ok, so tell me, why do i need 64 bit os?

[wtfbollos]

yeah i know, more ram, but is that really much of a benefit?

who's done a test with two systems where the only difference is 4gb and say 8gb of ram?

apart from that, what other real, tangible reasons would i have for using 64 bit (W7)?

just about to upgrade the mobo and if i'm going 32-bit i won't need more than 4gb obviously..

 

[BrightCandle]

64 bit is not just about RAM its also about additional registers and a newer instruction set. When programs are designed for 64 bit they can see double digit performance improvements alongside the increase amount of available RAM for the software. The OS can be more efficient about its cache structure and lots of other hard to see benefits.

Its not going to stay 2003 forever, XP is end of life and 4GB is not going to be sufficient RAM to run any software forever. I have no problems building applications that need considerably more RAM than you have available and developers will keep using the hardware given to them.

 

[gmaster456]

All of the reasons above^. Plus, why not? There is no reason not to.

 

[lxskllr]

You don't have to go over 4gb even if you go with a 64bit system. Not only would you get the full 4gb, you're futureproofing your setup in case you decide to go with more ram. Like gmaster said, there's no reason not to.

 

[tweakboy]

Any Windows OS 32bit. 32bit you can only use 3.2GB of RAM even tho if you have 4GB

64bit allows for more lanes and it will allow for 4GB or more of RAM. thx gl

 

[BrightCandle]

There is a disadvantage though, 64 bit programs take up more RAM. But just like the 16 -> 32 bit days its inevitable that everything will become 64 bit in the coming years, because everyone will have them. Honestly there is little reason to stay on the mostly slower 32 instruction set when right now 16 GB cost the same as 4GB cost 5 years ago. The ever increasing transistor density keeps delivering us higher and higher densities of RAM and performance.

 

[JackMDS]

If everything that you currently do work OK, and you are an often upgrader, then it does not matter. Eventual you will have to upgrade and you can do it in the future.

On the other hand if all the software that you are using now works on x64, may be you can explain what benefit from Not switching to x64 is?

 

[sm625]

The only real reason to go with 32 bit is to save on HDD space. Really small kiosk or kitchen-counter type systems should remain 32 bit for many years. Desktops and notebooks may as well all be 64 bit now.

 

[Nothinman]

yeah i know, more ram, but is that really much of a benefit?

who's done a test with two systems where the only difference is 4gb and say 8gb of ram?

apart from that, what other real, tangible reasons would i have for using 64 bit (W7)?

just about to upgrade the mobo and if i'm going 32-bit i won't need more than 4gb obviously..

When you buy Win7 you get both so the question is why would you go 32-bit and paint yourself into a corner?

 

[Muse]

All of the reasons above^. Plus, why not? There is no reason not to.

Myself, I have reasons. My Win7 Ultimate 64 bit machine won't run several of my applications and when I want to run them I have to run XP in a virtual machine, a total PITA not just because I have to launch that and use it on the side but things run way slower and one of the apps is severely hamstrung in terms of the functionality. I can run it, but it's goddamn lame (my Pagemaker 6.5). I seriously considered reverting the Win7 machine to XP but figure I don't want to relegate myself to "yesterday's OS" even though it can do everything I need, AFAIK.

 

[Nothinman]

Myself, I have reasons. My Win7 Ultimate 64 bit machine won't run several of my applications and when I want to run them I have to run XP in a virtual machine, a total PITA not just because I have to launch that and use it on the side but things run way slower and one of the apps is severely hamstrung in terms of the functionality. I can run it, but it's goddamn lame (my Pagemaker 6.5). I seriously considered reverting the Win7 machine to XP but figure I don't want to relegate myself to "yesterday's OS" even though it can do everything I need, AFAIK.

Isn't Pagemaker 6.5 even older than XP?

 

[Anteaus]

According to Wiki PageMaker 9.0 (latest version) was released July, 2001. I've bet you've purchased a car or two in that time. Sometimes you just gotta bite the bullet and upgrade your software at the same time as your OS.

Since PageMaker is discontinued, I would recommend you start looking for an alternative to it. You really don't want to be caught with your pants don't if your XP machine does actually malfunction on you and you have no choice but to upgrade. It's always cheaper to do it on your own terms.

Edit : InDesign is its successer and already on V7.5 as of April 2011

 

[her209]

Using a 64-bit OS allows your application to address more virtual memory. With 32-bit, you're limited to 4GB half of which gets taken by Windows.

 

[gmaster456]

Myself, I have reasons. My Win7 Ultimate 64 bit machine won't run several of my applications and when I want to run them I have to run XP in a virtual machine, a total PITA not just because I have to launch that and use it on the side but things run way slower and one of the apps is severely hamstrung in terms of the functionality. I can run it, but it's goddamn lame (my Pagemaker 6.5). I seriously considered reverting the Win7 machine to XP but figure I don't want to relegate myself to "yesterday's OS" even though it can do everything I need, AFAIK.

Shame. It's not Windows 7's fault you're running Windows 95 era software though. Keep your expectations reasonable.

 

[Muse]

Shame. It's not Windows 7's fault you're running Windows 95 era software though. Keep your expectations reasonable.

So, I've got to toss my perfectly usable software, buy new software, go through the learning curve to get proficient with it? Is it worth the trouble? For what? A tad more speed? :whiste:

 

[Muse]

According to Wiki PageMaker 9.0 (latest version) was released July, 2001. I've bet you've purchased a car or two in that time. Sometimes you just gotta bite the bullet and upgrade your software at the same time as your OS.

Since PageMaker is discontinued, I would recommend you start looking for an alternative to it. You really don't want to be caught with your pants don't if your XP machine does actually malfunction on you and you have no choice but to upgrade. It's always cheaper to do it on your own terms.

Edit : InDesign is its successer and already on V7.5 as of April 2011

I have 3 XP machines right now, so it's no worry. And I can buy others if I want. I'm good with Pagemaker, I took classes, got the chops. I can do wonderful things with it if I have a mind to. I have produced a professional publication with it, however my aspirations to make it in DTP fizzled, just didn't find much work and went into database programming. I've still got code I use in FoxPro for Windows, and to support some of it I need to use XP, not 64 bit Win7.

Actually my car is a 97 Mazda, I like it fine. Does it have all the features of today's cars, not by a long shot, but I like the way it drives. I prefer to rollerskate or bike, and rarely use the car, actually. It has 22,000 on it.

 

[Muse]

Isn't Pagemaker 6.5 even older than XP?

Absolutely, I think it was from around 1997. I learned on 5.0, bought that at a student rate, and then upgraded to 6.5, which I still use because I know how and it gives me very close control of my printed output when I want it for whatever reason.

 

[Nothinman]

Using a 64-bit OS allows your application to address more virtual memory. With 32-bit, you're limited to 4GB half of which gets taken by Windows.

It's more than just memory although that's the most user visible feature.64-bit Windows has a number of security and performance enhancements and the only real downside is slightly larger binaries. And it's not that Windows takes half of your memory, the loss of memory is caused by hardware devices claiming those physical address and 32-bit Windows not allowing access to memory addresses above the 4G mark.

So, I've got to toss my perfectly usable software, buy new software, go through the learning curve to get proficient with it? Is it worth the trouble? For what? A tad more speed?

That's part of the burden of using computers, so yes. As you've seen as other software gets updated your "perfectly usable" software becomes less usable and eventually requires upgrades or replacements.

 

[lxskllr]

Absolutely, I think it was from around 1997. I learned on 5.0, bought that at a student rate, and then upgraded to 6.5, which I still use because I know how and it gives me very close control of my printed output when I want it for whatever reason.

Here ya go...

http://www.scribus.net/canvas/Scribus

You can Paypal me $100 for the hot tip. That's a bargain by any standard :^D

 

[wtfbollos]

thx for the replies, i've read them all..

When programs are designed for 64 bit they can see double digit performance improvements alongside the increase amount of available RAM for the software.

but what about with the same ampount of ram?

by how much does an app compiled for 64-bit beat a 32-bit app with the same amount of ram?

The OS can be more efficient about its cache structure and lots of other hard to see benefits.

so nothing so good that it can be named then?!

Its not going to stay 2003 forever, XP is end of life and 4GB is not going to be sufficient RAM to run any software forever. I have no problems building applications that need considerably more RAM than you have available and developers will keep using the hardware given to them.

well apps and systems can page, so ram itself will not restrict an app just lower it's performance?

 

[Anteaus]

Bottom line, unless you have a specific need not to go 64-bit there is absolutely no reason not to, and not doing it will actually put you at a disadvantage in the future. No need to study it in detail, it's a simple truth.

For those that have specific software that can't be carried forward for whatever reason, all I can recommend is to keep a machine as long as you can for compatibility, but realize that at some point your going to have to spend some time and money moving to something newer. It's inevitable. There are times in life where things that are perfectly usable have to be sacrificed in favor of innovation.

 

[Nothinman]

so nothing so good that it can be named then?!

A list of reasons could be created, however, and no offense meant, if you have to ask in the first place then you probably wouldn't understand.

well apps and systems can page, so ram itself will not restrict an app just lower it's performance?

It may. Being able to page to/from the pagefile doesn't buy you unlimited physical or virtual memory. On a 32-bit system the per-process VM limit is 4G with 2G of that address space used by the kernel so that leaves 2G of VM and part of that address space is used by the binary itself, shared libraries, mmap()'d files, etc so the real amount of virtual memory a single process can access is <2G.

 

[heymrdj]

Might as well give up guys, this is going to be one of those users that just wants to fight for the sake of fighting and inhibiting progress.

Sometimes wtfbollos benefits can't be seen by normal users. It's industry benefits that allows everything to move as a whole into the next era of computing, a change that *has* to happen for the good of the computing public, but that the public won't necessarily understand. What we're moving toward does not function within the limited space of 32bit. We'll need to be moved forward. And at the slugs pace that consumers make about wanting change, the industry has to start pushing that change slowly and steadily. It takes multiple generations of OS's and programs to finally get out of the rut. Otherwise we might as well have stayed back at 16 bit.

 

[bononos]

thx for the replies, i've read them all..


but what about with the same ampount of ram?

by how much does an app compiled for 64-bit beat a 32-bit app with the same amount of ram?

No difference unless the 64bit prog uses newer faster instructions like AVX.

so nothing so good that it can be named then?!

Yes it can be named - the important thing about 64bit OS is the amount of available address space since we are already hitting the 2G barrier in games for example. For large address aware games/apps, 32bit windows can wring out an additional 1G using the /3G switch which is helps but 64bit windows can furnish a full 4Gb for the LAA 32bit game or application. I found that it solves crashing issues. And thats just for 32bit programs. Future 64bit programs have access to >4Gb of address space.

well apps and systems can page, so ram itself will not restrict an app just lower it's performance?

No. Paging can play around with harddisk space to use more memory than 2Gb (for our 32bit pc example) for all applications combined that are running at the same time. Paging will not change the fact that a 32bit OS can only provide 2Gb for each application (without the 3Gb switch).

 

[BrightCandle]

No difference unless the 64bit prog uses newer faster instructions like AVX.

No its much more than that. AVX does add performance but its not the only thing. For one there are additional registers which some programs really benefit from. Some applications can be 50% faster just because of the registers and native double support whereas others loose a little because they are dependent on large amounts of memory and the cache is more burdened with 64 bit pointers. 64 bit is a better instruction set and it brings the CPU into more modern levels of registers, something 32bit x86 was short of.

No. Paging can play around with harddisk space to use more memory than 2Gb (for our 32bit pc example) for all applications combined that are running at the same time. Paging will not change the fact that a 32bit OS can only provide 2Gb for each application (without the 3Gb switch).

Paging can not make it possible for a 32 bit program to exceed 4 GB of RAM. The 2/3GB is a Windows limit but the 4GB number is the limit of a 32 bit integer (2^32) which is the maximum addressable memory space. All paging does is mean that if you run out of RAM it will use the considerably slower hard drive. You really don't want paging and today on a desktop its large

Bare in mind if you want to run an old program its best to run it on XP. Just install VirtualBox and XP within a VM and then use that to access your old software. You can make it share your drive and even make the apps look semi native in your Windows 7 environment, there is no reason not to have your cake and eat it at this point.