old thread closed -- 760MPX motherboard thread

[Papineau]

I've been waiting for info on all the new boards based on the 760MPX, and frankly, I think I'll just go with the Tyan Tiger MP (not MPX).

Let me explain my point: The vast majority of the new boards don't have more than 3 usable PCI slots (for which everybody has some cards, or can get some easily), and I happen to have 4 in my PC right now. So 3 is not enough for me.

I know for sure the Asus A7M266-D, Tyan Tiger MPX and Gigabyte GA-7DPXDW (from manufacturers website or datasheet), and probably some if not all of the other ones, have 2 64bit/66MHz PCI slots, which are only keyed for 3.3V cards. I don't own any card compatible with that standard, and I doubt a lot of you do have something to put in there. This uses some precious space on the PCB, space that I'll probably never use that way, but could use if it was a regular 5V PCI slot. It's a bit like the AMR slot on some motherboards: it's nice, but who uses it? I'd rather have a 6th or 7th PCI slot!

Also, it seems (at least from the Asus) that there's no USB onboard. Instead, they provide a USB 2.0 PCI card. So it uses on of the already scarce PCI slots! Note that the info regarding this is rather contradictory: the specifications on the website says an add-on card, while the manual (which seems older) says 2 onboard plus a cable to add 2 others. I'm not sure about the other boards, as I don't have any USB peripherals and don't plan on buying some in the foreseeable future, so I didn't really bother with it.

When less info was available about the 760MPX, I was really looking forward to buy the Asus offering. I presently have an Asus P2B-D, fitted with 2 PII-400, and it served me well, so I wanted to replace it by another from a manufacturer I had good experience with. But now, my choice is almost final: it'll be a Tyan Tiger MP. The fact that it's readily available pushes for it also, along with the fact that it's been out for awhile, and that Tyan seems to have a lot to offer on the stability front (the max FSB I ever tried was 103MHz, a whooping 3%, so overclocking is not really a feature I'm looking after).

The advantages of the 760MPX over the 760MP are not big enough, and they really are almost the same thing:
[*]If you want more than 2 DIMMs, you must use registered RAM
[*]Almost all the boards (except Tiger MP) needs a 12V connector in addition to the regular ATX connector

For whoever wants to dig further, links to the "official" sites:
Tyan Thunder K7 (S2462): http://www.tyan.com/products/html/thunderk7.html
Tyan Tiger MP (S2460): http://www.tyan.com/products/html/tigermp.html
Tyan Tiger MPX (S2466): http://www.tyan.com/products/html/tigermpx.html
Asus A7M266-D: http://www.asus.com.tw/mb/socketa/a7m266-d/overview.htm
Gigabyte GA-7DPXDW: http://networking.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Products_ServerBoard_Spec.asp?ProductID=25 (you must login as guest the first time, with cookies enabled)

Note that I couldn't find some "official" info on the MSI, EPoX and Abit offerings.

 

[SUOrangeman]

Pap-

I'm sharing your line of thinking on this matter. I just haven't had the courage to go ahead a buy one of the exisiting Tyan boards (read, "the cheapest Tyan").

While I'm only using one PCI slot at present (sound), not having an onboard Ethernet port could severely limit me down the line. I have SIX USB devices (including keybaord and mouse), so that's crucial to me as well. I doubt I'll ever need anything that requires a 64-bit PCI slot. Heck, other than the ocassional gigabit Ethernet adapter or some monstrous RAID controller, what else comes in 64-bit PCI fashion? Also, when will folks get serious about putting FireWire and USB2 onboard?

On the other hand, I like the wider support for the 760MPX chipset from someone other than Tyan. It's certainly not Tyan's quality is lacking, but I's like to see some variations and support for a wider range of features. Sure overclocking support is nice, but I'd doubt I'd ever tap into it. Onbaord RAID is basically a no-go for me as well. But, having some options in front of me helps.

I think all AMD-made chipsets require registered RAM if more than 2 sticks are used (at least in the 76x series). I've also got some legit links in my above post for Epox and MSI.

-SUO

 

[Papineau]

SUO,

I didn't do a very good search either . I really should have checked your post before saying some oddities.

For the increased features due to the diversity of manufacturer, agreed. But when none fits what you'd like... I'd like to have 4 IDE ports on the motherboard. I'd like to have dual 3Com onboard, or even only one. But I'm not a board designer. At least, not of that complexity (just for microcontrollers). So I go with what I can find.

Another advantage of the Tiger MP over part of the competition: it's cheaper, and it doesn't require a special PSU, just one with enough current on the +5V (mostly).

The last bit that worries me is the choice of HSF. If I checked the pictures correctly, the Tiger MP doesn't have holes around the sockets, so the HS needs to be clipped to the socket. That's not what I prefer. And I haven't checked yet which heatsinks actually fit on it. The quietest the better... as I usually sleep in the same room, while it's on.

Not sure about the last bit concerning 76x and registered RAM... I never checked, but I don't recall the 761 NB needed registered RAM. Or maybe all board manufacturers outfitted it with only 2 DIMMs? I don't remember as I wasn't interested in that platform.

Thanks for correcting me!

 

[Moohooya]

I'm trying to hold out for an mpx, but I'm wondering if I will. Onboard sound would be cool as my current sound cars is ISA and hence will need replacing. An onboard NIC would also be cool, or else I'll have to buy one of these too. I'd like to OC, but I guess I could live without it.

Decisions decisions....

 

[SUOrangeman]

I am so tempted to just pick up the Tyan Tiger MP and another 1600MP this morning. Just $385 from Comp-U-Plus and it would be here on Monday. However, I, too, would make use of any additional non-RAID IDE ports and an onboard NIC. I could be looking at 6 IDE devices here shortly. Maybe I just need a killer coupon to puch me over the edge. I've already got everything else, including one 1600MP and two HSFs (need a new fan on one though).

Speaking of HSFs, I am using the Taisol CGK742092 cooler on my existing 1600MP. Forged aluminum and a quiet 4500RPM (or so) 60mm x 60mm x 10mm Delta fan. The temp stays at 102F. It uses the socket clips and is doing much better than my former 1.4 retail T-bird, which hovered around 125F. It was ease to install (with a screwdriver, hehe) without a shim. Considering that I paid about $20 for each heatshink, I'm very happy.

-SUO

 

[Moohooya]

The Tiger MP is still floating around $200. Seems that it hasn't gone down recently, which I keep hoping it will as soon as the MPXs are out.

EPoX say that their MPX board will be out January...

Which cases are ppl thinking of using for their new dualie? I know I asked this before, but the thread was deleted before I had a chance to boomark the cases that looked good. I'm after as small as possiable, while still running cool. (I'll only have a SCSI card, NIC if not one included, sound card if I end up with an MP. 2-3 HD, DVD and CDRW.)

What is the latest on these new weird power supplies. I saw a board which had a standard drive connector (the 4 pin gng, +5, +12). Seems like a cool idea. Anyone know which powersuplies do supply this new connector if the MB requires it?

Finally, heatsinks. Without going balistic, what should I be looking for? I think I'm leaning towards two XP 1500, unlocked and running at whatever I can getout of it. (1700-1800 would be cool). I'd rather not spend $50x2 on a pair of overkill heatsinks. I prefer quiet to that extra 100-200MHz

Thanks all

 

[SUOrangeman]

If you look around in Hot Deals, the Tiger MP can be had NOW for $185 shipped.

I've already got my ATX-9001 case from Codegen with a 350W PSU. I got it from OpenLinx for $70 shipped. I think it meets the requirements for most of the MPX boards (even with a P4 12V connector). Only the first Tyan boards (Thunder) seemed to need a unique connector/PSU.

-SUO

 

[GasPath]

I'm almost ready to launch into building this system, but it looks like the majority of the folks listing "760MPX" mobos on the net will not have stock until mid January. I did find the Tyan at Gateway for about $185, but after reading THIS article on Anandtech.com, I have decided that I am waiting for a mobo with the 760MPX chipset. But all you waiting need to read the article, especially if you plan on sticking a 33mhz PCI card in one of those 66mhz slots.

DDR Ram has went up significantly, raising the cost of this system, since UPS cannot find the memory I ordered over a month ago. I'm leaning at DDR2700, since when it comes to memory, I don't want it becoming obsolete too soon (much like SDRAM is now). I also haven't seen any DEALS on processors: like some store where you can apply a coupon or a discount. It still seems that the XP1600 is still the best price point for this system, but with the impending release of the XP2000, prices might drop again. Read the above article for a quick note on the difference between the MP and XP line of processors concerning the bridges.

Go over to HOT DEALS and get in on this 500W power supply. Since I do my own case mods (usually taking old AT Tower cases and modifying them for ATX) this power supply looks good for this project. I ordered one.

Hopefully, this forum will start filling up with folks putting these first 760MPX systems together.

Duallies for the masses.

 

[Papineau]

GasPath,

Which part of the linked article was decisive for you? And for what kind of work will you use it (server, enthusiasm, OC, worksation)?

From my analysis, here's the big points of the 760MPX vs the 760MP (as taken from the article):
[*]Two PCI buses: one 33/66MHz 32/64 bits PCI bus, and one 33MHz 32 bits. Up to 2 66MHz devices can be attached to the first one, but if you put something different from a 66MHz 64 bits card, it will revert back to a slower speed for both cards.
[*]That same bus (66MHz 64bits) is used to connect the NB and the SB, with a peak bandwidth of 533MB/s. Of course, if you put a 33MHz 64 bits card in one of the 2 66MHz slots, that peak bandwidth will halve to 266MB/s, which is the same speed than the 760MP. And if you put a 33MHz 32 bits card, you've got 133MB/s between the NB and SB.

That's pretty much it! Feel free fo correct me if I wrongly stated, or forgot, something.
I also went back to the 760MP article, to check what are the capabilities of it... and I didn't find some better info. Nothing to prevent me from buying a Tiger MP.

Anand has compared the 760MPX mostly with ServerWorks or high-end Intel chipsets, which would be more useful in a server environment. I would rather compare it to the BX: larger encompassing, but still able to work a few years down the road.

I'm not sure about PC2700 RAM: I don't think it is a IEEE standard yet, and seeing the kind of compatibility problems people got with plain PC2100 RAM, all I can say is: Good luck! For myself, I'll preferably take 2 sticks of 512MB PC2100 registered CAS2. Now, if I only can find a store willing to ship at a reasonable fee to Canada (or better yet, from Canada...)

Cheers

 

[IntelConvert]

True or not, that's how I interpret the PCI situation also...

 

[senior guy]

I want Asus' board (with bundled USB 2.0 card) and while it isn't in stock yet, Pricegrabber lists its best price at $239.

 

[Moohooya]

Is the lack of USB support a 760MPX issue, or did asus just ball something up?

 

[Diable]

It seems to be a problem with the 760MPX. The reason I say that is the data sheet for Tyan's new MPX board(here's a link)and its web page(link)no longer lists it as having USB ports.

 

[AGodspeed]

It seems to be a problem with the 760MPX. The reason I say that is the data sheet for Tyan's new MPX board(here's a link)and its web page(link)no longer lists it as having USB ports.

There has been a rumored problem with USB 1.1 support. Anand himself mentioned in his latest MPX article that he encountered no problems with USB 1.1

If there really is a problem, it won't matter if the mainboard manufacturers decide to simply not support USB 1.1, and USB 2.0 instead.

 

[Papineau]

<< If there really is a problem, it won't matter if the mainboard manufacturers decide to simply not support USB 1.1, and USB 2.0 instead. >>


Except that to use your shiny USB 2.0 ports, you'll have (at least with the ASUS) to use one of your PCI slots for it. The ports are not on the motherboard: they are on a PCI card that is bundled with the motherboard, the same way there's usually an IDE cable and some other accessories in a MB box.

For now, it doesn't affect me since I don't have any USB peripherals (apart from my monitor, but since it's only a hub, it doesn't really matter), but I'm sure this will affect the choice for a couple of you guys, especially given the fact that regular PCI slots are already scarce on that platform (760MPX).

The other point to keep in mind is how will all board manufacturers react? Will they all bundle a USB 2.0 PCI card, or will some try to squeeze some place on their boards for the controller? This could push back the release dates even further... And I don't think that no-USB is a way to go, even if I don't use it.

As soon as I come back from vacation, I'll begin to seriously look for that Tiger MP + 2x 1600+ MP + 2x 512MB PC2100 regis CAS2...

 

[senior guy]

<< ....but I'm sure this will affect the choice for a couple of you guys, especially given the fact that regular PCI slots are already scarce on that platform (760MPX). >>

Personally, I don't see that scarcity of PCI slots, but maybe that's because I'm perfectly content with the Asus' C-media sound. Furthermore, the new scanner I just got for Xmas (Epson 2450) has a USB 2.0 interface!

 

[Moohooya]

I also don't see a huge issue with the lack of PCI slots. With onboard sound, several promoting onboard NIC, some onboard RIAD, what cards other than an AGP video card are people going to be using?

Most people will not want a second NIC. If you do, then chances are you might even consider a 64bit NIC as obviously you have alot of network traffic.

Some people might want a video capture card, then chances are you won't want the second NIC as you are more interested in graphics.

I'll be putting in a SCSI card, but that still leaves me with a couple of empty slots as I don't need a second NIC or a video capture card.

So what else is there?

Did you all check out VIA's K7D Master Review

No mention of USB issues here

Happy new year to all, and keep posting

 

[IntelConvert]

Where's the PCI slot shortage? If you consider that you can even put normal 32bit PCI cards into the 64bit slots, you still have a total of 5 PCI slots!

On another matter, Anand really confused me with his statement to the effect that we should not expect MPX boards to be any faster than MPboards. If nothing else, I would think since the MPX chipset doubles the (MP's) bandwidth between the north and south bridges that in itself would make for a faster chipset and board.

 

[Moohooya]

You can't put any old 32 bit PCI card into the 66bit PCI slot. Note the keying for different voltages. (3.1 vs 5 I think)

Also, putting a 32 bit card into the 64 bit bus will bring the north/south bridge communications down to 32 bits. Putting in a 33MHz card, will further decrease that speed by another 50%. So unless you have a 64bit 66MHz card, I'd suggest not using the 64 bit slots. (Perhaps you could sacrifice 50% speed, by 75% seems too much to me.)

However, given onboard sounds and NIC, who will fill up the other 3 slots and still require a 4th?

 

[senior guy]

Moohooya~

I suspect that your PCI-bus related remarks are based on Anands MPX article. I'm not convinced that his findings on that reference board are indicative of production boards. But I too would not want to compromise the board's speed. As IntelConvert said above, Anand's comments about the speed of MPX vs MP boards is hard to swallow (earlier speculation was that the MPX chipset would be as fast as the KT266A)!

For a workstation PC, I personally favor the Asus board because it comes bundled with a USB 2.0 (PCI) card and has integrated C-media sound. But it doesn't come with a LAN chip so you have to add a NIC.

 

[Dewey]

IntelConvert,
Yes there are 5 slots but remember that the Asus A7M266-D is shipping with a USB 2.0 PCI card making that 4 slots.

 

[IntelConvert]

<< Yes there are 5 slots but remember that the Asus A7M266-D is shipping with a USB 2.0 PCI card making that 4 slots. >>

I intend to make good use of thAT USB 2.0 card. The mobo already has built-in sound which is quite good, so adding a NIC leaves 3 PCI slots (1x32b and 2x 64b). I don't have a clue what I'll need them for (unless someday I decide to add a 64b SCSI controller).

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU ALL

 

[Moohooya]

senior guy, correct I was using Anand's atricle as a source. Would be great if this is incorrect.

Why did the mpx not come out with usb 2.0 support, only 1.1 (I guess it is 1.1, but please correct me if I am wrong.) 1.1 still runs at the old 1.0 speed right?

 

[AllDressedUp]

Is anyone talkin Thoroughbred support on these boards yet? Can the MPX chipset support DDR333/166FSB?

And is it possible any boards will have 64-bit slots with switchable voltage for backwards compatability? (No, I haven't completely given up my dream of one day becoming a 2Xer.)

 

[senior guy]

<< Why did the mpx not come out with usb 2.0 support, only 1.1 (I guess it is 1.1, but please correct me if I am wrong.) 1.1 still runs at the old 1.0 speed right? >>

Yes, the same slow speed (12Mbps vs. 400+ Mbps). So far there's only one Socket-A mobo with integrated USB 2.0 (MSI's 'RU'). Don't understand myself why more are not including it (or Firewire).

IMHO, MPX is the way to go (if you can afford it!) - even if ya just want to start out with a single CPU (it and the 'older' MP are the only pure AMD chipsets (= reliable & stable)!!!


Wishing everyone a great 2002