Old guy building NEW Gaming computer.

[zzglenn]

First time poster... so hello! Forgive me for the winded post just a have a bunch of questions and not really sure where to look.

Background Information:

I am a married poor guy with one kid, and another one on the way. My hobby happens to be PC gaming, and I stay very current with the games. I play all games FPS, RTS, RPG, MMO, Puzzle, Fighting, Racing, doesn't really matter I just enjoy good gaming. I do a some online gaming and LANning also (I enjoy beating on the overconfident 15 year olds).

With that being said the time I have to game is very limited so I want to get the most out of the games I play. I have always built my own systems to maximize quality parts and price. Plus it really just becomes "your" system when you build it yourself. The last time I built a system was about 3-4 years ago with some upgrading occurring every so often. My current spec is listed below...

Intel P4 3.0ghz
Asus P4C800
1gig Kingston Ram
Nvidia 7900 GT AGP
Antec PS 600W
2 80 gig Segate HD is Raid 0
22 inch Samsung LCD
Logitech Keyboard and Mouse

It so happens that I have a window of opportunity to build a new system for gaming (must be some eclipse happening or something). I am going to keep the LCD, keyboard, and mouse. I will be selling the box to a friend for internet browsing.

Questions:

Software and Budget:
1) I am price sensitive at around $1000 bucks.
2) Current games killing my PC right now TF2, SupCom2, Bioshock, and Crysis.
3) Running XP do I need to go for Vista and which version (32bit 64bit would like to have all the options that XP pro came with)?
4) I would like the ability to upgrade components for the next few years.

Hardware:
1) CPU... Leaning towards Intel I don't know which way to go quad or duo
3) I am partial to Asus, and Abit boards. I have had friends with Gigabyte boards that ran well too. No idea what to pick for chipsets i680, P35, x38
4) Ram.. DDR2 2 gig ram probably Crucial, or Corsair?
5) Not much on OCing, but will tinker around if I can get a big benefit from it.
6) Video card 8800GT not sure on SLI. I am thinking probably not?
7) HDs X2 probably Seagate in Raid 0 probably the 320gig or 500gig area?
8) No clue on Case?
9) No clue on PS?
10) No clue on Cooling?

Possible Setup:
Here is something I just threw together real quick.

INTEL Core 2 Duo E6850 3GHz FSB1333MHz 4M $277
Asus Striker Extreme nForce 680i SLI Socket 775 1333MHz DDR2-800 ATX Motherboard $300
PNY GeForce 8800GT 512MB PCI-e 2.0 HDCP $250
CRUCIAL TECHNOLOGY BL2KIT12864AA1065 Ballistix 2GB PC2-8500 (DDR2-1066) DDR2 Mem $100
SEAGATE ST3320620SV 320GB SATA 7200 RPM 16MB Hard Drive $100 x 2=$200
No idea on case $100
No idea on PS $100
No idea on cooling $50

Total = $1377

As you can see this is over budget and I would like to get it lower if I could. I have to buy a computer in the next 2 months, or I may lose my opportunity too. So I am reaching out to my fellow builders for advice. I want a high end upgradeable system on a budget. Impossible? Any thoughts? Go buy an Xbox360 right

 

[DSF]

This is what I posted in a similar thread a week or so ago:

Originally posted by: DSF
I'd do something more like this:

CPU:
Intel Core 2 Duo E6550 ($175)
This should be plenty of processor until the end of 2008. If he's willing to overclock (or if you're willing to do it for him) he can almost certainly shoot even lower on the CPU. The stock heatsink should be fine for his purposes, but spending a little more dough for a performance cooler is an option too.

Motherboard:
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L LGA775 Motherboard ($100)
If he needs high-end features like integrated Wi-fi in his motherboard then this won't be the right choice, but it's an excellent value motherboard. No onboard RAID capabilities, but my recommended build only has one hard drive anyway. If he wants RAID, he can step up to Gigabyte's GA-P35-DS3R for only $30 or so more.

RAM:
2x1GB Crucial Ballistix DDR2-800 ($50)
or
G.SKILL 4GB(2 x 2GB) DDR2-800 ($150)
RAM is cheap right now, and some people would say to just go ahead and grab 2x2GBs. It might not be bad advice, and he could certainly reuse it when he rebuilds/upgrades a year or so down the road.

Video Card:
nVIDIA 8800GT PCI-e 2.0 512MB Video Card ($270)
Any manufacturer is fine, whatever he can get his hands on. It might not be a bad idea to wait a few weeks though - ATi has new cards coming soon which are supposed to be slightly less powerful than the 8800GT but at a significantly reduced price.

Case:
Coolermaster Centurion 5 ($50)
Computer case is one of those things that can boil down to personal preference more than anything else, but if he's on a tight budget this one is generally recommended as a good value. Watch for sharp rebates on more expensive cases though.

Power Supply:
Corsair CMPSU-450VX 450 Watt Power Supply ($65)
Corsair's new power supply line comes highly recommended by just about everyone. This one should have plenty of power for a mid-range gaming computer.

Hard Drive:
SAMSUNG SpinPoint T Series HD501LJ 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive ($120)
500GB is right about the sweet spot at the present time for $/GB. If he wants to save some money and doesn't need the capacity, he can go a little lower here. Generally speaking though, a larger drive will give him better performance due to higher data density. I picked the Samsung here, but any 500GB drive from a major manufacturer should be good, and shopping around might give you a better deal than $120.

Optical Drive:
LITE-ON Black CD/DVD Burner ($31)
I went without LightScribe here, but you can get LightScribe capabilities for only a few dollars more. Note that both the HDD and DVD drive are OEM, which means they won't have SATA cables included. However, your motherboard will come with a couple. If you want the retail boxed version of either, it will cost a little bit extra.

That's pretty much everything you need. Using the 2x1 GB RAM choice, not counting shipping, and with no operating system, I'm at about $870. I used newegg to show you the parts for simplicity's sake, but shopping around will give you a better price on some of them.

If you don't need an OS, there are a few things you might do with the extra $100 headroom, in no particular order:
-Dedicated sound card
-2nd optical drive or hard drive
-Upgrade the case
-Buy a better CPU heatsink/better case fans
-Upgrade to a PSU with modular cables like the Corsair 520HX
-Go with 4GB RAM
-Put it in the bank

In short, if you want to quickly shave some money, here's what I'd do to your build:

-Go with a slower CPU. You don't need a 3Ghz Core2 Duo for gaming. Most games are more dependent on the GPU than the CPU.
-Don't bother with SLI on the motherboard. This will save you at least $100 on the motherboard, and SLI isn't a bang-for-the-buck option, which is what you're after.
-Don't bother with PC8500 RAM if you're not planning on a serious overclock. PC6400 is plenty, and a good 2GB kit can be had for half the price of the RAM you chose.

 

[zzglenn]

Thanks so much. This is exactly the type of write ups I was looking for.

CPU: Should I consider going Quad or Stay Duo?

MB: Gigabyte's GA-P35-DS3R (would like to raid) is that basically the board to go for? I see a lot a posts for Abit IP35 is that a decent board to look at? Should I not consider the i680 or x38 chipsets? Is there something else worth waiting for next month?

RAM: Is 4gigs the way to go with XP or do I need Vista

Video: Sounds good

Case: So really any case will do then? I won't need additonal cooling?

PSU: Is 500W about the sweet spot for a gaming system?

HD: Sounds good. Are there issues with raiding HDs that big in 0

Optical Drive: Sounds good

CPU Cooling: Do I need anything?


I guess my biggest questions right now are the CPU and MB. Seems like so many options. Is there one tried and true gaming configuration thats going to last awhile?

 

[Zap]

Welcome to the forums, zzglenn!

DSF's suggestions are spot on.

There is absolutely ZERO need for a $300 motherboard. If you want one, why don't you buy a $100 motherboard, mail me $200, I'll tell you your motherboard is worth $300 and we're both happy. Expensive motherboards for people on a budget is like "needing" to buy a new $60000 car when in reality a $20000 car is a better fit for your income level. Good choices are low end P35 chipset boards from Gigabyte and Universal abit (the "new" name of Abit).

Two hard drives... RAID? Don't do it, man. Get a single 500GB Seagate 7200.11 drive for $125 shipped. The true 7200.11 series are only available in 500GB and up sizes and have the highest platter densities (for highest transfer rates) plus 32MB cache. It will probably outperform the two 320GB drives in RAID 0 on a normal basis (not counting special benchmarks measuring huge STR).

RAM... like DSF said get 2GB DDR2-800 unless you're going for insane overclocks. Normal pricing is getting close to $50 and I've seen $35 after rebates. That extra $50 will give you better performance added to the video card budget.

CPU... go with the E6550 or E6750... or even as low as the E4500. Price this out LAST after everything else. If you have a $1000 budget, stop dreaming of toeing the line!

8800GT $270-320... prices keep creeping up. Hopefully they'll drop back to $250 by the time you buy, otherwise consider a Radeon HD 3870 at around $220. Sure it won't be as fast, but you'll be pretty darn close for just over 2/3 the price.

Case... um, right now you can get a Cooler Master Centurion 5 from Newegg for $30 after rebate with free shipping. These deals come and go. That case is pretty darn good for the price. Now, I like "good" cases as much as the next person, but if you're on a budget, you have to consider the fact that a $50 case and a $200 case does the exact same thing... hold your parts together.

Cooling... use the fan that comes with the case and use the retail box CPU heatsink. Unless major overclocking, better stuff is not "needed."

PSU... this is where you don't want to skimp. However, you don't "need" an uber huge unit either. Look for rebate deals such as the current Antec EarthWatts EA430 at Newegg for $40 after rebate with free shipping. If you are feeling rather wealthy, go for a Corsair 450VX or 550VX for $70-100.

Here's a sample configuration (shipping and rebates included):

Abit IP-35E motherboard $95
Core 2 Duo E6750 $195
2GB DDR2-80 $55
8800GT video card $280
Cooler Master Centurion 5 $30
Antec EA430 $40
Seagate 500GB 7200.11 $125
random SATA DVDRW drive $35

Total $855 shipped after rebate (or around $930 without the special rebates and free shipping deals).

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: zzglenn
CPU: Should I consider going Quad or Stay Duo?

Dual core is perfectly fine and fits your budget.

Originally posted by: zzglenn
MB: Gigabyte's GA-P35-DS3R (would like to raid) is that basically the board to go for? I see a lot a posts for Abit IP35 is that a decent board to look at? Should I not consider the i680 or x38 chipsets? Is there something else worth waiting for next month?

680i and x38 are too expensive for your budget. Soon there will be the x48 chipset, which is another way to pry money away from people with too much of it (money) and too little sense. I'd say don't bother with RAID and you can get by with a cheaper board.

Originally posted by: zzglenn
RAM: Is 4gigs the way to go with XP or do I need Vista

To adequately use all 4GB of RAM, you need 64 bit versions of either XP or Vista.

Originally posted by: zzglenn
Case: So really any case will do then? I won't need additonal cooling?

Sure, any case will work as long as it holds your parts together, has enough ventilation and doesn't just fall apart. For cooling look for 120mm exhaust fans and unrestrictive grills. I've made one suggestion above, feel free to ask for others.

Originally posted by: zzglenn
PSU: Is 500W about the sweet spot for a gaming system?

That amount of wattage is perfectly fine for a single GPU solution. The better questions are how many amperes of +12v power does a PSU put out and how good is the quality. Antec EarthWatts are good at the low end if you find a "deal" on them. Corsair is good. Enhance is good.

Originally posted by: zzglenn
HD: Sounds good. Are there issues with raiding HDs that big in 0

No issues besides paying extra for imaginary performance. Okay, okay, RAID 0 does increase performance. However, that increase is very little and mostly can be measured but not "felt." The big exception is when reading or writing huge files such as for video editing. If that's not the primary use of the system, then use a single fast drive such as what I recommended above.

Originally posted by: zzglenn
CPU Cooling: Do I need anything?

Yes, the cooler that comes with the retail box CPU, unless you're going for some major overclocking.

Originally posted by: zzglenn
I guess my biggest questions right now are the CPU and MB. Seems like so many options. Is there one tried and true gaming configuration thats going to last awhile?

Yes, a modern dual core processor (anything socket AM2, anything called Core 2 Duo or Pentium Dual Core) and a motherboard with PCI-E 16x.

Notice anything? I've emphasized your budget a few times. You state a $1000 limit, but keep mentioning expensive hardware that will quickly put you way over that stated budget. Why do you do that? Either you have a $1000 limit or you don't.

What I'm trying guide you towards is the high spot before the "point of diminishing returns." Let's put it this way... let's say you want a "fast" car. At $15000 you can only get an econobox so that's not too fast. At $30000 you can get one of the fast ricer cars such as a Subaru WRX STI or a Mitsu Lancer Evo. At $60000 you can get a Corvette, Viper or Shelby Cobra GT500. At $120000 and above you can get supercars. Where's the point of diminishing returns for performance? That would be somewhere between $30000 and $60000. Supercars are hardly faster than these super-domestics at $60000, while the hot ricers at $30000 can almost keep up with the super-domestics.

 

[MarcVenice]

His 1000$ should easily accomodate a very very nice gaming rig. Most important things have been said. If you're contemplating 2 or 4gb of ram, go with 2gb, its enough for games. You can add another 2gb later down the road. I haven't seen you mention overclocking, you could save some money by buying an e4400 or other 'cheaper' PSU and overclock with a decent aftermarket HSF. Last but not least, 450-500w is the least you should buy, Antec EW 430 would be cutting a tad to low if you ask me. Corsair 450vx or Antec EW 500w would be better. With some luck corsair 520hx can be had for 80$ too.

 

[zzglenn]

First off thank you for taking the time to reply. You probably answer these questions 10,000 times a day. I am defenitly taking notes here.

Here is the thing that is getting to me, and the part I am having the hardest time grasping. In the past in order to get something of decent quailty and speed the items you had to buy were expensive. When you got them they made a HUGE difference. I remember chugging along with my 200mzh Intel with 64mb of ram and a 2mb viper card. Then they introduced the 3dfx voodoo addon cards. When you slapped that baby in there was a difference (so I am thinking is SLI just like this). Those cards of course were like $300 bucks, but they made a huge difference. Fastforward a few years now we have boards that only take certain memory and FSB that are way faster than ever before. Who is this AMD. Now we need this specail memory to take advantage of all this new speed (SD to DDR Ram).

Today it seems like there are many choices with all the same results. Back then it was obvious you bought AMD or Intel with this chipset. You always bought Nvidia or ATI at this level. Forgive my ingnorance I am no expert in any of this. I totally understand your anaology with the cars. I guess my problem is I don't know what a $60,000 car has under the hood to compare with. I defiently don't want to spend extra for dimishening returns, and I guess the reason I was "toeing" my budget was because I was having a hard time comparing between the items being presented. I never really thought "gaming PCs" could become budget freindly. I have always had to be very careful on what I picked in order to get the most out of my PC.

So instinctivly I have always gone with highest CPU speed I could get, high quailty motherboards with the fastest FSB, memory that would match the FSB, one or two levels below the top video card series, and fast RPM hard drives in RAID 0 formation. Another factor in this calculation is a possible OS change at an early stage. Vista isn't any where close to being ok, but I don't want to fall behind that technology either.

Once again thank you for your assitance. I will do some more research and put together something and post it within the next few days.

 

[bamacre]

ANTEC Sonata III Mini Case Retail w/ 500W Earthwatts
$120.00 + Free ship
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/...p?ProductCode=10005323

ABIT IP35-E LGA 775
$90.00 + ship
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813127031

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600
$277.00 + Free ship
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/....jsp?ProductCode=80864

Corsair TWIN2X2048-5400C4 2GB DDR2-675
$50.00 + Free ship
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/...p?ProductCode=85016-16

Maxtor 500GB Serial ATA/300 16MB Buffer (re-badged Seagate 7200.10)
$100.00 + ship
http://shop1.outpost.com/product/4551377

PHILIPS SATA DVDRW
$32.00 + Free ship
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16827248008

EVGA 512-P3-N802-A1 Geforce 8800 GT SuperClocked
$300.00 + Free ship
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/...p?ProductCode=10007181

Total Price $969.00

If you want to go over budget a bit and get a sound card rather than use integ audio...

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic
$70 + ship
http://shop2.outpost.com/product/5017775