Old cars and new world order

[YuliApp]

So after some miserable experience with new cars i decided to stick with old ones for rest of my life

Well in the end it is more environmentally friendly, right?

As of now, historical cars have kind of a free pass here in Germany, way simpler life then with newer cars (emissions, inspections, insurance, etc).

So what will government do if people refuse to upgrade to all new fuzz buzz electric expensive short life cars?

How long do you think would be petrol at tank stations available?

 

[Yuriman]

Eventually they're all going to turn to rust. Except mine. It's aluminum, and I'll be dropping a new engine or electric motor in it when something major mechanically gives out.

But yeah, the impact of fixing an old car is usually* a lot less than replacing the car.

 

[C1]

OP has become too socialized.

Dont change the car, .......... your supposed to change the government !

The government isnt supposed to "own" you like your some kind of "pet" or "slave".

The fact that people are being sociologically & psychologically manipulated is evident by the fact that so many seem to be running around screaming about racism and past history regarding slavery all the while ignoring that they are responding/functioning as a "pet slave" of some bureaucratic overlord system.

 

[herm0016]

that escalated quickly....


Electrics should last just as long or longer than ICE cars, as long as the batteries don't suffer too much degradation.

 

[Yuriman]

that escalated quickly....


Electrics should last just as long or longer than ICE cars, as long as the batteries don't suffer too much degradation.

Haha, yeah. The Volt is a great example, there are Volts with 400,000 miles out in the wild, with batteries that still show as having greater than 90% of their factory capacity left. If anything, they're longer-lasting and more reliable than ICEs.

The only problem is the complex crap manufacturers insist on plastering all over our dashboards. I really just want a volume knob, a couple of buttons for fans and lights, and a lever for turn signals. Everything else is going to feel dated long before the car is worn out.

 

[YuliApp]

what the volt be in 10 years, or 20.

 

[Yuriman]

Well at this point some are 8 years old and the batteries are still showing up as 90%+. My understanding is that degradation is not linear - most of it happens earlier rather than later - but others can correct me if I'm wrong. Very few engines last 400,000 miles, so in terms of wear-durability they already far outstrip ICEs.

 

[YuliApp]

that was not my question actually. As the technology goes, they might be more practical, reliable, whatever, although my experience was exactly opposite.
Question was, how long will government let us "keep" old good ICE cars...
How long you expect that gas fuel stations will supply gas suitable for old cars.

 

[repoman0]

I'm going to guess that gasoline will become too expensive to be practical before it is unavailable.

I like my old cars too and don't intend to buy another until I can get a reasonably priced electric with good range and fast recharge time ... at which point I'll consider reluctantly giving up my good old 6 speed manual + inline 6.

 

[YuliApp]

i do not think it will ever be too expensive, as even now the price is (at least here it is now more or less 80% tax) more like availability.

but bigger issue is, here in EU it more leads to complete ban on such cars.

 

[lxskllr]

I think you're underestimating the potential price of petrol. It's as cheap as it is because everyone uses it. When it gets to the point it's just for niche use, prices will skyrocket. As to EU politics... I couldn't say. Freedom doesn't seem to be their primary goal.

What I think would be an interesting project is retrofitting a classic car to be all electric, or some kind of hybrid. You can make it as simple or complex as you like as long as it meets safety standards from when it was originally produced(per US law).

 

[YuliApp]

hm interesting sure, but for me the ICE is about 80% of why old cars are so awesome. I drive tesla fairly often, it is awesome car, but cannot ever be compared with my darling vette.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Based on demographic information, the number and variety of existing vehicles registered, sold, etc., if Germany made gas-burning cars illegal today it would still be 2030 or so before they could start closing gas stations without starting riots.

 

[YuliApp]

i thought too, then seen on own eyes how old proud germans sold their diesel daimlers with 20 years life left only because they made them year to year irrelevant after introducing environment stickers.
You would expect riot, but, yea, bread and games.

 

[mindless1]

that escalated quickly....


Electrics should last just as long or longer than ICE cars, as long as the batteries don't suffer too much degradation.

Eventually yes, but I have my doubts until a few more years of refinements happen.

Yes there are fairly new (under 15 years old) electric cars with high mileage. This is because they were driven a lot of miles already but their young age makes them repair worthy. The same is true for ICE vehicles, if you wear out an engine on something 8 years old, it "can" be cost effective to put a new or rebuilt engine in and still end up with a low cost of ownership.

In my case, I don't drive many miles a year so rust is going to cause end of life at about the same time.

As far as the general public goes, many are going to buy new(er) cars simply because it becomes too expensive to pay a shop to repair them, they can't DIY. For example on my oldest vehicle, recently I DIY repaired the hard & soft brake lines, plugs and wires, some suspension parts and soon ball joints.

The parts and especially labor savings in doing these myself, exceed the bluebook value of the vehicle. Most people would not have paid a shop more than their vehicle is worth to repair it.

On the other hand, this also works against newer vehicles. My oldest, a water pump DIY costs $40. My newest, I wouldn't attempt to DIY so around $1300. Oldest, DIY steering rack & hoses a little under $200. Newest, DIY installed electric steering rack is $650. I don't even want to think about what the LCD dash and infocenter will cost to replace some day, especially since the only likely source will be the OEM part, or of course a junkyard but some things I'd rather get new than used, especially if they tend to have a finite lifespan and there's no remanufacturer market.

 

[ponyo]

I see the push towards electric but I just don't see myself owning one anytime soon. Maybe when electrics are cheaper than gas vehicles. I like older gas vehicles because you can work on them and don't need all the specialized modern dealer equipment.

 

[YuliApp]

that's true. also reason why new cars fall down so fast on the value. As repairing those 3+ year old cars stuffed with features where only possible repair is OEM.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

i thought too, then seen on own eyes how old proud germans sold their diesel daimlers with 20 years life left only because they made them year to year irrelevant after introducing environment stickers.
You would expect riot, but, yea, bread and games.

Presumably there were people interested in buying those cars, or they could afford to scrap them in order to get a lower-emission vehicle that allowed them to drive in the areas they wanted/needed to. If the market for those vehicles dries up, or if people can't afford to replace their cars, then it's a problem.

I also don't get the impression that germans are often too "proud" to be practical.

 

[HarryLui]

How long do you think would be petrol at tank stations available?

Petrol will always be available. Can you afford it, that's another question.

 

[YuliApp]

Presumably there were people interested in buying those cars, or they could afford to scrap them in order to get a lower-emission vehicle that allowed them to drive in the areas they wanted/needed to. If the market for those vehicles dries up, or if people can't afford to replace their cars, then it's a problem.

I also don't get the impression that germans are often too "proud" to be practical.

there was a riot, just modern riot. In Biergarten. There were few companies who even bankrupt because of that (cannot replace car fleet of relatively new diesel cars).

They might have been proud (or too proud in the past), but now, honestly most of them are walking with head down and do what they have to do. Even vote fourth times Merkel in the office while complaining that Putin is too long at power...

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Even vote fourth times Merkel in the office while complaining that Putin is too long at power...

Unless Germany invaded the Ukraine recently, that's not really comparing apples to apples.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

Question was, how long will government let us "keep" old good ICE cars...
How long you expect that gas fuel stations will supply gas suitable for old cars.

Well past your current life expectancy.

A few countries and california are rumored to be targeting 2040 as a ban date for ICE production. Taken with a huge grain of salt lets use that number as an anchor. The current crop of cars on the road have average life expectancy around 10 years. At the earliest then it would be 2050 in the most "progressive" locations. I would expect exceptions for "classic" cars.

As for the rest of the world.... it will take considerably longer. There are still large portions of the global populace driving around in ancient cars. Hell, up until early 2000's you could still get a brand new factory fresh VW Beetle.