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Old guy, not quite up on tech, needs help

K

kRocket

Member
I am disabled, live on a fixed income, play a lot of games, have a computer several years old that is failing to pass specs on some new games (Fable and Guild Wars). I do not play first person shooters. I am venturing to on-line games for first time although I rarely play anything but RPG's. I need help on cheap, effective upgrades that will take me gaming through the next couple of years.

System summary:
Computer:
Operating System Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
OS Service Pack Service Pack 2
DirectX 4.09.00.0904 (DirectX 9.0c)
Motherboard:
CPU Type AMD Athlon XP, 1281 MHz, 100 FSB
Motherboard MSI KT4V (MS-6712) (6 PCI, 1 AGP(4))
Chipset VIA VT8377 Apollo KT400
System Memory 256 MB (PC2700 DDR SDRAM)
BIOS Type AMI (09/27/02)
Display:
Video Adapter RADEON 7200 SERIES (64 MB)
3D Accelerator ATI Rage 6 (R100)
Multimedia: Audio Adapter Creative SB Live!
Storage:
IDE Controller VIA Bus Master IDE Controller
Floppy Drive Floppy disk drive
Disk Drive WDC WD400BB-00DEA0 (37 GB, IDE)
Optical Drive _NEC NR-7800B (16x/10x/40x CD-RW)
Optical Drive ASUS CD-S400 (40x CD-ROM)
Input:
Keyboard Standard 101/102-Key
Mouse HID-compliant mouse
Network:
Network Adap 2Wire Wireless USB adapter
Modem SupraMAX 56i
Peripherals:USB (4)

Please help me with recommendations for Memory, Processor, and Video Card upgrades. Please keep price/performance in mind. Thanks
 
Welcome to AT

CPU:
Without messing with BIOS updates, the fastest cpu you can seat on that board is a 2800+. link from ZZFly. $178 is certainly pricey though, due to socket a being obsolete now. You might be better served browsing ebay or the forsale/trade forum here for a better deal. THe 2800+ barton runs @ 2.08ghz and would be a nice boost over the axp you're using now.

RAM:
2x512 PC3200 from newegg. HOWEVER, this could warrant some attention. Personally i'd risk (not much of a risk) buying non "msi certified" pc3200 modules. That said, they certify corsair xms, though that stuff is more expensive than the Geil ram i linked.

Video Card:
If you can deal with rebates, there's an x850xt @ microcenter.com for $200 after a $50 mail in rebate. If you can't, newegg has a BFG 6800GS for $216 incl shipping. If that's too expensive, you'll see a giant boost over that Radeon 7200 from a simple 6600GT.

For the sake of example, you could upgrade to a socket 939 system for:
CPU: Venice 3200+ $160
RAM: same as above ($85)
Vid Card: X800GTO $160
Motherboard: MSI Neo4-F $80
Total: $485

As you can see, that's around $80 more than the socket a upgrade depending on whether or not you go for a used axp cpu. IMO a better idea if you can afford it.
 
Your kind of limited in upgrade options because of the older XP platform.

For around $200-225 you could get and AGP 6600GT video card and increase your ram to 512mb or 1gig. And if you want to upgrade the sound you could get and Audigy2 soundcard and some inexpensive 2.1 speakers for around $100. I wouldn't go any farther than that.

If you really want a significant upgrade

S939 mobo -ePox 9NPA ultra $100
Venice 3200+ $160
1gb PC3200 value ram $90
6800GS video card $200
this may require an upgraded power supply also $50-80
 
Think second hand, RAM would be a good idea, find someone who's going from 2x512 to 2x1028 and see if you can't get thiers.
 
Originally posted by: kRocket
Dirt
Click to expand...
The cheapest you're looking at is $65 for a used 2400+ or something (nocturnal had one a week back), $85 for the ram (1gb is necessary really), and $80 for a used radeon 9800pro.

To recap:

socket 939 upgrade: $485
high end socket a upgrade: $450
mid range socket a upgrade: $360
low end socket a upgrade (still easily doubling the power of your rig): $230
 
Malladine: Those are pretty expensive upgrades. I want to just get another 2 yrs out this box and then I am due for another. Tech will probably have changed to dual processor mandtory by then.
 
Originally posted by: kRocket
Malladine, et al. Gosh you guys are good. Thanks alot.
Click to expand...
anytime :beer:

I want to just get another 2 yrs out this box and then I am due for another
Click to expand...
Depending on whether or not you can handle running your games at 800x600 or *gasp* 640x480, you might struggle squeezing 2 years out of a radeon 9800 pro or 6600gt. Seek more opinions on this though.
 
If you want to game, you should do a minimal upgrade of ram from 256Megs to at minimum of 512megs, then you should get a cpu as well, even a barton 2500+ would be good, and a video card is a must, the 6800GS that was linked or the x850XT would be very good.

I would search the For Sale/For Trade forums for a decent cpu upgrade, or if you can not find one for a decent deal. You might want to think about buying a new motherboard, cpu, ram and video card. You would probably find a better deal on a Semperon 3100+ and a motherboard than buying an old Athlon XP cpu if you could find one that is supported for your present mobo. Then, get a minimum of 1 stick of PC3200 512Megs of value ram (preferably 2 x 512Megs), then add in a video card (depending if you stay with AGP or go with PCI-Ex) for around $200 and you should be set for gaming for at least a year or two.
 
Originally posted by: Malladine
Originally posted by: kRocket
Dirt
Click to expand...
The cheapest you're looking at is $65 for a used 2400+ or something (nocturnal had one a week back), $85 for the ram (1gb is necessary really), and $80 for a used radeon 9800pro.
Click to expand...
Agreed.

You CPU isn't that bad, but a 2400+/2600+/2800+ would give you quite a boost. You're best bet is to look for something used, like in the FS/FT forums here.

For RAM, same deal. If you can't find something used (you need at least another 512MB,) you can get a 1GB stick for about $75.

For an AGP video card upgrade, almost anything would be better than that ancient 7200. You can get a new 9600 for ~$70. Otherwise, look for a used 9600/9600XT/9800.


If your budget is tight, and you can't get it all at once, this is the order you need to upgrade for best peformance improvements:

1) RAM - you don't have nearly enough
2) Video - that card is older than you, relatively speaking 😛
3) CPU - yours is getting long in the tooth, but trails the other 2 areas in direness
 
Also, this thread in FS/FT looks like a potential gold mine for you upgrade. Just something to consider.

That $55 9600XT is a steal. That plus that 512MB stick of ram would probalby double your performance for under $100.
 
Athlon xp 2600 BARTON CPU with heatsink, used. On eBay, used 1 year. Current bid is 28.00 but will likely go up. What do you think?
 
Originally posted by: kRocket
I am disabled, live on a fixed income,
Click to expand...
I'm having to deal with a fixed income, although I think of myself as able bodied, employers had other ideas about it. I would have been working the past year and some, if it was up to me.
play a lot of games, have a computer several years old that is failing to pass specs on some new games (Fable and Guild Wars). I do not play first person shooters. I am venturing to on-line games for first time although I rarely play anything but RPG's.
Click to expand...
I'm a fan of KOTOR, Morrowind, NWN, etc. The FPS stuff reminds me too much of the run-jump-twitch reflex stuff from Arcades and Consoles.
I need help on cheap, effective upgrades that will take me gaming through the next couple of years.

System summary:
Computer:
Operating System Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
OS Service Pack Service Pack 2
DirectX 4.09.00.0904 (DirectX 9.0c)
Click to expand...
If there was no compelling reason to use XP, I would not have suggested using it, because it is a tremendous hog for all kinds of system resources.
Motherboard:
CPU Type AMD Athlon XP, 1281 MHz, 100 FSB
Motherboard MSI KT4V (MS-6712) (6 PCI, 1 AGP(4))
Chipset VIA VT8377 Apollo KT400
System Memory 256 MB (PC2700 DDR SDRAM)
BIOS Type AMI (09/27/02)
Click to expand...
I have a Via KT-133A, and three NF2-based Socket A (AMD XP) PC's. I built all three of the NF2 machines in the past year or so. The one with an XP-3000 is the main gaming box, but I can play almost anything on the one with an XP 2600 in it. I use the third of the home builts as a general utility and testing machine. It has an XP-M 2400 running at XP 3200 speed in it. Nothing I've done with these was at MSRP, at least nothing that represents a major investment.

I *do* have no less than 384 MB's in any but one PC (I didn't mention it yet, being a purpose- built Smoothwall Firewall box to use with DSL when/ if the cost is budgetable vs. dial-up). Both RAM and hard drive storage are presently at all time low costs per MB.

eBay has been my friend. When I had a lot of time to kill, I was setting alarms to put in sniped low bids at the last second on a lot of stuff going for low bids because of bad photos, bad descriptions, misspellings, odd times of auction ending, etc. I'd say I've spent half of what a modern PC would cost, and have close to enough parts for a newer (A64/ 3000) computer right now. I'm not saying you can do it on your income, and for all I know, you may have some major dexterity disability. I have enough arthritis in my spine, and in my hands that I don't spend particularly long periods bent over a work bench, or using hand tools, rationing out my time to avoid physical problems.
Display:
Video Adapter RADEON 7200 SERIES (64 MB)
3D Accelerator ATI Rage 6 (R100)
Click to expand...
That VGA card is really a slug compared to the rest of your system! [/quote]
Multimedia: Audio Adapter Creative SB Live!
Storage:
IDE Controller VIA Bus Master IDE Controller
Floppy Drive Floppy disk drive
Disk Drive WDC WD400BB-00DEA0 (37 GB, IDE)
Optical Drive _NEC NR-7800B (16x/10x/40x CD-RW)
Optical Drive ASUS CD-S400 (40x CD-ROM)
Input:
Keyboard Standard 101/102-Key
Mouse HID-compliant mouse
Network:
Network Adap 2Wire Wireless USB adapter
Modem SupraMAX 56i
Peripherals:USB (4)

Please help me with recommendations for Memory, Processor, and Video Card upgrades. Please keep price/performance in mind. Thanks
[/quote]

You have three main bottle necks: XP is an unholy burden on old systems, that Radeon card is a big problem, and you need RAM. The RAM may help with XP as well. You can get it all from eBay or one or another Overstock/ Surplus outlet. I'd say try the AT classifieds, except that the search function at AT has been broken ever since I arrived here a year and a half ago. Since you don't like anything that puts a "speed" burden on the VGA, you can get by with a Radeon 9600 or the full 128 Bit Geforce 6200, the first of which is readily found for about $50. Just avoid an "SE" of any sort, and also the 64 Bit versions of the two cards. The 6200 is currently overpriced when you can find it (I don't think you want to waste any hard-pinched money on a "TC" version of the 6200).

I think that the X300 is also overpriced compared to the 9600, but it's supposed to have the same GPU! If there is a 128 Bit version of the Radeon 9550, it may also suit you, and is generally budget priced. I haven't named any nVidia cards older than the 6200 because of Dx9. I happen to have chosen to use an FX 5900 and a Radeon 9700 Pro in the game PC in this room, and the gaming plus DVR machine in the bedroom, because I occasionally run a Flight Simulator, and also a couple of Flying Combat games.

I don't think you need anything fast. And you might not want to gamble on the 90% Dx9 functionality of an FX 5700.

Of all of the XP type CPU's I've handled, the XP-M offered the largest ratio of performance versus cost. I think I got it for about $45. The XP 3000 was about $75, I think. At present, I can't offer any numbers for any RAM purchases. The only mistakes that I really regretted were for some PC-100 SDRAM that was higher density than I wanted, and a GF3 Ti-500 that was DOA from a bad eBay seller (I was out $19 including shipping).


:beer:
 
i still don't know what your budget is from reading all the posts but here's what i have to say.

if you have windows2000, downgrade your Operating System to Windows 2000 because XP requires more RAM. upgrade your graphic card to a 9600XT (you can find these as low as $50 or less in the FS/FT forum on Anandtech). then buy another 256mb stick of RAM (512mb preferred). this should cost around $70-85 (depending on if you buy a 256mb stick of ram or 512mb stick) if you search enough. i'm not sure how much CPU prices are but i'm pretty sure that your RAM and VGA card were bottlenecking you the most so i would simply do the 2 purchases i suggested first and wait another 6 months to a year for your cpu upgrade. i'm sure more people will be selling their CPUs and you can possibly even upgrade to a 754 or 939 socket motherboard after that.

hope my advice helps you 🙂
 
Originally posted by: Malladine
Depending on whether or not you can handle running your games at 800x600 or *gasp* 640x480, you might struggle squeezing 2 years out of a radeon 9800 pro or 6600gt. Seek more opinions on this though.
Click to expand...

i still have a 9700pro and have no issues running 1024x768 on FEAR,HL2, WoW and any other game i've tried. and since he is talking playing RPGs and MMORPG, they are not usually on the bleeding edge of gfx tech.

i'd recommed another 512mb($40) to compliment your current 256 and a 9700 or 9800pro($50-70) for a total that should be about $100. if you wanted to spend alittle more($40-50) i'd definately go with a better processor.
 
Kiwi:
Your reply was very thorough. I was a Software Engineer / Consultant for 30 yrs on mainframe and mini-computer systems. Including running my programs on the first lunar orbit in 1966 at NASA and being a systems programmer on a Xerox SDS Sigma 7, but I didn't understand much of what you said. I will have to do much research to catch up. I was very sick for several years including 4 major operations. The Shock and Medication cost me alot of my reasoning power that made me a good Syst Anal. One of the links above pointed me to a guy selling an Athlon 2500+, 512 MB of PC2700 mem, and a Radeon 9600XT. 165 other people are trying to buy bits and pieces of it also. My chances are slim, but there is other stuff there too. If you have the chance and could give the 'For Dummies' version of your post I would appreciate. BTW, I frequent eBay some and would be very interested to know a place I could read up on the bidder bots and such.
 
K Rocket, You have got to realize that my consciously editing for a lowered common denominator is likely to make the text end up pretty stilted, right?

Originally posted by: Kiwi
... play a lot of games, have a computer several years old that is failing to pass specs on some new games (Fable and Guild Wars). I do not play first person shooters. I am venturing to on-line games for first time although I rarely play anything but RPG's.
Click to expand...
I'm a fan of KOTOR, Morrowind, NWN, etc. Those are my CRPG's. I DO NOT do MMO's, any kind. The FPS stuff reminds me too much of the run-jump-twitch reflex stuff from Arcades and Consoles.
Operating System Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
OS Service Pack Service Pack 2
DirectX 4.09.00.0904 (DirectX 9.0c)
Click to expand...
If there was no compelling reason to use XP, I would not have suggested using it, because it is a tremendous hog for all kinds of system resources. If you can possibly get rid of XP until you have a stronger PC, it would help you with the games.

You listed your PC's motherboard and chip set.

I have a Via KT-133A based PC, and three NF2-based Socket A (AMD XP) PC's (nVidia nForce Two). I built all three of the NF2 machines in the past year or so. The one with an XP-3000 is the main gaming box, but I can play almost anything on the one with an XP 2600 in it. I use the third of the home builts as a general utility and testing machine. It has an XP-M 2400 running at XP 3200 speed in it. Nothing I've done with these was at MSRP (Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price), at least nothing that represents a major investment.

I *do* have no less than 384 MB's in any but one PC (I didn't mention it yet, being a purpose- built Smoothwall Firewall box to use with DSL when/ if the cost is budgetable vs. dial-up). Smoothwall is based on the Linux OS. A Firewall is a serious need for a LAN with an Internet connection. Both RAM and hard drive storage are presently at all time low costs per MB.

eBay has been my friend. When I had a lot of time to kill, I was setting alarms to put in sniped low bids at the last second on a lot of stuff going for low bids because of bad photos, bad descriptions, misspellings, odd times of auction ending, etc. I'd say I've spent half of what a modern PC would cost, and have close to enough parts for a newer (A64/ 3000) computer right now {the follow-on CPU from AMD after your XP processor is the A64}. I'm not saying you can do it on your income, and for all I know, you may have some major dexterity disability. I have enough arthritis in my spine, and in my hands that I don't spend particularly long periods bent over a work bench, or using hand tools, rationing out my time to avoid physical problems.

You listed your video card.

That VGA card is really a slug compared to the rest of your system!

You have three main bottle necks: XP is an unholy burden on old systems, that Radeon card is a big problem, and you need RAM. The RAM may help with XP as well. You can get it all from eBay or one or another Overstock/ Surplus outlet. I'd say try the AT classifieds, except that the search function at AT has been broken ever since I arrived here a year and a half ago. Since you don't like anything that puts a "speed" burden on the VGA, you can get by with a Radeon 9600 or the full 128 Bit Geforce 6200, the first of which is readily found for about $50 (the video RAM has its own digital "bandwidth" measured in "Bits", and 128 Bits is better for gaming than 64 Bits). Just avoid an "SE" of any sort, and also the 64 Bit versions of the two cards. The 6200 is currently overpriced when you can find it (I don't think you want to waste any hard-pinched money on a "TC" version of the 6200).

I think that the X300 is also overpriced compared to the 9600, but it's supposed to have the same GPU! If there is a 128 Bit version of the Radeon 9550, it may also suit you, and is generally budget priced. I haven't named any nVidia cards older than the 6200 because of Dx9. I happen to have chosen to use an FX 5900 and a Radeon 9700 Pro in the game PC in this room, and the gaming plus DVR machine in the bedroom, because I occasionally run a Flight Simulator, and also a couple of Flying Combat games.

I don't think you need anything fast. And you might not want to gamble on the 90% Dx9 functionality of an FX 5700.

Of all of the XP type CPU's I've handled, the XP-M offered the largest ratio of performance versus cost. I think I got it for about $45. The XP 3000 was about $75, I think. At present, I can't offer any numbers for any RAM purchases. The only mistakes that I really regretted were for some PC-100 SDRAM that was higher density than I wanted, and a GF3 Ti-500 that was DOA from a bad eBay seller (I was out $19 including shipping).
Click to expand...

My edits are in italics.

Is that too totally unreadable now?


🙁
 
Kiwi: I am sorry you feel like you had to 'dumb down' your posting. I am close to making a deal with a guy in FS/FT for a Barton 2500+, the HS & F, the MOBO it is in now, a 9600XT & 512MB of PC2700 ram. This should straighten out my problem for the near future. The RPG games that I play are not bleeding edge 'FPS' so usually they follow the tech by several years to keep everyone involved.

Thanks for your time and thank you for trying, I did understand your summary BTW. I even built a Celeron based system about 5-6 years ago, but I forgot alot about how it went together.
 
kRocket - just read around here and you will get up-to-speed pretty quick, especially considering your background. the vast majority of the people here are pretty cool, sprinkled with the occasional a$$hole, such is life.

unfortunately do to injuries i have sustained i too take quite a bit of pretty heavy pain and muscle relaxing medications and have for years, with that lovely side effect of memory loss. but, imo, the best way to get it back is to exercise it, which would be re-learning old stuff or learning new stuff. i know you know this as you are an educated man, but just a little reminder 😀

welcome to the forums 😉
 
Bob:

Thanks for the vote of confdence. Apparently you can appreciate my situation better than most. Actually that Celeron system I built was when they first came out and that might have been around Win95. When I did it I researched the system I was putting together on Anandtech and a German guy, I think his name was Peter. At the time I was doing Focus, a 4th generation mainframe database, for Enron. Later I went back to work for EDS/Continental Airlines, but I got stuck in mainframes again and was never schooled in PC's except what I learned on my own. Haven't done much learning on PC's in the last 5 years and as you know that is a life time in the PC tech world.

Anyway thanks for understanding.
 
Originally posted by: kRocket
Bob:

Thanks for the vote of confdence. Apparently you can appreciate my situation better than most. Actually that Celeron system I built was when they first came out and that might have been around Win95. When I did it I researched the system I was putting together on Anandtech and a German guy, I think his name was Peter. At the time I was doing Focus, a 4th generation mainframe database, for Enron. Later I went back to work for EDS/Continental Airlines, but I got stuck in mainframes again and was never schooled in PC's except what I learned on my own. Haven't done much learning on PC's in the last 5 years and as you know that is a life time in the PC tech world.

Anyway thanks for understanding.
Click to expand...

anytime. the same stuff is still around, just different speeds and different form factors. a few new standards (if you want to call them that) like sata(serial ata), usb/usb2, 1394(firewire), pci-e(pci express) and different cpu sockets and chipsets, but still the same ol' stuff.

personally i would just go to newegg, look around at the items just for sh!ts and giggles, then use this forum or google if you aren't sure what the stuff is, it will come back pretty quick and any new stuff is pretty easy.

gone are the days of needing to set jumpers on a expansion card for a certain irq 😀

as far a buying from the fs/ft forum, definately keep an eye on this thread, which is at the top of the fs/ft forum - the trader's to avoid list.

also Heatware is a feedback system that is used quite often for feedback within the different forum communities, you may want to sign up and start building your heat.

have a good day
bob
 
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