• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

Ok, the U.S. pulls out of everywhere.

Crimson

Banned
Oct 11, 1999
3,809
0
0
Lets say for the sake of argument, since apparently this is what most democrat/liberals want.. The U.S. pulls all its troops out of foreign countries and brings them back home. Great! We just saved billions! Free health care and education for everyone.. right? Well.. maybe not..

North Korea invades South Korea, and launches attacks against Japan, and Taiwan.. They probably won't take over Japan or Taiwan, but trade and the economies of both countries are SERIOUSLY effected. U.S. economy takes a big hit.. prices skyrocketing for products produced in Japan and Taiwan...

China backs North Korea, possibly invades Taiwan... trade with China and Taiwan possibly halted? 10's of Thousands lose jobs in U.S. since we can't get any electronics out of the Asian region.. or cheap labor for things like textiles.. massive shortages of these items cause large layoffs in the U.S.

Iraqi militants take over country.. immediately launch attacks against Israel although with other middle-eastern countries.. oil supplies from middle east skyrocket because of instability in the region.. shipping costs skyrocket throughout the world, gas for automobiles now costing $4-5/gallon in U.S.. trucking and other delivery costs skyrocket internationally and internally.. Bush tries to drill for oil in Alaska but is shot down by environmentalists who are thrilled with paying $5 for gas... shortages everywhere.

Economies of EU countries seriously effected by lack of trade with U.S... because no countries in the U.S. can afford to send anything to the EU, and vice versa.. its just too expensive.. Besides the U.S. isn't buying anything because so many people are being laid off... Germany and France up tax rates to 100%.. because thats how you prevent a depression.. you tax your way out of it..

Russia decides to sell Nukes to former eastern block countries to bolster their faltering economy, U.S. can do nothing to prevent this.. we now have 2 dozen nuclear capable countries in Europe making demands on Germany, France and the UK who have no way to stop them.. EU de-stabilized.. France surrenders.

Cuba buys Nukes from North Korea... threatens Florida..

Mexican economy falters because of lack of trade with U.S... plunges into Cival War... Latin America and South America de-stabilized.. Oil supply in even worse shape because no oil coming out of South America...

America offers free health care and education.. but since economy is so bad, they need to raise taxes in order to do it.. Inflation skyrockets, interest rates soar, and unemployment is through the roof..

Oh! Wait! Thats right, you guys want America to pull out of every country, but for none of this bad stuff to happen.. thats right.. We'll nicely ask North Korea not to invade or blow off any Nukes, The Saudi's will surely give us free oil, after all, they have all these nice new homes in Jerusalem.. they should be in a real giving mood!

Hey Europe, would you please stop killing eachother and slaughtering one another? That would be great.. thanks... I know you have all been fighting for 10,000 years, but if we just ask real nicely will you not commit genocide? Thanks!!

Hey Mexico, I know you are all living in insane poverty, but if you could get some people out to the oil fields we would really appreciate it.. I know you are being slaughtered by waring factions, but we really need some gas.. so if you don't mind, just keep the oil flowing! Thanks!

Oh, and Canada.. if you don't mind.. keep the beer flowing.. we know it costs $17 a bottle to ship it down here, but we are really thirsty.. and would like to get drunk... thanks!

Thank god we pulled out of everywhere, now all the world's problems are solved!! And to think all along the answer was to simply just mind our own business! And let the world do what they want..
 

Ferocious

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2000
4,584
1
71
Umm most true conservatives want us out everywhere too.

It's the neocons that want us everywhere.
 

da loser

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,037
0
0
i think you went overboard in your predictions for the future.

north korea invades south korea, gets beat down by south korean and japan. china does nothing, since north korea served as a barrier to us which is at home.

china invades taiwan, takes massive casaulties and infrastructure in taiwan is destroyed. electronics in america. japan militarizes and develops nukes. textiles move back to south america, possibly africa. indian/pakistan probably will continue to maintain stability in south asia, so you'd have textiles there as well. although we might have trouble with rubber.

liberia suddenly is of interst to the US :D

fundamentalists takeover iraq. shiites and kurds split off. iran invades and takesover. the peninsula is taken over by fundamentalists. all continue to supply oil to europe ;). us gets oil from russia, nigeria, canada and mexico, supply remains intact although prices go up to $35 a barrel, other sources of energy become available.

israel builds up wall and extends borders, mass exodus of palestininans. continues to earn money by selling arms to china and india. iran invades israel, whole region is nuked, no more fundamentalists :D

eu and us return to middle east and get radioactive oil.

russia would not sell nukes to east bloc countries, they're selling them back, too poor. however russia does sell tech to iran/pakistan/nk.

cuba is too poor to get nukes. castro dies, cuba and us form new relationship cuban cigars for everyone.

mexican economy increases from textile industry and semiconductor industry grows. south america flourishes as well.

healthcare leads to longer lines, although overall health does not suffer greatly. deficit grows. as generations get too old, an effort to eradicate old people becomes the norm. any nonproductive person over 65 is processed for oil. ;)
education leads to more inventions which drives down deficit.

EU refuses to kill people, and is falters. wars breakout and they nuke each other. the swiss remain impartial, but due to radioactive fallout are forced to live inside the mountains.

US/china/india become remaining superpowers. us and india become allies as well as russia/japan to contain china.
canada becomes a stronger power, but is taken over by immigrants from asia and the middle east. high oil prices allow canada to continue to offer healthcare.

doesn't look too bad. europe and the middle east are destroyed, china is contained. we get our manufacturing jobs back.











 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
71
Originally posted by: Crimson
Lets say for the sake of argument, since apparently this is what most democrat/liberals want.. The U.S. pulls all its troops out of foreign countries and brings them back home. Great! We just saved billions! Free health care and education for everyone.. right? Well.. maybe not..

North Korea invades South Korea, and launches attacks against Japan, and Taiwan.. They probably won't take over Japan or Taiwan, but trade and the economies of both countries are SERIOUSLY effected. U.S. economy takes a big hit.. prices skyrocketing for products produced in Japan and Taiwan...

China backs North Korea, possibly invades Taiwan... trade with China and Taiwan possibly halted? 10's of Thousands lose jobs in U.S. since we can't get any electronics out of the Asian region.. or cheap labor for things like textiles.. massive shortages of these items cause large layoffs in the U.S.

Iraqi militants take over country.. immediately launch attacks against Israel although with other middle-eastern countries.. oil supplies from middle east skyrocket because of instability in the region.. shipping costs skyrocket throughout the world, gas for automobiles now costing $4-5/gallon in U.S.. trucking and other delivery costs skyrocket internationally and internally.. Bush tries to drill for oil in Alaska but is shot down by environmentalists who are thrilled with paying $5 for gas... shortages everywhere.

Economies of EU countries seriously effected by lack of trade with U.S... because no countries in the U.S. can afford to send anything to the EU, and vice versa.. its just too expensive.. Besides the U.S. isn't buying anything because so many people are being laid off... Germany and France up tax rates to 100%.. because thats how you prevent a depression.. you tax your way out of it..

Everything below this line is too extreme

Russia decides to sell Nukes to former eastern block countries to bolster their faltering economy, U.S. can do nothing to prevent this.. we now have 2 dozen nuclear capable countries in Europe making demands on Germany, France and the UK who have no way to stop them.. EU de-stabilized.. France surrenders.

Cuba buys Nukes from North Korea... threatens Florida..

Mexican economy falters because of lack of trade with U.S... plunges into Cival War... Latin America and South America de-stabilized.. Oil supply in even worse shape because no oil coming out of South America...

America offers free health care and education.. but since economy is so bad, they need to raise taxes in order to do it.. Inflation skyrockets, interest rates soar, and unemployment is through the roof..

Oh! Wait! Thats right, you guys want America to pull out of every country, but for none of this bad stuff to happen.. thats right.. We'll nicely ask North Korea not to invade or blow off any Nukes, The Saudi's will surely give us free oil, after all, they have all these nice new homes in Jerusalem.. they should be in a real giving mood!

Hey Europe, would you please stop killing eachother and slaughtering one another? That would be great.. thanks... I know you have all been fighting for 10,000 years, but if we just ask real nicely will you not commit genocide? Thanks!!

Hey Mexico, I know you are all living in insane poverty, but if you could get some people out to the oil fields we would really appreciate it.. I know you are being slaughtered by waring factions, but we really need some gas.. so if you don't mind, just keep the oil flowing! Thanks!

Oh, and Canada.. if you don't mind.. keep the beer flowing.. we know it costs $17 a bottle to ship it down here, but we are really thirsty.. and would like to get drunk... thanks!

Thank god we pulled out of everywhere, now all the world's problems are solved!! And to think all along the answer was to simply just mind our own business! And let the world do what they want..
Anyway, good point. :D
 

Orsorum

Lifer
Dec 26, 2001
27,626
3
81
GuyDebord, please take your rampant hatred and unjustifiable ignorance away from this thread, you make it reek.
 

Orsorum

Lifer
Dec 26, 2001
27,626
3
81
I think the point of this whole thread was that at this point, isolationism is not a feasible policy for the United States. Most sane people would agree. Where the big disagreements begin is where we start talking about future policy.

I, for one, am a devout advocate of isolationism. While we cannot reverse our past decisions, we can make a concentrated effort to limit our interaction in other countrys' internal affairs in the future, and can make it a goal to withdraw most of our troops from foreign nations over a period of time, with a plan of reinstatement of domestic security control for each nation we pull out of.
 

AvesPKS

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2000
4,729
0
0
Originally posted by: Orsorum
I think the point of this whole thread was that at this point, isolationism is not a feasible policy for the United States. Most sane people would agree. Where the big disagreements begin is where we start talking about future policy.

I, for one, am a devout advocate of isolationism. While we cannot reverse our past decisions, we can make a concentrated effort to limit our interaction in other countrys' internal affairs in the future, and can make it a goal to withdraw most of our troops from foreign nations over a period of time, with a plan of reinstatement of domestic security control for each nation we pull out of.
I agree. I just think we need to be clear as to our reasoning behind why we are not persuing an isolationist doctrine; enlightened self-interest.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
17,234
7,373
136
I feel bad for GuyDebordHomo and his frightful case of 'diarrhea of the mouth.' No one can be that addled in the head, maybe he's just joking around??

Bravo Crimson, it's nice to hear some rational conjecture in opposition to all the uninformed BS the anti-Bush/anti-Americans love to spew. Sure they'll bitch, but when it comes to logical, helpful alternatives all we get are cricket noises. I feel sad for people so absorbed in their conspiracy theories, that they fail to realize how their own country is basically holding the world together. :(
 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,497
1
81
"Lets say for the sake of argument, since apparently this is what most democrat/liberals want."

Where did you get this from?
 

Orsorum

Lifer
Dec 26, 2001
27,626
3
81
Originally posted by: GuyDebordJudoClub
How many millions innocent human beings did your contry kill on Earth?
Your denials are as pathological as those of the germans who would not recognize the crimes of the nazis.
USA: the most lobotomized nation on Earth along with North Korea.
We all know the French are without blame with regards to the Nazis. They could have stopped them a decade before they struck. They knew of some of the plans brewing. Yep.

Name me those millions.
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,469
1
76
Originally posted by: Orsorum
GuyDebord, please take your rampant hatred and unjustifiable ignorance away from this thread, you make it reek.
Mods should give him a custom title of French Hagbard

Has he ever posted anything that was non-negative of the US?
 

MAW1082

Senior member
Jun 17, 2003
507
4
81
"Cuba buys Nukes from North Korea... threatens Florida.. "

I would think that Cuba would attempt to form some kind of army before trying to buy nuclear warheads. Cuba is most definitely a nonaggressive country, even while the US tries bring it down from the inside.
 

jjones

Lifer
Oct 9, 2001
15,430
1
0
Originally posted by: GuyDebordJudoClub
How many dozens of wars were started by the USA in the last 2 centuries?
How many dozens of millions of innocent people were killed by the USA all over the World?
US go home!
It will be peace on Earth.
And stop giving money and weapons to all those dictators, like Saddam, North Korea,...
If you did not get it: the Pentagon and the CIA create worldwide instability to justify their huge budgets.
Who forced Saddam to invade Iran? The CIA.
Who forced Saddam to invade Koweit? The CIA.
Who put Saddam in power? The CIA.
Other example: Africa.
How many hundreds of millions of Africans were killed by the crazy Whites?
Belgium killed 30.000.000 africans in Congo alone.
How many millions of Africans did the USA kill?
You killed more than the Nazis.
You killed more than the Stalin.
And then you believe your TV when it tells you that your country is the best!
Germans believed that Hitler was great too.
If you stopped looting the whole World you would be far less rich. Your money is full of blood.
You are the worst criminals on Earth.
The worst criminals in the history of Humanity.
Dig it!
Isn't there and AOL chatroom you should be confined to? I hate when you idiots spill over into the real world.
 

tnitsuj

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
5,446
0
76
I don't think most liberals want the US to become fully isolationist. That makes no sense.
 

BarneyFife

Diamond Member
Aug 12, 2001
3,878
0
76
Wow Crimson. Do you really believe all of that? Cuba is going to attack the US on top of it? I'm thinking you had a little too much coffee this morning.
 

zantac

Senior member
Jun 15, 2003
226
0
0
You are a fool, do you know how many demonstrations went on during those times? Do you really think we just sat there?
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
101,313
5,256
126
Originally posted by: GuyDebordJudoClub
How many dozens of wars were started by the USA in the last 2 centuries?
How many dozens of millions of innocent people were killed by the USA all over the World?
US go home!
It will be peace on Earth.
And stop giving money and weapons to all those dictators, like Saddam, North Korea,...
If you did not get it: the Pentagon and the CIA create worldwide instability to justify their huge budgets.
Who forced Saddam to invade Iran? The CIA.
Who forced Saddam to invade Koweit? The CIA.
Who put Saddam in power? The CIA.
Other example: Africa.
How many hundreds of millions of Africans were killed by the crazy Whites?
Belgium killed 30.000.000 africans in Congo alone.
How many millions of Africans did the USA kill?
You killed more than the Nazis.
You killed more than the Stalin.
And then you believe your TV when it tells you that your country is the best!
Germans believed that Hitler was great too.
If you stopped looting the whole World you would be far less rich. Your money is full of blood.
You are the worst criminals on Earth.
The worst criminals in the history of Humanity.
Dig it!
the USA never had colonies in africa, so i'm guessing less than belgium. if you're talking about slaves, well, were there even 30 million people in all of africa then? maybe there were but we obviously didn't kill them all. don't forget there were other countries involved in the slave trade so you can't lay the blame solely at our feet.

dozens of millions of innocents? not hardly.

as for wars we've started... well, there was one with canada, one with mexico, one with spain, and one with iraq. there was a little invasion of haiti in there as well.
 

AvesPKS

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2000
4,729
0
0
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: GuyDebordJudoClub
How many dozens of wars were started by the USA in the last 2 centuries?
How many dozens of millions of innocent people were killed by the USA all over the World?
US go home!
It will be peace on Earth.
And stop giving money and weapons to all those dictators, like Saddam, North Korea,...
If you did not get it: the Pentagon and the CIA create worldwide instability to justify their huge budgets.
Who forced Saddam to invade Iran? The CIA.
Who forced Saddam to invade Koweit? The CIA.
Who put Saddam in power? The CIA.
Other example: Africa.
How many hundreds of millions of Africans were killed by the crazy Whites?
Belgium killed 30.000.000 africans in Congo alone.
How many millions of Africans did the USA kill?
You killed more than the Nazis.
You killed more than the Stalin.
And then you believe your TV when it tells you that your country is the best!
Germans believed that Hitler was great too.
If you stopped looting the whole World you would be far less rich. Your money is full of blood.
You are the worst criminals on Earth.
The worst criminals in the history of Humanity.
Dig it!
the USA never had colonies in africa, so i'm guessing less than belgium. if you're talking about slaves, well, were there even 30 million people in all of africa then? maybe there were but we obviously didn't kill them all. don't forget there were other countries involved in the slave trade so you can't lay the blame solely at our feet.

dozens of millions of innocents? not hardly.

as for wars we've started... well, there was one with canada, one with mexico, one with spain, and one with iraq. there was a little invasion of haiti in there as well.
Hey...Remember the Maine! We didn't start the fire!
 

MonstaThrilla

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2000
1,652
0
0
I think true conservatives want isolationism more than Democrats/liberals. I'm a Democrat/liberal, and I think the US should be the world leader (not world bully), and it should have the most powerful military until world peace is ushered in and no major militaries are needed. But that probably translates into having the most powerful military forever, which is fine with me. I think the US needs to lead the world by example rather than force. Winthrop's City on the Hill. Be the nurturing mother rather than fear instilling bully.

Just because someone is anti-Iraq-war doesn't make them anti-every-war. Even "peacenik" candidate Howard Dean admits he was for both the war to liberate Kuwait and the Afghan war. Yet he's painted as some leftwing nut who wants to pull the U.S. out of everywhere and appease all the cruel dictators, by members of his own party even.

The people for the Iraq war need to realize how odd and unprecedented the war was. Just because people were against it doesn't make them against all war and anti-military. That's such a simplistic and jingoistic viewpoint that its scary for Americans to think like that.

If a President has to make a long "case" for war, for months, and still have significant opposition to it in his own country, then something might be fishy. Wars should be obvious and self-evident. When the Administration has to "make a case" for it, its probably not very kosher.
 

AvesPKS

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2000
4,729
0
0
Originally posted by: GuyDebordJudoClub
How could US corporations keep on looting the World without the help of the Pentagon and the CIA?
Would people let their countries get looted by the USA if the Pentagon and the CIA did not kill millions of them?
Ok, I'll agree with you that the US is doing this. It's in the best interest of the US. So what? If we all agreed to this, would there be anything else to debate?
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
101,313
5,256
126
Originally posted by: AvesPKS

Hey...Remember the Maine! We didn't start the fire!
the new york times started the fire!
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY