bad as this seems, it will probably get worse before it gets better.

We are locked into a set of "daunting arithmetic", says Richard Berner, an economist with Morgan Stanley. He says, "The daunting arithmetic locks the current-account gap into a vicious circle that is hard to escape." Berner cites several reasons he thinks the deficit will get worse:

1) Imports of goods, services and income are 40% bigger than exports. And this ratio is on the rise again.
2) Higher US interest rates will increase debt payments to foreign debt holders.
3) Iraq war and redevelopment.
4) Slowdown in global growth, especially in Asia.
5) Soaring cost of imported oil.

Economics 101 teaches that if a country's currency depreciates, that depreciation will allow for an increase in exports, the theory being that the cost of its goods become cheaper, or more competitive, in international markets. But as one would expect, there is a lag time between the time a currency depreciates and its benefits begin to accrue in terms of trade. This means the deficit will first get worse then better as the currency declines in value. Economists refer to this as the J-curve.

Import prices rise immediately as a currency depreciates, but because the volume of trade is not as sensitive to price changes, it can take from one to two years for a positive impact to show up in the terms of trade and improving the current account.

Take a look at the chart above, which compares the US current account deficit to the trade-weighted US dollar from 1972 through the second quarter of 2004. I have tried to identify the last time the J-curve worked. It's represented by the rectangular area, highlighted on the chart. The dollar peaked in 1985 (red line). It then fell in value until 1988 before the current account deficit (blue line) began to improve. This also shows the fall in the dollar Peterson was referring to. Many believe it was a major catalyst for the 1987 stock-market crash.

Ominous parallels
"Economic history is utterly devoid of examples of current account adjustments that are not accompanied by significantly weaker currencies." - Stephen Roach, Morgan Stanley

I was thinking about the historical parallels in the economic environment now compared with then - during the time of the last dollar crisis. Here's what I came up with:

Then............................................................................Now



Go-go '60s stock-market boom (conglomerates craze) --- '90s stock-market boom (Internet craze)
Vietnam quagmire & communist dominoes --- Iraq quagmire & "war on terror"
Soaring budget deficit ---- Soaring budget deficit
Rising energy prices --- Rising energy prices
Rising interest rates to stem inflation --- Rising interest rates to "normalize" the Fed funds rate
Soaring commodities prices (inflation driven) --- Rising commodities prices (for now, supply/demand imbalance)

But as bad as it seemed back then, the global financial system now appears much more unbalanced. The United States and China seem to be the sole economic engines of growth in the world. And the deficit is in historically uncharted territory and lurching from one fresh all-time record to another.

The dollar fell approximately 42% from its peak in 1985 to its trough in November of 1990 before the current-account balance turned positive again (when the deficit was 3.5% of GDP). This is the "adjustment" Roach is referring to. And it's why Roach believes a dollar crisis could "soon" be upon us.

From the peak in this cycle, February 2002, through September 2004, the dollar has fallen only 23%. The current account is now approaching twice what it was when it finally bottomed in 1988. So if we use the current-account "adjustment" as a guide, we should multiply the 42% decline by a factor of two to determine just how far the dollar must fall before solving the current-account problem - that's 84%!

It may seem silly to conceive of the world's reserve currency, the US dollar, falling that much. But if we consider there is little else on the horizon other than a fall in the dollar to help rebalance this situation, an 84% decline starts to look more plausible.

Chinese 'revaluation': That dog might not hunt
"In some ways, the 19th-century version of the global capitalist system was more stable than the current one. It had a single currency, gold; today there are three major currencies crashing against each other like continental plates." - George Soros, The Crisis of Global Capitalism

The three currencies Soros was referring to are the US dollar, the euro and the Japanese yen. And he is right. But the dollar's fate will probably flow one way or another from China.

Now that you understand how deeply the United States is entrenched in deficit, you can understand why the US is pressuring China to "revalue" its currency. The US does not have the political will to do what it takes on the spending side of the equation to improve its financial position.

"For the first time in the post-World War II era, the United States faces a future in which every major category of federal spending is projected to grow at least as fast as, or faster than, the economy for many years to come. That means not just pension and health-care benefits for retiring 'baby boomers', or increasing interest payments as deficits and interest rates rise, but also appropriated or 'discretionary' spending for national defense, for foreign aid, and for domestic homeland-security programs," writes Peterson.

In a country where voters know they can vote themselves the goodies and have accepted the term "war on terror", it's highly unlikely the US can get its fiscal side under control for many years to come. Thus the howls for China to do something with its currency grow louder.


There is one major problem with the Chinese "revaluation" scenario: There are no guarantees that once China allows the dollar-yuan rate to move within a "more flexible band" that its currency will appreciate against the dollar or that it will significantly benefit US manufacturers. Here are four reasons:

First of all, the chances of some type of big-bang revaluation in the dollar-yuan rate are slim to none. Chinese policymakers do not believe the yuan is overvalued. And I believe the most they will do is slightly widen the trading band around the 8.28-yuan-per-dollar rate that now exists.

Second, if China utilizes a trade-weighted approach to calculating its trading band, which is likely, because the US is the largest trading partner, and because said band will move on a trade-weighted value, not China's fundamentals, the index will not fluctuate a great deal against the dollar.

Third, it's not necessarily a differential in exchange rates that will solve the competitive differences between China's exports and the rest of the world. With China's abundant supply of very cheap labor, state-of-the-art manufacturing capabilities and world-class infrastructure, it will take much more than a shift in exchange rates before the goods flow comes into balance.

And finally, if financial liberalization includes reducing capital controls, the private sector has significant scope to raise its foreign-currency holdings (of US dollars).

US policymakers are depending heavily on a Chinese revaluation and a corresponding improvement in the balance of trade with China. But that dog might not hunt.

The dollar's Achilles' heel
"Causa remota of the crisis is speculation and extended credit; causa proxima is some incident which snaps the confidence of the system, makes people think of the dangers of failure, and leads them to move from commodities, stocks, real estate, bills of exchange - whatever it may be - back into cash."
- Charles Kindleberger, Manias, Panics, and Crashes

Causa romota: An explosion of credit from bank lending and fixed investment pouring into China.

Causa proxima: A hard landing in China.

"When the Asian financial crisis hit in 1997-98, the US Federal Reserve tolerated a liquidity boom that spawned the Internet bubble. When the Internet bubble burst, the Fed tolerated another wave of liquidity, which has led to the global property bubble," says Andy Xie of Morgan Stanley. I would say, "Bingo!"


The Economist magazine recently summed it up this way: "China's boom is itself partly the product of the Fed's super-lax monetary policy. With its currency pegged to the dollar, China has been forced to import America's easy monetary conditions. Its [China's] higher interest rates have attracted large inflows of capital that have inflated domestic liquidity, encouraging excessive investment and bank lending in some sectors which could lead to a bust."

With the Fed now in a tightening mode, the music in China could soon end. And the scramble "back into cash" from "commodities, stocks, and real estate", as Kindleberger describes, could soon begin. When it does, it's very bad news for the buck.

When the US financial markets cratered in early 2000 after one of the biggest financial parties in the history of mankind, the Fed quickly stepped in to fill the void with liquidity. This is why the so-called "emergency" Fed funds rate of 1.0% materialized. The Fed made it clear to all it would err on the side of creating global asset bubbles in stocks, bonds and real estate to stave off the bogeyman of global deflation. Well, the Fed succeeded beyond anyone's wildest expectations at the time.

To get a sense of the massive liquidity created by the Fed, consider that Asian central banks are now sitting atop an estimated $2.2 trillion in foreign-exchange reserves - double their 2002 total. In other words, Asian banks were able to recycle $1.1 trillion into US Treasury bonds - driving yields lower and creating a virtuous circle for US consumers - increasing US demand for Asian exports.

As Treasury bonds soared and US demand rose, stocks revived. "It's the 1990s again," rattled the talking heads on CNBC. But the big winner in this liquidity game was global real estate."The world is sitting on top one of the biggest property bubbles in history, with the biggest bits in China and the US, in my view," says Xie.


There is nothing new in what we are seeing in China. Massive lending funneled into property and commodities speculation: it's the classic boom-bust credit cycle. The late economist Ludwig von Mises wrote:

The drop in interest rates falsifies the businessman's calculation. Although the amount of capital goods available did not increase, the calculation employs figures that would be utilizable only if such an increase had taken place. The result of such calculations is therefore misleading. They make some projects appear profitable and realizable, which a correct calculation, based on an interest rate not manipulated by credit expansion, would have shown as unrealizable. Entrepreneurs embark upon the execution of such projects. Business activities are stimulated. A boom begins.

Artificially low interest rates in China have supercharged property speculation. Entrepreneurs, savers, overseas Chinese investors and international institutions have jumped into this "easy" money-making game. It's reminiscent of the "easy money" days trading the Nasdaq in 1999. The human frenzy and delusion are similar in tone.

Chinese government attempts to circumvent the price system through central planning/rationing, instead of market-based credit allocation through the interest rate, are exacerbating the boom-bust cycle in China. Inadvertently, they are sending the wrong messages to the market.

"The boom can last only as long as the credit expansion progresses at an ever-accelerated pace," wrote von Mises. Fed tightening is working its way through the global financial system. Soaring crude oil prices are dampening growth prospects. Property prices in Australia and the United Kingdom are already falling. And policymakers are continuing to apply the brakes in China where they can.

These are the dynamics that scream for an eventual bust in China. I believe this will be the catalyst for a dollar crisis. It could be a wake-up call to US policymakers. They may realize that ignorance is no longer strength when it comes to the deficit. But by the time they act, most of the damage will probably already be done.

Timing it right

Here's an indicator that may help us with the timing of a fall in the dollar (taken from Black Swan Currency Currents, October 7):

US president Richard Nixon closed the gold window in 1971, severing the link between the dollar and gold once and for all. Robert Bartley, the now-deceased longtime editor of the Wall Street Journal and a brilliant man to boot, said when the dollar went off the gold standard crude oil went on the gold standard. He explained that the oil crisis in 1973 was in reality a foreign-exchange crisis (Money Bazaar, Andrew Krieger). In other words, the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries realized the dollars it was receiving for its crude oil was buying a lot less than it did before the gold link with the buck was severed. Thus it was time for a little price hike.

Okay, fast-forward. Oil is still priced in dollars and now at an all-time high, we all know that. But what is interesting is that the real cost of oil, if we consider gold to be the standard, is also close to an all-time high (calculated by the number of barrels of oil one ounce of gold will buy). This could have some implications for the greenback.

CHART

Let's say you are in control of the world's money supply. And you see that the cost of oil is threatening global economic growth. And let's also say that you keep an eye on gold prices because you once wrote a paper extolling the virtues of gold. And let us say your last name starts with the letter G. Okay, the stage is set. What do you do now?

Hmm, you're thinking: if I can somehow get the dollar price of gold to increase, it might take a lot of pressure off of the global economy by reducing the real cost of oil and clear the way for sustained economic growth. If you're thinking that, then you're thinking a weaker dollar.
 

ReiAyanami

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2002
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all the big billionaires are betting that the dollar will collapse (George Soros, Warren Buffett)

Euro appreciated 50% in just a few years (.8 to 1.25 USD)
the Yen i think gained 20-30%

but facing $10 trillion debt 10 years from now, that means we'll also be paying over half a trillion in interest each year ($500 billion).

Half of all US treasuries are bought by foreigners
2/3rds of all US dollars sit in foreign banks so a dollar collapse would send South America and Asia into recession as well
 

Spencer278

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 2002
3,637
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Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
all the big billionaires are betting that the dollar will collapse (George Soros, Warren Buffett)

Euro appreciated 50% in just a few years (.8 to 1.25 USD)
the Yen i think gained 20-30%

but facing $10 trillion debt 10 years from now, that means we'll also be paying over half a trillion in interest each year ($500 billion).

Half of all US treasuries are bought by foreigners
2/3rds of all US dollars sit in foreign banks so a dollar collapse would send South America and Asia into recession as well

The collasp of the dollar would send every where into a recession. Trillions of dollars in wealth would be gone over night. Combined with a shut down in just about every market because no one is going to want any money
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
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Maybe this is why american companies are expanding, and the foreign investers are loaning the US money, even the companies know that the US economy is weak and they want to diversify their holdings to weather the storm.
If they are selling products in other currencies, they are less dependent on american funds. Big deal if they have to shut down a main office in the US, that happens all the time.

It's not all doom and gloom, but the fiscal situation in the US is not something to ignore.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
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The 'J' curve is not applicable in a world economy gone south...

Think about the value of the hard assets held by foreigners.. Then the super inflation's affect on fixed earning 'paper'...

Then toss in the transfer to the Euro as the world's currency as the dollar dies..

We need to isolate and do so over the next few years... build our own manufacturing base back up again and get our people to work... this will stimulate the demand for our goods and rescue what is sure to occur if we don't.



edit... change when to what..
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
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I remember all the nationalists/racist category of conservatives snickering at the Euro back in the day... Looks like the Euro is doing better than the dollar eh? Some people even think Saddam's new penchant for euros might have caused the gulf war.
 

0marTheZealot

Golden Member
Apr 5, 2004
1,692
0
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Originally posted by: LunarRay
The 'J' curve is not applicable in a world economy gone south...

Think about the value of the hard assets held by foreigners.. Then the super inflation's affect on fixed earning 'paper'...

Then toss in the transfer to the Euro as the world's currency as the dollar dies..

We need to isolate and do so over the next few years... build our own manufacturing base back up again and get our people to work... this will stimulate the demand for our goods and rescue what is sure to occur if we don't.



edit... change when to what..

how are we going to do that? outsourcing has sent most of the manufactoring overseas. they wont be coming back unless a political measure is taken.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Originally posted by: LunarRay
The 'J' curve is not applicable in a world economy gone south...

Think about the value of the hard assets held by foreigners.. Then the super inflation's affect on fixed earning 'paper'...

Then toss in the transfer to the Euro as the world's currency as the dollar dies..

We need to isolate and do so over the next few years... build our own manufacturing base back up again and get our people to work... this will stimulate the demand for our goods and rescue what is sure to occur if we don't.



edit... change when to what..

how are we going to do that? outsourcing has sent most of the manufactoring overseas. they wont be coming back unless a political measure is taken.

Well.. we've to get out of the current economic burden we operate under... WTO and NAFTA. It is a transition and a philosophy to American made goods and services that has to occur over time. Not tomorrow.
I guess I'd start by getting into government to brainiest thinkers and let them go to work.. ala Perot's thinking back in '92. We need folks who have our best interest in mind not theirs....
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Bump. Another important story that will never distract most Americans from their "reality" TV ... at least not until it's too late.
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,178
1
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Originally posted by: Kibbo
Buy Canadian.

Speaking of which, they're predicting it'll be even with the US buck in a year or so. Time to go shopping for cheap stuff south of border, eh? Some electrtonics are quite expensive here.
 

0marTheZealot

Golden Member
Apr 5, 2004
1,692
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The dollar is backed by nothing but its confidence. The government is just printing FIAT. There is no gold/silver/anything backing it up. We are quite possibly in dire straits economically.

OPEC has seriously considered moving oil transactions to other currencies than the dollar. That'd spell the doom for the dollar in about 34 seconds.
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,978
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very happy to see this post, didnt think most Americans were aware of the problem with our FIAT currency, fractional banking system, our debt load, etc.....

My advice,buy silver, REAL silver, more rare than Gold with supply/demand fundamentals that are out of whack. The price has been manipulated since the Hunt brothers took a run at the market, do a little research of your own if ya like. Metals have been in a bull market for a good few years now, with silver outperforming EVERYTHING, and it will be a HUGE moneymaker when it all blows....
 

imported_Aelius

Golden Member
Apr 25, 2004
1,988
0
0
Originally posted by: Alistar7
very happy to see this post, didnt think most Americans were aware of the problem with our FIAT currency, fractional banking system, our debt load, etc.....

My advice,buy silver, REAL silver, more rare than Gold with supply/demand fundamentals that are out of whack. The price has been manipulated since the Hunt brothers took a run at the market, do a little research of your own if ya like. Metals have been in a bull market for a good few years now, with silver outperforming EVERYTHING, and it will be a HUGE moneymaker when it all blows....

That would explain why the Libertarian presidential candidate "Michael Badnarik" would want to close shop on the Federal Reserve (private company) and have the dollar re-printed by the US government and backed by silver.

Everyone called him a looney, even many Libertarians, for wanting to back it with silver. If you're right then it explains why he said that.

Last time someone wanted to get rid of the Federal Reserve, among other things *cough* CIA *cough*, it was a siting president who got a couple of bullets in the head. Lets hope that doesn't happen again.

Not that the LP will get a President this year. The deck is stacked against 3rd parties.
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,978
0
0
Oh my someone who knows the FEDERAL reserve is actually PRIVATE banks, lol. Hey WORLD the US is about to give it to you up the butt very soon, thanks for buying our useless paper, errr dollars.....

BTW there isnt enough silver left in the world to coin american currency, COMEX stocks hover around 100,000,000 ounces.....

http://www.kitco.com/market/
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,978
0
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Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Bump. Another important story that will never distract most Americans from their "reality" TV ... at least not until it's too late.

Not me baby, I've got POUNDS of real physical silver just waiting for the fall, already happening BTW, just waiting to cash in soon......
 

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
3,204
1
76
Long but interesting article:

Riding for a Fall
Peter G. Peterson
From Foreign Affairs, September/October 2004

Peter G. Peterson is Chairman of the Council on Foreign Relations, the Institute for International Economics, and The Blackstone Group. He served as Secretary of Commerce in the Nixon administration.

Summary: Three long-term trends are threatening to bankrupt America: the burgeoning costs of waging the war on terrorism, the U.S. economy's increasing reliance on foreign capital, and rapid aging throughout the developed world. Washington must understand that committing the United States to a broader global role while ignoring the financial costs of doing so is deeply irresponsible.


...

"To paraphrase the poet John Donne, no nation is an island, least of all a superpower with such manifest responsibilities as the United States has in a newly dangerous world. But to commit America to a broader role while remaining blindly ignorant of the ultimate cost of doing so is sheer folly. Clearly, there are long-term tradeoffs to be faced: between economic security and national security, between retirement security and national security, and between today's taxpayers and tomorrow's taxpayers. As yet, however, the leaders of the two major political parties have hardly mentioned these tradeoffs, much less discussed them seriously. When it comes to the long-term fiscal and economic future, U.S. leaders are mute not only on domestic challenges but on global challenges too."

...

For the first time in the post-World War II era, the United States faces a future in which every major category of federal spending is projected to grow at least as fast as, or faster than, the economy for many years to come. That means not just pension and health-care benefits for retiring "baby boomers," or increasing interest payments as deficits and interest rates rise, but also appropriated or "discretionary" spending for national defense, for foreign aid, and for domestic homeland security programs.

The Bush administration has adjusted long-term discretionary spending projections upward from where they were in the Clinton era--but it has not done so sufficiently. In the post-September 11 world, Americans should not be banking on significant reductions in the level of discretionary spending, at least not without assurance that the danger has passed. They certainly should not imagine that any such reductions would pay for further tax cuts or allow the U.S. government to postpone reform of unsustainable retirement benefit programs.

SECOND GLOBAL CHALLENGE: A HARD LANDING

The United States is now borrowing about $540 billion per year from the rest of the world to pay for the overall deficit funding Americans' consumption of goods and services and U.S. foreign aid transfers. This unprecedented current account deficit is paid for through direct lending and the net sales of U.S. assets to foreign businesses or persons: everything from stocks and bonds to corporations and real estate. The United States imports roughly $4 billion of foreign capital each day, half of that to cover the current-account deficit and the other half to finance investments abroad. At 5.4 percent of GDP in the first quarter of 2004, this deficit is substantially higher than its previous record (3.5 percent of GDP) in 1987, when the dollar fell by a third and the stock market took its "Black Monday" plunge. And experts at the New York Federal Reserve Bank and the Institute for International Economics predict that this deficit will grow even larger.

The rise in the current account deficit over the past 30 years is linked to a long-term decline in U.S. national savings, which is in part driven by widening U.S. federal budget deficits. Over time, chronic borrowing has accumulated into large debts owed to other countries. U.S. citizens must pay for these increasing liabilities with a growing annual debt-service charge, consisting mainly of interest and dividend payments. This charge is very sensitive to interest rates--going up when interest rates go up--and its growth over time will itself widen the current account deficit.

If nothing else were to change, borrowing would continue until foreigners accumulated all the U.S. assets they cared to own, at which point a rise in interest rates (choking off investment) and a decline in the dollar (choking off imports and stimulating exports) would gradually close the current-account deficit. It would not entirely disappear, but it would close sufficiently to stabilize foreign holdings as a share of the U.S. economy.
Afterward, Americans would cease to borrow as much from the rest of the world. In the absence of an increase in the national savings rate, people would just have to get by with less investment in their own economy and debt-service payments would no longer rise. Instead, Americans would simply make do with less capital, slower growth in GDP, and, of course, a slower rate of increase in their living standards.

Dreary as this scenario is, this sort of "soft landing" is the very best outcome we could expect so long as the United States' future fiscal path and national savings rate remain unchanged. But according to many economists, it is quite possible that the dynamic of gradual adjustment will at some point be trumped by a sudden loss of confidence, leading to a run on the dollar. If the dollar were to overshoot in a large and sudden plunge, inflation and interest rates could well jump substantially and financial markets could ratchet downward. The United States has already experienced some sort of dollar run four times over the last 30 years--in 1971-73, 1978-79, 1985-87, and 1994-95--with far less daunting projections than those of today. They typically began after the dollar had already been declining gently for some time. None was as serious as the hard landing the United States may yet face.


The next dollar run, should it happen, would likely lead to serious reverberations in the "real" economy, including a loss of consumer and investor confidence, a severe contraction, and ultimately a global recession. Soaring interest rates would cause the federal deficit to jump, as U.S. Treasury bond buyers demanded much higher returns. If short-term Treasury rates were to jump back to the four to five percent range, federal interest outlays would climb by $30 billion in the first year and by as much as $50 billion in the second year. Rather than improve the prospect of fiscal reform, gloomy economic conditions could delay it further.

Virtually none of the policy leaders, financial traders, and economists interviewed by this author believes the U.S. current account deficit is sustainable at current levels for much longer than five more years. Many see a real risk of a crisis. Former Federal Reserve Chairman Paul Volcker says the odds of this happening are around 75 percent within the next five years; former Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin talks of "a day of serious reckoning." What might trigger such a crisis? Almost anything: an act of terrorism, a bad day on Wall Street, a disappointing employment report, or even a testy remark by a central banker.


Skeptics say not to worry because governments around the world would never allow a crisis to happen. They would intervene massively to support the American currency by buying dollars. Indeed, they might try. But foreign governments might lose their nerve sooner than place vast sums of their own taxpayers' money into declining dollar-denominated assets. And once the mood of private investors worldwide changed decisively, there would be little that governments could do, even if they had nerves of steel. The magnitude of tradable assets around the world (global stock markets alone are now capitalized at over $30 trillion) would overwhelm the efforts of even the most dedicated band of central bankers or treasurers."

...
Haruhiko Kuroda, special adviser to Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi and former vice finance minister for international affairs, is a world-class financial expert. My recent conversation with him on the issue of aging in the developed world was illuminating. He confirmed that the combination of an aging society and low birth rates in Japan remains a big problem and that, with a 25 percent drop in the number of workers under the age of 30 forecast in the next decade, Japan will face unprecedented deficits in the future. How, I asked, will Japan fund these deficits? "As you know, we have a big savings rate and a big capital account surplus. For some period, we can use those resources," he responded. "But Mr. Kuroda, you are now financing about a quarter of America's current account deficit. Can you really spend the same money twice?" I asked. "Yes. It is a very difficult problem."

etc.

-----------------------
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,978
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
So the opinion in here is that Americans will be trading lumps of silver or gold like the Wild West Days again soon???

Cool :cool:

Unfortunately not although there is a town out west that is using real silver coins minted by the local mining town. Actual worldwide silver stocks, and I am being extremely generous here, are not even enough for each American to have ONE silver coin that weighs one troy ounce. Silver is ten times more rare than gold now, as 99% of all gold ever mined is still around. We accumalate gold, silver is used with at least some if not most being consumed by it's application. The largest amount of silver that is reclaimed is through film, as digital applications take over the amount needed to produce film is lowered, but the main reclamation source is also subsquently lost.

There are two reasons silver can and will shoot to the moon, one being the dollar crisis, the other being the actual fundamentals. Globally about 750,000,000 ounces are needed annually while roughly 500,000,000 ounces are mined. That deficit has been made up by silver stocks that are essentially gone for good now, it's been depleted by this deficit over the last 20 years. Think of supply/demand and what normally happens as supply declines and demand does not, usually the price will rise and temper demand until an equilibrium is reached. This will not be the case with silver as it is price inelastic. When silver hit $50 an ounce under the Hunt brothers run, Kodak suddenly had to spend a whopping $0.01 for the silver content in a roll of film. The minute amount used by comparision in electronics means that if silver blows to $2,000 an ounce, suddenly you would have to spend $0.10 on silver to build your average computer. There will be no tempering demand due to rising price as normally happens, the price inelasticity is so drastic that electronics manufacturers alone will drive the price even higher. There is not even enough left for China to build the required power grid system they will need, let alone all the other essential uses.

I bet on the fundamentals and the price inelasticity until I became more aware of the dollar issue, which is nothing short of terrifying. The last poster shed more light on the amount of foreign capital NEEDED to prop up the dollar. Right now the US NEEDS to have just over 75% of ALL FOREIGN INVESTMENT CAPITAL put into the dollar, at our current rate of deficit spending in less than 5 years we will NEED 125% of all foreign investment capital. Anyone that can tell me how we can get 125% of anything please LMK.

The sad part is that money that they are buying is not even counted as part of the M3 (money supply), but will be when it comes home to roost. As they sell and it comes back to America that's when it becomes part of the money supply. We are about to experience inflation possibly along the lines of German pre ww1, maybe worse. The amount of money the fed has printed the last 20 years is mind boggling, and it has been infused into our system through DEBT, free credit for everyone. Put your seatbelts on everyone, cuz this baby is gonna crash. EVERY fiat currency in history has failed, ours will be no different, it will actually be worse due to the policies our govt. and the fed have employed.



 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,978
0
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Don't take my word for it, who is the worlds largest investor in silver?


Warren Buffet, but what does he know about investing......
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
29,470
1
81
Ok...Warren Buffet thinks the dollar is weak and getting weaker. This is bad because....?

There was already a thread about this.
 

ReiAyanami

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2002
4,466
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yeah, that warren buffet is a joke, he is only the 2nd richest man. if he were really smart he'd be the 1st richest but he isn't which proves him wrong. bill gates alone has $4 billion more than him!!