Oklahoma Frat Boys Caught Singing 'There Will Never Be A ****** In SAE'

[touchstone]

Fern's comments were considerably less harsh than statements published by FIRE, the ACLU, and various Constitutional law scholars. These experts and civil rights organizations believe that the students were not only denied their due process rights, but were illegally punished for Constitutionally protected speech. You should educate yourself before raging against other people's alleged ignorance.

and i am sure he posts comments in line with the aclu at all times, right? he is a tireless advocate for free speech under all circumstances?


i'm sure. or maybe we'd look back and see him supporting free speech when he agreed with the people he was defending. he agrees with these frat boys. he can sympathize

 

[werepossum]

Look at it this way...you mentioned parties that receive benefits or salary from the government, they are expected to be good representatives on behalf of that gift. The students also paid $$ to attend a government funded institution. All students, are, therefore representatives of the government in some third hand way.

Unless there is some sort of bi-laws that state violation of student ethics can result in expulsion, the students will likely sue.

Should we go as far to say that people seeing these same racist songs, should have their food stamps revoked? What's the difference with that then? Why should we stop at that? How about every time someone is racist or does something completely retarded, we slip the government safety net out from underneath them and say, "Good luck!"

We need to see a consistent response to this. Either speech is free and you cannot be penalized for it....or you are completely penalized for it.

That is a valid point. To me, the difference is that food stamps and the like are charity, not an earned privilege or an equal exchange of services for pay. Thus I do not expect a food stamp or welfare recipient to be held to the higher standard. Anyone rewarded with an earned privilege or employed needs to be held to a higher moral standard. I can cut some slack for those who intended their communication to be private, but this was a chartered bus with many people. Those leading the chant are exerting peer pressure on everyone there to participate or at the least, pretend to do so.

Fern's comments were considerably less harsh than statements published by FIRE, the ACLU, and various Constitutional law scholars. These experts and civil rights organizations believe that the students were not only denied their due process rights, but were illegally punished for Constitutionally protected speech. You should educate yourself before raging against other people's alleged ignorance.

Agreed, and it's a valid point. But even agreeing that you and Fern are probably on the side the courts would/will take, I disagree morally. I think it was right to expel the students involved. Some battles are worth fighting even if you know you're going to lose, and I vehemently disagree that someone singing such songs with an 'A' average and a high SAT is more worthy of attending university than someone with less impressive academic credentials but better moral character. (Or at the very least, better judgement. Probably 99% of students have cell phones capable of HD video. How then do we declare these young people are university material?)

and i am sure he posts comments in line with the aclu at all times, right? he is a tireless advocate for free speech under all circumstances?


i'm sure. or maybe we'd look back and see him supporting free speech when he agreed with the people he was defending. he agrees with these frat boys. he can sympathize

In my experience Fern has always been fair, unbiased and reasonable, and generally speaking a hell of a guy even where I vehemently disagree with him, as here. It's one thing to assert that anyone displaying this behavior needs to be punished; it's quite another to assert that anyone disagreeing is automatically racist.

 

[Victorian Gray]

whenever somebody starts out an arguments saying 'first of all, i want to say that i am not excusing racism', they are most likely excusing racism. i stopped reading after the first sentence as it is obvious what his point is. he 'doesnt agree' but he thinks they should be able to be happy racists who never bother anybody with their racist views.


the funny part about all of this is you see people come in and try to make excuses like that mod, or just outright support racism like that texas guy who i hope is trolling, and you have to wonder: 'do these fools even realize they are bigots, or do they just wander around with some kind of perpetual excuse premised before every racist thought?'

Yeah, you're supposed to read *past* the 1st sentence. Otherwise you run the risk of making a fool of yourself in your reply.

EDIT: I noticed that you then 'doubled down; re the article. Nice job of completely misrepresenting what was said.

 

[touchstone]

Yeah, you're supposed to read *past* the 1st sentence. Otherwise you run the risk of making a fool of yourself in your reply.

EDIT: I noticed that you then 'doubled down; re the article. Nice job of completely misrepresenting what was said.

what was misrepresented? i quoted directly from the article, the only person trying to excuse casual racism by misrepresenting the facts is you.



the article is written by a racists in support of other racists, ironically making it 'for racists, by racists' much like the clothing that was called fubu

 

[Texashiker]

are you a troll? i find it hard to believe somebody would openly express as despicable a sentiment as paying a bunch of bigots for their bigotry....

The students should be compensated for having their rights violated.

Those who violated the students rights should be brought to justice, put on trial and sent to prison.

Whether you or the school agree or disagree with the students is irrelevant. Speech, even hate speech, is protected.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

The students should be compensated for having their rights violated.

Those who violated the students rights should be brought to justice, put on trial and sent to prison.

Whether you or the school agree or disagree with the students is irrelevant. Speech, even hate speech, is protected.

What specific criminal law is it you believe is being violated? Be specific and show your work.

 

[Victorian Gray]

what was misrepresented? i quoted directly from the article, the only person trying to excuse casual racism by misrepresenting the facts is you.



the article is written by a racists in support of other racists, ironically making it 'for racists, by racists' much like the clothing that was called fubu

You have a serious reading comprehension issue. That article is nothing like what you portray it all.

This is not what a racist says:

"I have no sympathy for racist Oklahoma fraternity members whose racist fraternity taunt went viral resulting in their fraternity being shut down, their being kicked off campus, and their likely expulsion from school. I have zero sympathy for them and chances are you don't either."

or

"This was a positive sports story, Sooner athletes sending the right message about how they wouldn't tolerate racist comments on a college campus, a place that theoretically exists to expand knowledge and eliminate closeted thinking."

 

[Texashiker]

What specific criminal law is it you believe is being violated? Be specific and show your work.

The police officers who beat Rodney King were found guilty of violating his civil rights and sent to prison.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_King#Federal_trial_of_officers

The jury found Officer Laurence Powell and Sergeant Stacey Koon guilty, and they were subsequently sentenced to 32 months in prison, while Timothy Wind and Theodore Briseno were acquitted of all charges

A baker who refused to bake a cake for a gay couple faces a year in prison.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...e-wedding-cake-may-face-a-year-in-jail-video/

Martin says the owner faces up to a year in jail for not baking a cake for the gay coupleMartin says the owner faces up to a year in jail for not baking a cake for the gay couple

When are the school officials going to jail?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

The police officers who beat Rodney King were found guilty of violating his civil rights and sent to prison.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_King#Federal_trial_of_officers



A baker who refused to bake a cake for a gay couple faces a year in prison.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...e-wedding-cake-may-face-a-year-in-jail-video/



When are the school officials going to jail?

You have not answered my question. There is no criminal liability under federal law for a civil rights violation where no force is used. The Colorado case arose under Colorado's human rights law, which is totally inapplicable to this situation.

 

[Brainonska511]

Song traced back to a national meeting of the fraternity.

http://nyti.ms/1D7zIlQ

NORMAN, Okla. — A racist song that caused a national uproar when it was caught on video was a fixture within a fraternity chapter at the University of Oklahoma, not an anomaly, the university reported Friday, and members first learned it at a gathering of the national fraternity four years ago.

“It was learned by chapter members on a national leadership cruise sponsored by the national organization of Sigma Alpha Epsilon,” the university said in a brief report on the results of its inquiry into the episode. “Over time, the chant was formalized in the local S.A.E. chapter and was taught to pledges as part of the formal and informal pledgeship process.”

Perhaps it was not such an 'isolated incident' as the national organization was stating originally.

 

[werepossum]

Song traced back to a national meeting of the fraternity.

http://nyti.ms/1D7zIlQ

Perhaps it was not such an 'isolated incident' as the national organization was stating originally.

It was an 'isolated incident' in that they don't usually get caught on film.

I fully expect frat boys to generally be obnoxious, but some forms of obnoxicity should not be tolerated in the name of free speech. (Holy crap, spell check passed obnoxicity!)

 

[waggy]

Song traced back to a national meeting of the fraternity.

http://nyti.ms/1D7zIlQ

Perhaps it was not such an 'isolated incident' as the national organization was stating originally.

interesting.

 

[norseamd]

Well this could have some amazing fucking potential if they were to actually give due attention to the whole national fraternity.

Burn! Burn!

 

[Ns1]

Song traced back to a national meeting of the fraternity.

http://nyti.ms/1D7zIlQ

Perhaps it was not such an 'isolated incident' as the national organization was stating originally.

Read the article.


Wow that fraternity is hosed.