Ok, KENNEDY is critisizing ASHCROFT???

[thebestMAX]

Another argument that cant be won but I will say this. Kennedy couldnt be less of an embarrasment to anyone or anything than he already is.

I lived in Pa not 15 miles from the Kopecneys (sp) during the "accident" proceedings and I lived in Missouri for 22 years.

Id trust Ashcroft 1000 times more than teddy even though I think separation of church and state still has a long way to go to be realized.

 

[SuperTool]

Also, about those cases Fdisk posted.
The US supreme court recently ruled that highway drug checks constituted unreasonable search, and ruled them unconstitutional. So White was not as outta whack as you would portray it.
The rest of these cases aren't too clear cut either, and his opinion is not unreasonable. Remember, Judges don't work for the DA, so there is no requirement that they rubber stamp what prosecution requires. He can side with prosecution or defense. If he makes a reasonable interpretation of the laws, he is entitled to his opinion.

 

[fdiskboy]

Supertool,

I frankly don't give a rat's ass about the confirmation--he's going to be confirmed.

However, did you read the highway search opinion? I don't care if those searches were ruled
unconstitutional, his reasoning was unbelieveably skewed. I don't want someone like White on any federal bench. And of course, that was only one case.

You call those opinions reasonable?????
That is unbelieveable. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

The main thing that annoys me here is that all the sudden anyone with strong views cannot be allowed to hold a position of authority. Actually the founder's meant for people with strong views to hold power--just not to FORCE those views down other's throats. Ashcroft has never done that.

 

[classy]

If anyone questions anything I posted just go do a search on msnbc or cnn. Just search John Ashcroft. His record and dealings are well documented. I do my research before I speak, unlike some. The man is not good for all people. I also find it amazing that a-holes like fdisk can call me names and stuff. But thats cool with me, cause personally I have said many times people like you are beneath me anyway. Its people like you who are the true closet racists and you get pissed when someone black or minority is outspoken about some of your hatred beliefs. One of my best friends who is white said his uncle said that the worst n*ggers are the ones that will speak up for themselves. My boy said his uncle says those are the ones that need to be killed. And everytime someone like fdisk gets pissed because I give the other side of the story, I am quickly reminded of this. Its phonys like you fdisk that make America as messed up as it is. Never in the history of our goverment has any one nominee faced so much oppostion. So if Ashcroft is so good for our country how does he now have this cloud of oppostion from so many different groups of people. They aren't all women, black, criminals, or gays. You can spit and cry whatever you want but this guy has a past that is really really shady. There is no way around it. So no fdisk, I won't be going anywhere anytime soon. Because in all honesty I am not afraid to say what I believe and am certainly not afraid of people like you. I may be one of the few blacks who posts here in OT regularly and I think I'll hang around a while. And I mean to offend no good person because there are a lot of people here I kinda like, but fools like fidsk no matter what I say or do it will always be wrong. Because to people like fdisk its my color that he can't stand. Its not too many black geeks but they do exist. But I am really not a geek, I think.

 

[SuperTool]

Bush just needs to shut up with his whole uniter not divider crap. Does he really expect the congress to be united behind Ashcroft. What a joke. If he wants to be a uniter, he needs to put forth moderates that democrats can agree on.
Mark my words, "uniter not divider" will be to George W. Bush what "no new taxes" was to his father.

 

[thebestMAX]

Ashcroft is a brilliant political move by the Bush administration. Pays off many debts and p!sses off a lot of people at the same time.

Only time will tell if it was the RIGHT move.

 

[Zucchini]

brilliant? Hah, did bush lower the standards for that too?

 

[danieldex]

women's rights, gay rights, everyone has rights these days except conservative white people like john ashcroft. it is truly sad how he is labeled a racist when there is no proof of this. because he opposes abortion and gun control means he is a bad person for the country? i think not. at least he does not lie and be brainwashed by the democratic media

opposing gun control does not mean he is a redneck who shoots people. ted kennedy is an a**hole. makinf fun of ashcroft for talking about the u.s. governemnt becoming "tyrannical" that could very well happen mr. kennedy


note :im not a republican or democrat i live in canada i just follow the news if i did live in the states i would be a libertarian though

 

[classy]

women's rights, gay rights, everyone has rights these days except conservative white people like john ashcroft. it is truly sad how he is labeled a racist when there is no proof of this.

No one is calling him a racist or anything else for that matter. What everyone is all up in arms over his various stands that are highly controversial. For supporters of Ashcroft to say he should not be facing this kind of oppostion, just look at his record while in various offices. The guy has done some very "questionable" things in the past. He's done some good things too. But for attorney general there should be some kind of consistency. Not necessarily agreeing with everything, but he took steps in certain situations to the very limit. The brother of civil rights worker Medgar Evers even has expressed support for Ashcroft. Not everyone is against him, but people are concerned that he will become an "activist" and try to use his power as Attorney General to push views he believes in and not uphold the law. And whether we agree or not, most of America does not share all the views of Ashcroft. And even some of those that do, don't agree to the extent Ashcroft does.

 

[AndrewR]

Ashcroft is no more controversial than Reno in his opinions, except they just happen to be conservative. Radical liberals are lauded for their "progressive" views while conservative opinions are lambasted as reactionary, racist, and wrong. Does anyone else see a disconnect there? It's troublesome that the tone of the media and the entire Democratic Party is to DEMONIZE conservative viewpoints and to paint them as entirely false and wrong, rather than to disagree on a policy basis.

 

[classy]

What's conservative about speaking at Bob Jones University?
What's conservative about voting against the Brady Bill?
What's conservative about voting against the federal assalut weapons ban?
What's conservative about..........................AHHHHHHHHHHHHH never mind!!!!!

He is not good for OUR country. And this country has many different people.

 

[Thorn]

I find this hilarious considering that the Kennedys were close pals with Joe McCarthy... you remember him, the guy who went around "crucifying" every Communist he could find. Ashcroft looks like a paragon of tolerence compared to that witch-hunting bigot.

 

[Thorn]

<< My beef, the only beef is his Personal Beliefs, I don't want anyone in the goverment to be a fundimentalist, whether that is Joe Lieberman or John Ashcroft. >>


Their religious/moral beliefs are their own business, just like your humanist beliefs are yours. Unless someone in office breaks the law it's really noone's concern (including yours).

How about flexing a little bit of that &quot;Liberal Tolerence&quot; you guys always talk about having?

I'll even go one further. If Gore (whom I passionately dislike as a person) had been elected and someone were trying to kill him, I'd step in between them and take a bullet for him. I feel like it would be my obligation as an American to do so, regardless of his personal views. Would you do the same for Bush? Does your country mean more to you than some differing personal views?

 

[DefRef]

The majority of the people bashing Ashcroft are just parroting the propaganda from the media/liberals (one and the smae) in their campaign to &quot;Bork&quot; Ashcroft.

He only lost his Senate campaign because he stopped campaigning when Carnahan died AND because a Democratic judge ordered the polls in St. Louis to stay open hours after the cutoff time, so that as many dubious votes could be herded through. He could've protested that and the fact that the law says that you have to be a resident, as in ALIVE, of the state. Voting for the wife as proxy was wrong, but he let it slide.

I don't have time to go thru the big lies of Kennedy now. I'll add them when I get home.

 

[Tominator]

Who wiretapped black leaders and called one a 'fairy?'

Who named Joe McCarthy his childs godfather?

His initials? RFK

He's got gaul! Couldn't tell the truth if his life depended on it, but he does have gaul.:disgust:

 

[Tominator]

Red Dawn
That's bullcrap and you know it! Democrats hold up the Kennedy family as icons to their party. David Duke has NEVER been held up by the Republican party as anything!

The Swimmer

 

[JellyBaby]

As far as I'm concerned Teddy Kennedy has ZERO credibility except perhaps as a beer taster. Ashcroft won't be this demon some of you are scared of. Reno was pro-gun control, pro-invasion of privacy, pro-abortion and we all survived though damage was certainly done. But the thing about damage -- it can be repaired.

 

[Tominator]

classy



<< He fought against desegragation in schools. >>



Not exactly. He was against forced bussing....a proven failure we know now.



<< He fought against Ronnie White. He called him pro-criminal. Despite the fact his record of upholding the death penalty was more than 70%. >>



Red Dawn has it right here....Political Payback. Nothing new since the stone age.



<< During his campaign in which he lost to a dead man by the way, him or someone in his campaign really got very racial... >>



No, more distortion. ALL campaign ads were pulled the next morning and Mel Carnahan's wife was immediately announced as the appointee if Carnaha won the vote. Ashcroft had sound legal grounds to challenge this, but like the gentleman he is, did not. For instance....a 2 year residency is required. Jean Carnahan had not been a legal resident in Missouri for over four years. A constitutional issue that Ashcroft could have won on.



<< He sued a womans organization because they don't believe in his views. >>



The State of Missouri voted down the idiotoic Equal Rights Amendment pushed by the National Organisation of Women. After the vote, NOW announced a boycott of Missouri's tourism. Ashcroft was watching out for his State as any Attourney General should have regardless of his party.





<< No man who has voted against every law that is either pro minority, woman, and pro gun control can be trusted to make sure those laws are being enforced correctly. >>



You were wrong on everything else, why bother...

Your research is sorely lacking...:Q

 

[etech]

CNN
&quot;Charles Polk, a black lawyer helping Ashcroft prepare for the Senate hearings, said there is no evidence Ashcroft is a racist -- an allegation even many of his critics reject.

&quot;When you talk about racism what do you look for? You look for a pattern,&quot; Polk said. &quot;The black justices that have come before him for confirmation, there were 27. He voted for 26 -- voted, yes, for 26. I see a pattern there, but the pattern is what we're all proud of.&quot;

Ok, that ends that Ashcroft is a racist debate, next.

 

[DefRef]

Back to our regular scheduled flamewar:

The Left (all encompassing term for the media-statist-Democratic complex) has been shrieking like cheerleaders in a John Carpenter movie that Bush is being &quot;divisive&quot; in his nominations and are trying to claim that his less-than-majority vote total deprives him of the right to pick his own Cabinet.

Well, Dubya got 48% of the vote and Clinton only got 43% in 1992, but that didn't stop him from ruling (with the Left's help) as if he got 86%. No one was saying that he couldn't nominate who HE wanted even though 57% of the voters voted AGAINST him. He was allowed to load his Cabinet with politcal hacks, cronies and coverup specialists without a peep from the media.

As for Teddy &quot;one for the road&quot; Kennedy, I didn't hear him speak out when the Democrats nominated someone who would then go on and order the wiretaps of a civil rights leader, call the organizer of a major civil rights march a &quot;black fairy&quot; and had a man considered a right-wing extremist/witchhunter as the godfather of his child.

Want to know why?

Because it was his brother, Robert F. Kennedy.

RFK had J. Edgar Hoover wiretap Martin Luther King, Jr., referred to Bayard Rustin, the organizer of the March on Washington, as an &quot;old black fairy&quot; and had Joe McCarthy as godfather of his first child.

So, why is Ashcroft getting blasted, when he signed the MLK holiday into law as Gov. of MO, appointed numerous minorities to the bench and has generally been well-respected until the Left decided to destroy him?

Because he's everything the Left fears: Conservative, religious and HONEST.

The Left has gotten so used to the corrupt shenanigans under the Reno protection umbrella that they're terrified of the possibility that the truth come out.

Part of the smear campaign has been the repeated assertion that Ashcroft is &quot;outside of the mainstream&quot; because he has stated that unchecked abortion-on-demand, government gun grabbing in defiance of the Constitution and quota-based punishment of whites may not be the best thing for the country. To the Left, the &quot;mainstream&quot; is abortion as birth control, no guns (except for criminals) and whatever crumbs they can throw to the minority community to secure their votes.

It's fascinating that a man that these Democrat Senators served with and spoke highly of only a few weeks ago is now being cast as a 21st-Century Torquemada. During the campaign, the Left cheered that Joe Lieberman was a great guy because he spoke openly (and constantly) about his faith and how it informed his politics, now the NUMERO UNO beef against Ashcroft is that he's TOO RELIGIOUS!!! WTF is that?!? (And where the hell has Lieberman gone? Why isn't he speaking out against the anti-religious hate speech going on now?)

This is all part of the Left's sore-loser, cry-baby, trouble-making. They can't believe they lost and have embarked on a terror campaign to make damn sure that Dubya doesn't get anything done with the goal of retaking the Congress in '02 and the White House (paging Hillary!) in '04. How can Dubya unite anyone when the other side has the specific plan to divide.

Final note: Did anyone notice that the press' recount of the Florida undervotes is almost done and that Bush would've netted 6 more votes in Dade County IF they had counted the undervotes. Goreistas had predicted a gain of 600 for them. Guess not. A snip:

The review, concluded last week, also showed the vast majority of ballots rejected as undervotes -- ballots where no vote for president was recorded when counted by machine -- appeared, in fact, to cast no vote for president.

Well...duh!

I wonder if we're gonna hear that Gore would've lost after all or if they're gonna let the Big Lie? that Dubya stole the election continue on.

Dumb question, isn't it?

The GOP are a bunch of clueless hypocrites and the Dems have turned into a gang of jackals that serve no purpose but to empower themselves. If you're sick of the bickering, do something about it...

VOTE LIBERTARIAN IN 2004!!!

 

[Tominator]

...And the comment about David Duke?

Teddy the Swimmer has spoken at Clinton fund raisers and at every Dem Convention in the last 30 years.

Is there a parallel I'm missing....nope!

 

[AndrewR]

Red Dawn: Tell me you do not see a difference in the liberal media (and its instigators, Jesse Jackson chief among them) immediately painting Ashcroft a racist reactionary more or less solely based on two issues -- Ronnie White and involuntary bussing -- and in the attacks leveled against such people as Lan Lee and Zoe Baird. The key aspect is that while conservatives have certainly attacked liberals for being liberal and by denouncing their positions on various points, they have NOT immediately labeled them with a loaded and often indefensible term which immediately paints anything they do with stark colors, pun intended. Ashcroft is being portrayed as being EVIL, not simply conservative, and his views which are shared by a great many people in this country, are portrayed as disgusting and wrong. No, the TRUE spirit of the American people is diametrically opposed to Ashcroft's opinions, according to his critics.

It's the race card, foremost, but there's slightly more to it which is difficult to define. Conservatives tend to attack liberal candidates by pointing out ultra-liberal tenets -- support for late-term abortions, support for racial quotas, opposition to the death penalty, weakness on crime, etc. Liberals have started a trend in calling conservatives racist at the slightest wrinkle that could be construed as such when looked at with a jaundiced eye. Maybe it's just me seeing this, but it's disturbing from my perspective.

 

[NovaTerra]

I would think that this poor man would be terribly conflicted if voted in by Congress. He has said he will uphold the laws of the land. But the laws of this land are in direct opposition to the laws of his Bible and his church. How does a man with deep religious conviction stand before his God on Judgement Day and defend Abortion rights? If I were a deeply religious person and against abortion, I would make it a point to tell the Senators that I would be fighting for the unborn as well as the born as the AG.

It is his seemingly contradictory positions on Abortion and other issues that make this man, in my opionion, unsuitable for the job. If he were honest about his future plans vis a vis Roe V. Wade, he would be believed as a more honest person.

The other problem I have with this man is that he seems to evade the whole Bob Jones University issue. Today, under questioning, he said that he &quot;did not know&quot; the University's policy on interratial dating when he accepted an honorary degree. When asked if he would accept a degree from the university now, knowing what he knows, he said &quot;it depends.&quot; I find it hard to believe that a man as astute as Senator Ashcroft would not have full knowledge of a University's policies before he accepts a degree.

He seems like a man with strong convictions, someone that would do well in this post. But he also seems like he has problems reconciling those positions with things he has done in the past.


And as far as the Judge White issue is concerned...It is obvious that what the Senator did was political payback. I can tell that Judge White used his influence to kill the abortion amendment...but that does not justify the crucifiction that Sen Ashcroft conducted when his appointment hearings came around. In questioning today, a Senator laid out in gory detail how Senator Ashcroft did all he could to make sure that Judge White did not make the federal bench. One of the things brought up in this line of questioning was that Senator Ashcroft tried to get all of the Police organizations in the state to sign off on a letter denouncing White. Problem is, the vast majority of Police organizations SUPPORTED White at the time. Senator Ashcroft did get a small percentage of the Police in the state to support his campaign against White, and the Senator conveniently omitted from his testimony all the support White had from the police at the time his appointment was voted down by Congress. It was clear that Senator Ashcroft was conducting political payback--I just do not know why he will not admit it. The fact that he will not admit it also shows a slight flaw in his character.

I am sure there will be copies or links of the transcripts from today's hearings posted around...but some of the stuff said was eye-opening.

 

[Tominator]

The Bible commands a Christian Obey the Laws of the Land. I see no problem with him upholding the laws. I still do not see where abortion being legal and him against has anything to do with protecting abortion clinics or abortion...well let's not call the doctors as they do not believe in the saving lives, only profiting by taking lives.

I guess since many in Congress do not believe in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, they should immediately resign as they are continually trying to modify the meaning for their own agenda. This argument would disqualiy ALL Liberals and MOST Democrats.

 

[DefRef]

Here's an excerpt from that sadly forgotten document, the Constitution: (Article VI, Clause 3)

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

I wonder how the Democrats who swore (with their fingers crossed?) to uphold the Constitution, as part of their oaths of office, square their current jihad against Ashcroft with this?