OK, set the record straight...can LCD displays suffer from burn-in or not?

[Imyourzero]

The reason I ask is because back when I frequented 3DFiles.com and LCD's were starting to get popular (but still very expensive), everyone said that one huge advantage they had over CRT displays was no burn-in. Evidently you could leave an image on an LCD monitor for a week straight with the screen saver disabled, and there would be no artifacts from burn-in.

However, I was recently on another forum discussing HDTV options. I mentioned that plasma displays are certainly beautiful but that I would hate to pay that much for a television that was prone to burn-in. I mentioned that the LCD TV's looked like a nice option due to no issues with burn-in, but someone piped up and said that LCD's CAN suffer from burn-in, and he's seen it happen, and that any burn-in on a plasma TV can be fixed/eliminated by running a certain signal through the TV (similar to pink/white noise with audio).

So what's the truth?

Edit: the main reason I'm asking is because I've now owned 2 LCD monitors...an 18" Viewsonic and now the 20.1" Dell, and I've just been wondering if it's necessary to keep a screen saver enabled. I suppose I'm paranoid that I'll be in the middle of a DVD ripping/encoding process and the screensaver will kick in and cause an error/pause/skip on the movie. That might not be an issue with the resources I have (P4 2.53 w/1GB DDR) and I know I can temporarily disable the screensaver, but I want to set the record straight for my own personal knowledge.

 

[0roo0roo]

lcd projection is not the same as lcd monitor. lcd monitors have no ability to burn in. its physically impossible. go to howstuffworks.com and learn how crts lcds and hdtv's work. then come back.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
lcd projection is not the same as lcd monitor. lcd monitors have no ability to burn in. its physically impossible. go to howstuffworks.com and learn how crts lcds and hdtv's work. then come back.

Not true.

My Dell 2001FP burns in sometimes when I read dark forums, like those at AVSforum, for example. Obviously not in the same manner as a phosphor based display, but the IE icon, buttons and text on the top left are visible for an hour or so after I've finished reading. Turning the monitor off or simply doing something else, like play a video game, makes it go away.

This is likely very depending on the make/model of your LCD and the type of viewing. It occurs most often with white text on a dark background.

 

[Imyourzero]

Originally posted by: KnightBreed

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
lcd projection is not the same as lcd monitor. lcd monitors have no ability to burn in. its physically impossible. go to howstuffworks.com and learn how crts lcds and hdtv's work. then come back.

Not true.

My Dell 2001FP burns in sometimes when I read dark forums, like those at AVSforum, for example. Obviously not in the same manner as a phosphor based display, but the IE icon, buttons and text on the top left are visible for an hour or so after I've finished reading. Turning the monitor off or simply doing something else, like play a video game, makes it go away.

This is likely very depending on the make/model of your LCD and the type of viewing. It occurs most often with white text on a dark background.

Weird. I've never noticed anything like that on my 2001FP...

 

[farmercal]

My Dell 2001FP burns in sometimes when I read dark forums, like those at AVSforum, for example. Obviously not in the same manner as a phosphor based display, but the IE icon, buttons and text on the top left are visible for an hour or so after I've finished reading. Turning the monitor off or simply doing something else, like play a video game, makes it go away.

I thought the definition of burn-in was that it does not go away, ever. What you are talking about sounds temporary. I have seen burn-in on military computers running old DOS programs and when the moniotor is turned off the display is still visible.

 

[KristopherKubicki]

KnightBreed:It sound like you have an artifact on your screen either due to: a poor cable or a poor power supply.

Kristopher

 

[Imyourzero]

Originally posted by: farmercal

My Dell 2001FP burns in sometimes when I read dark forums, like those at AVSforum, for example. Obviously not in the same manner as a phosphor based display, but the IE icon, buttons and text on the top left are visible for an hour or so after I've finished reading. Turning the monitor off or simply doing something else, like play a video game, makes it go away.

I thought the definition of burn-in was that it does not go away, ever. What you are talking about sounds temporary. I have seen burn-in on military computers running old DOS programs and when the moniotor is turned off the display is still visible.

Right; that's exactly what I was inquiring about in my original post. The permanent artifacts/images left "burned in" to the screen on CRT's. I used to think it only happened with those old, old green/black displays but I've noticed it on several of our computers at work also that have newer 17" CRT's. The screensavers are disabled and you can tell there is a permanent image burned into the display from the program screen they display most of the day.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Originally posted by: KristopherKubicki
KnightBreed:It sound like you have an artifact on your screen either due to: a poor cable or a poor power supply.

Kristopher

Actually I hadn't ruled that out as the cause. I'm using the DVI cable that came with the display. It might be an issue with interference or something.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Originally posted by: Imyourzero
Weird. I've never noticed anything like that on my 2001FP...

Have you ever actually looked for the issue? Open up a thread at avsforum.com and let it sit for a couple hours.

I have a dark wallpaper too, so when I close out IE I can sometimes still see the white text on the dark wallpaper. It always goes away pretty quickly, so I'm not worried about it. Though, I am worried about the red sparkles/specs that recently started appearing when I turn on the monitor.:frown:

 

[Mem]

In general the opinion around the web is no.

BENEFITS. LCDs are far thinner, lighter and sleeker than CRTs, making them favorites of interior decorators. LCDs also need no convergence. They're immune from "burn-in," so there's never any harm from videogames left on too long, DVDs in pause or station logos on the corner of the screen.

Link.

LCD panels do not suffer from burn-in.

another link .

 

[Dug]

LCD's don't suffere from burn in.

They DO suffer from stuck pixels which looks a lot like a burned in image on a CRT, which is where the confustion comes from.

If this happens, you just have to run a screen saver that exercises all the pixels with different colors.

 

[Imyourzero]

How does a stuck pixel differ from a dead pixel? I've noticed that on my 2001FP, I have a couple of pixels (a red one and a blue one) that show up when I have a black desktop background. Can I run one of those screensavers and have them return to normal?

 

[Dug]

Originally posted by: Imyourzero
How does a stuck pixel differ from a dead pixel? I've noticed that on my 2001FP, I have a couple of pixels (a red one and a blue one) that show up when I have a black desktop background. Can I run one of those screensavers and have them return to normal?

You don't have a dead pixel, you have a a bad subpixel. This is completely different than stuck pixels, which would display a dull image on your screen.

 

[imported_NoGodForMe]

I wouldn't leave the monitor on all the time.
LCD screens have a shelf life. I think it was 40k hours, but I'm not sure. At that point, the back light dims, and you have to throw away the entire thing. I turn mine off when not using it.

 

[zephyrprime]

KnightBreed:It sound like you have an artifact on your screen either due to: a poor cable or a poor power supply.

I don't see how that can possibly be the case.

It's probably just a little residiual charge on the capacitors in the pixels. Nothing really permanent.

But, I suppose if a particular part of the screen were illuminated a lot on an LCD, it could cause accelerated wear on the transitor and capacitor at that pixel. This could increase the off-state current leakage on the transitor which could produce burnin. Normally, in a digital device, small changes like this are obscured by the fact that the transitor's state is treated as being boolean but in an LCD I suppose that the transitor/capacitor pair's analog behavior is important.

It might also be possible to to have row and column burnin in an LCD.

 

[Imyourzero]

Originally posted by: NoGodForMe
I wouldn't leave the monitor on all the time.
LCD screens have a shelf life. I think it was 40k hours, but I'm not sure. At that point, the back light dims, and you have to throw away the entire thing. I turn mine off when not using it.

Good point, and I wouldn't consider not ever powering off the monitor. Still, even if I wanted to do that for some reason, that's still 4.5 years of constant 24/7 usage and I don't plan on using this same display 4.5 years from now. And since it's not on 24/7, it should last well beyond that...

 

[mbackof]

It was my understanding that the bulbs could be replaced in an LCD monitor, but not much else was cost effective. I work in the medical field so our monitors are quite expensive and used for diagnosis. Maybe it isn't cost effective to get bulbs replaced in a 17" LCD?

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: zephyrprime

KnightBreed:It sound like you have an artifact on your screen either due to: a poor cable or a poor power supply.

I don't see how that can possibly be the case.

It's probably just a little residiual charge on the capacitors in the pixels. Nothing really permanent.

But, I suppose if a particular part of the screen were illuminated a lot on an LCD, it could cause accelerated wear on the transitor and capacitor at that pixel. This could increase the off-state current leakage on the transitor which could produce burnin. Normally, in a digital device, small changes like this are obscured by the fact that the transitor's state is treated as being boolean but in an LCD I suppose that the transitor/capacitor pair's analog behavior is important.

It might also be possible to to have row and column burnin in an LCD.

but all the pixels are always illuminated all the time sometimes they just block the light. lcd flourescent tube backlight always on.

 

[zephyrprime]

but all the pixels are always illuminated all the time sometimes they just block the light. lcd flourescent tube backlight always on.

That's true. I guess I wasn't very clear and my statements were misleading. I didn't mean to speak of wear from light exposure, I actually meant electrical wear. It seems that the default state of pixels is off so in order to be turned on, its capacitor on it has to be charged and the transitor there has to allow electricity through.

I don't really know though. This is just speculation.

 

[TorquemadaXP]

Burn-in CAN happen.

This happened to a Samsung 181T 18" LCD I had. I've seen people leave their LCDs on for hours with no burn-in, but mine did. I had a permanent Internet Explorer bar and File Edit Menu bar at the top of my screen, just from a few hours of having it on (I fell asleep one night).

Since then, I have purchased a Samsung 213T, and I have the Blank screensaver come on after 5 minutes and the monitor shuts off after 10. I even put a shortcut the the screensaver in my Quick Launch bar. Seeing as how I just bought a $1200 LCD, I ain't takin' no chances.

Nonetheless, these "ghosts" of windows you just closed or moved that are visible against certain dark or medium-light colored backgrounds concern me. I have them on this new 213T, too. I've used the DVI cable that comes with each, though...could it bve my video card? I have a 9800 Pro that seems to work fine.

I am just sensitive to it because a) I have good eyes, and b) I spent a crapload on the monitor and am very wary of this phenomena.

 

[Lonyo]

I would turn the monitor off when not in use.
While it consumes less power than CRT, it still consumes power (I looked for some numbers and it seems they consume about half the power of a similar sized CRT).
That way, you save a bit of money, and don't have to worry about burn in

 

[Mark R]

There is a lot of confusion about this, and it comes from different people meaning different things by 'burn in'.

Burn-in is a permanent phenomenon which affects, primarily, CRTs. Whenever a part of the screen is energized it gradually degrades. If a fixed image is displayed for *thousands* of hours, then it can cause uneven degradation and leave that image burned into the screen permanently. On CRTs this can be seen even when the screen is switched off. On CRT projectors (including rear projection TVs) the phosphors operate at very high stress, and visible aging can occur within a few *hundreds* of hours.

OLED displays also suffer from burn-in. Current OLED displays are very bad in this regard, and can be permanently damaged after a few *hundred* hours. I've seen car stereos and other gadgets with wrecked screens after only a month or two on an in-store display.

Plasma screens use phosphors in the same way as CRTs, but energize them with a gas plasma instead of an electron beam. [Edit] As the phosphors are the cause of the burn-in on a CRT, plasma screens too are susceptible to burn-in. Again, like on CRTs this takes *thousands* of hours to develop, but once developed it is permanent.

LCDs cannot degrade in the same way. All the pixels and their coloured filters are exposed to even illumination due to the fluorescent backlights. The active part of the display consists of the liquid crystal and the transistors. The transistors operate at low stress so should age extremely slowly. The liquid crystal itself should not degrade unevenly under normal use.

However, LCDs can suffer from a temporary ghosting phenomenon. If a fixed image is displayed for a few hours (typically less than 24) then it may cause a residual charge to remain on the capacitors in an active matrix, and therefore a faint 'ghost' image. This will usually dissipate within a few minutes to an hour and should not have any long-term consequences.

 

[ssmith]

9 Days ago I purchased a Dell Inspiron 8600 with WSXGA+ Screen (Samsung) and a Radeon 9600 Pro Turbo mobility 128meg. It has a Pentium M 1.5ghz and 512meg of RAM.

Tomorrow I am sending it back because it sufferes from absolutely HORRIBLE BURN-IN

I never believed this could be possible with an LCD, as I was always told it wasn't, and I have (2) yes, *2* Samsung 191T's at home on my desk that I leave for hours at a time on the regular windows screen with startbar, etc, no screensaver.

My new Dell laptop has NEVER been on for more than 5 minutes idle without the screensaver (blank) kicking in and then at 20 mins the entire thing shutting down into power save mode.

People, you dont understand how horrible the burn-in is.

I have a HIGHLY VISIBLE startbar outline stuck on the screen along with associated task bar icons, as well as desktop icons, hell, the worst part about it is that the oval WindowsXP background i had on the desktop has left a giant oval white background that seriously gets in the way of watching DVD movies.


It is so horrible that if you have a dark gray screen of any kind up, say for example a game of Need For Speed Underground that uses lots of grays, and light blues, you can see the outline of the taskbar and icons, and background oval shape in all of this very clearly.

I thought it couldnt happen but it happened to me.

Do a search on google for "DELL BURN IN LCD" or even go to Dell community forums and you'll see the number of complains about the Dell laptops and burn-in problems that leave "ghost-like images" of various menus and things.

The crazy part about it, is i never left my screen on for longer than 5 mins at a time. If it was on for a long time, i was playing a game or watching a DVD and this thing is only *9 DAYS OLD* for God's sake!!!

So , I found this foruma dn you guys discussing this as I am gathering info for the reaming I am going to give Dell tomorrow. This all started today at work when a co-worker asked what the wierd outlines of lines were on the screen while i was showing him a DVD on the new laptop. He suggested I Clean the screen.... man, i wish it owuld have been that simple!

I even tried leaving the screen on a pure white background/screensaver with no icons visible for basically 6 hours today and I couldn't "un-burn" the problem. This was suggested by some Mac forum guys that had the same problems with Apple displays a few years back.

I can't wait to get this damn thing replaced. I waited 3 months to save up to buy this friggen thing and now it's gotta go back!! ugh, i cant get a break lately!