Ok. I give up. CUT TAXES. CUT TAXES. CUT TAXES.

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: albatross
any collective scheme will eventually fail to an "us" against "them" situation.

I know Dave is always going on about a "revolution", but IMHO if there is a revolution in the US it will be young vs old.

I know techs isnt serious, but right now those under 35 are ALREADY SCREWED, and theres nothing that can really change that, other than drastically raising taxes now while drastically reducing spending at the same time(aint going to happen), or doing away with medicad/medicare(ain't going to happen).

Social Security is a relatively minor problem.

Medicad/Medicare is not and will bankrupt this nation/force younger workers to be slaves to the older generations.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: albatross
any collective scheme will eventually fail to an "us" against "them" situation.

I know Dave is always going on about a "revolution", but IMHO if there is a revolution in the US it will be young vs old.

I know techs isnt serious, but right now those under 35 are ALREADY SCREWED, and theres nothing that can really change that, other than drastically raising taxes now while drastically reducing spending at the same time(aint going to happen), or doing away with medicad/medicare(ain't going to happen).

Social Security is a relatively minor problem.

Medicad/Medicare is not and will bankrupt this nation/force younger workers to be slaves to the older generations.

Yeah, too bad for the young.
"Revolution"? Never happen. Too many of the young care about Mom and Pop. A significant portion of the young won't want to touch SS because then Mom and Pop will:
a) have to be supported by their kids
b) have to spend their kids inheritance if they cut SS.
Nope, add up the the kids who stand to inherit and the oldsters and you are talking 65 percent of the population.
No revolution. Just money for me.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: Genx87

Agreed. The whole taxes, taxes, taxes bit is a false dilemma fraud of massive proportions.

Think about the whole scam for a moment. The govt overspends on their budget and convinces you that your taxes need to be higher because they cant control their drunken spending spree. The sad and unbelievable thing about it is people buy into this hand over fist.

I used to support a balanced budget amendment until I realized all it will do is require congress to increase taxation to cover their lack of fiscal control.

I honestly believe it is possible to do without raising taxes, even enough to lower them. However, Dubya will never be the one to do it.

It is always possible as deficits are a spending issue. Every year they can cut the spending to match the tax revenues. But you wont see either party do that because it is a nice political game they get to play at our expense. The worst part is the majority of this country is too stupid to catch on and gladly ask to have their taxes raised so the drunks can buy themselves another drink.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: albatross
any collective scheme will eventually fail to an "us" against "them" situation.

I know Dave is always going on about a "revolution", but IMHO if there is a revolution in the US it will be young vs old.

I know techs isnt serious, but right now those under 35 are ALREADY SCREWED, and theres nothing that can really change that, other than drastically raising taxes now while drastically reducing spending at the same time(aint going to happen), or doing away with medicad/medicare(ain't going to happen).

Social Security is a relatively minor problem.

Medicad/Medicare is not and will bankrupt this nation/force younger workers to be slaves to the older generations.

Nah SS and Medicare/caid total out about $800 billion or about 1/3 of Federal budget outlay. That's a whole 2/3 of pie that will be looked at first before the revolution. 40% voting block is huge and thier sympathetic kids adds even more.

I think what will really happen, relising the temporay nature, i.e. once the baby bomber die off it's no longer a problem because of our low child birth rate, is passive income exemption will be removed. Also income caps will be removed like medicare has done. The first two hit a minority so it will have traction...And finally they may even increase the payroll tax to fund that 40% on SS and medical..

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: albatross
any collective scheme will eventually fail to an "us" against "them" situation.

I know Dave is always going on about a "revolution", but IMHO if there is a revolution in the US it will be young vs old.

I know techs isnt serious, but right now those under 35 are ALREADY SCREWED, and theres nothing that can really change that, other than drastically raising taxes now while drastically reducing spending at the same time(aint going to happen), or doing away with medicad/medicare(ain't going to happen).

Social Security is a relatively minor problem.

Medicad/Medicare is not and will bankrupt this nation/force younger workers to be slaves to the older generations.

Nah SS and Medicare/caid total out about $800 billion or about 1/3 of Federal budget outlay. That's a whole 2/3 of pie that will be looked at first before the revolution. 40% voting block is huge and thier sympathetic kids adds even more.

I think what will really happen, relising the temporay nature, i.e. once the baby bomber die off it's no longer a problem because of our low child birth rate, is passive income exemption will be removed. Also income caps will be removed like medicare has done. The first two hit a minority so it will have traction...And finally they may even increase the payroll tax to fund that 40% on SS and medical..

I agree with most of that.
The good news today is the Republicans are moving up in the Senate races.
Unlike with Clinton, having Bush in office guarantees with a Democratic House and Republican Senate that the there will be increases in spending and TAX CUTS.
Whee! I am doing great. The Spender In Chief Bush and the Republicans will now compete with the Democrats to see who can spend more money.
And Bush ain't gonna allow no tax increases. In fact, the Democrats can't do nothing about the TAX CUTS cause it will cost them votes.
TAX CUTS and SPENDING INCREASES.
My retirement is looking better and better.
And my young worker bees who are going to support me are going to have to work harder and harder for me.
I LOVE America!

 

[magomago]

the solution is simple: move out of the US That'll fix anything if you are worried about SS, although I thought we did have one of the generally lower rates of taxation compared to other countries

 

[dannybek]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: albatross
any collective scheme will eventually fail to an "us" against "them" situation.

I know Dave is always going on about a "revolution", but IMHO if there is a revolution in the US it will be young vs old.

I know techs isnt serious, but right now those under 35 are ALREADY SCREWED, and theres nothing that can really change that, other than drastically raising taxes now while drastically reducing spending at the same time(aint going to happen), or doing away with medicad/medicare(ain't going to happen).

Social Security is a relatively minor problem.

Medicad/Medicare is not and will bankrupt this nation/force younger workers to be slaves to the older generations.

Nah SS and Medicare/caid total out about $800 billion or about 1/3 of Federal budget outlay. That's a whole 2/3 of pie that will be looked at first before the revolution. 40% voting block is huge and thier sympathetic kids adds even more.

I think what will really happen, relising the temporay nature, i.e. once the baby bomber die off it's no longer a problem because of our low child birth rate, is passive income exemption will be removed. Also income caps will be removed like medicare has done. The first two hit a minority so it will have traction...And finally they may even increase the payroll tax to fund that 40% on SS and medical..

I agree with most of that.
The good news today is the Republicans are moving up in the Senate races.
Unlike with Clinton, having Bush in office guarantees with a Democratic House and Republican Senate that the there will be increases in spending and TAX CUTS.
Whee! I am doing great. The Spender In Chief Bush and the Republicans will now compete with the Democrats to see who can spend more money.
And Bush ain't gonna allow no tax increases. In fact, the Democrats can't do nothing about the TAX CUTS cause it will cost them votes.
TAX CUTS and SPENDING INCREASES.
My retirement is looking better and better.
And my young worker bees who are going to support me are going to have to work harder and harder for me.
I LOVE America!

Your plan could backfire. As anything can. Nothing when it comes to society can be predicted. It is possible that yes the people of my generation may get a spanking or a punch to the face. But after that vote in numbers. You see you may believe that your going to "discipline" the people my generation to become more politically active and less "WOOHH PARIS HILTON." But the truth be told this is not going to be discipline. This is like a intention punch to the face. And you're gonna drive a lot of people my generation mad. That it is possible they will take their frustrations out on November... or beat up a person your age and steal his/her money.

We can work out an compromise. How about we lower taxes for the middle class and working class and put a 50% tax raise on those making $500,000 to $1million, 70% tax raise on those making $1 million - $3 million, 80% tax raise for those making 3 million to 5 million and 90% tax raise on those making $5 million above. Not only will alleviate the SS and Medicaid problem but clamp down on corporate fraud.

 

[conehead433]

Didn't Bush already cut taxes for the rich and the oil companies as well. I personally haven't benefitted, but aren't their tax cuts supposed to help most of us by trickling down? Of course the way it really works is that the rich get richer and most of the rest oh us get trickled on.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: dannybek

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: albatross
any collective scheme will eventually fail to an "us" against "them" situation.

I know Dave is always going on about a "revolution", but IMHO if there is a revolution in the US it will be young vs old.

I know techs isnt serious, but right now those under 35 are ALREADY SCREWED, and theres nothing that can really change that, other than drastically raising taxes now while drastically reducing spending at the same time(aint going to happen), or doing away with medicad/medicare(ain't going to happen).

Social Security is a relatively minor problem.

Medicad/Medicare is not and will bankrupt this nation/force younger workers to be slaves to the older generations.

Nah SS and Medicare/caid total out about $800 billion or about 1/3 of Federal budget outlay. That's a whole 2/3 of pie that will be looked at first before the revolution. 40% voting block is huge and thier sympathetic kids adds even more.

I think what will really happen, relising the temporay nature, i.e. once the baby bomber die off it's no longer a problem because of our low child birth rate, is passive income exemption will be removed. Also income caps will be removed like medicare has done. The first two hit a minority so it will have traction...And finally they may even increase the payroll tax to fund that 40% on SS and medical..

I agree with most of that.
The good news today is the Republicans are moving up in the Senate races.
Unlike with Clinton, having Bush in office guarantees with a Democratic House and Republican Senate that the there will be increases in spending and TAX CUTS.
Whee! I am doing great. The Spender In Chief Bush and the Republicans will now compete with the Democrats to see who can spend more money.
And Bush ain't gonna allow no tax increases. In fact, the Democrats can't do nothing about the TAX CUTS cause it will cost them votes.
TAX CUTS and SPENDING INCREASES.
My retirement is looking better and better.
And my young worker bees who are going to support me are going to have to work harder and harder for me.
I LOVE America!

Your plan could backfire. As anything can. Nothing when it comes to society can be predicted. It is possible that yes the people of my generation may get a spanking or a punch to the face. But after that vote in numbers. You see you may believe that your going to "discipline" the people my generation to become more politically active and less "WOOHH PARIS HILTON." But the truth be told this is not going to be discipline. This is like a intention punch to the face. And you're gonna drive a lot of people my generation mad. That it is possible they will take their frustrations out on November... or beat up a person your age and steal his/her money.

We can work out an compromise. How about we lower taxes for the middle class and working class and put a 50% tax raise on those making $500,000 to $1million, 70% tax raise on those making $1 million - $3 million, 80% tax raise for those making 3 million to 5 million and 90% tax raise on those making $5 million above. Not only will alleviate the SS and Medicaid problem but clamp down on corporate fraud.

Sorry. ANY increases in taxes on anyone is out. Even if tax cuts for the rich don't help the economy as much as tax cuts for the middle class I can live with that. TAX CUTS for everyone. If even one segment of the population doesn't get a tax cut than ANY segment is at risk for not getting a tax cut.
In fact, by cutting taxes more for the rich it ensures the middle class will use more social services. Which gets MORE SPENDING.
As for the younger generation getting more "politically active" well, they are just so darn un-educated it is too late for so many. Let's just forget about the next generation. They have LOST.
I'm thinking that we are going to need a lot of people to help take care of us boomers in our retirement years. I say let in the guest workers as soon as possible. Let them have some time to learn English and put them in competition with Americans.
Who wins? I DO! With foreigners willing to work for peanuts, under any conditions, I can see at least some Americans so desperate for jobs they will have to do the same.
Whee!.
Economic destitution is a great motivator!

 

[ProfJohn]

My 2 cents, and maybe someone mentioned this, but I skipped most of thread because it looks like a lot of junk.

1. Tax cutes do not directly relate to less revenue or greater deficits.
2. Spending is a far better indicator of deficits, which in turn lead to greater overall debt.

It was budget cuts that balanced the budget under Clinton, not his tax increase. Don?t forget that there was also a tax cut (capital gains tax) during Clinton reign as well.
And under Bush we have seen two tax cuts (income and capital gains) and yet we are seeing record revenue.
They key to balancing the budget is to slow the rate of spending. We are still spending like crazy, a 7% increase last year. WAY to high. If we can get that figure down to the 4% level we can balance the budget and start working on the debt.

BTW: I don?t think Bush is talking about further tax cuts. I expect rates to stay where they are until 2010 when they are up for renewal. Stupidest thing the Republicans did was not make them permanent. Now Democrats in control can let them expire, which is a lot less painful politically than having to actually ?raise? taxes.

Did you also know the much talked about Bush income tax cuts only returned rates to their pre-Clinton level.

 

[Zebo]

7%? You wish. Republicans deserve to lose. Instead of smaller government federal spending has risen 45 percent during Bush's presidency, three times as fast as it did under Bill Clinton. This according to consrvative Heritage Foundation and these wern't entilements but discresionary for the most part. And it was not the chase for Osama either. Stupidest thing republicans did is become liberals.

 

[Jaskalas]

Not to mention the percentage that the top half of income earners pay in taxes is still the highest ever seen. The number of people not paying any taxes is also the highest but apparently we need more oppressive taxation to ?fix? our record revenue. The record levels of government expansion during the 1900?s are going to lead us to our downfall. If we don?t cut the fat, we?ll be welcomed into the neighborhood by the third world.

 

[bobdelt]

Originally posted by: techs
I sat down and figured it out. In 11 years I am taking the Social Security early retirement at age 62.
Here's how I figure it will go.
If we keep cutting taxes and borrowing money for the tax cuts we will at least get a little economic stimulus.
However, by 11 years from now we will have borrowed so much our lenders will be wary. Especially since we have such huge looming deficits in Social Security.
So I figure by the time I am 62 there will be so many people on Social Security, plus so many people within 10 years of retirement, plus so many kids who won't want to see their parents use up their savings before they leave it to their kids, or have to support their parents, that NO WAY WILL WE SEE SOCIAL SECURITY GO OUT OF BUSINESS. Its going to be the hugest, single issue group EVER in this country.
And it will be almost 40 percent of the entire population. Imagine that. Forty percent who will NOT vote for any candidate who will cut Social Security. Look at how the 10 percent of evangelicals have become such a force. Imagine 40 percent!! Plus that 40 percent will have 90 percent of the nations wealth.
So payroll taxes will go thru the roof.
And I will make out. But the people today who are screaming CUT TAXES are going to be taxed to death to pay for my retirement while they are going to be taxed to death paying off the national debt. And America will DO anything, including 50 barrel taxes on domestic oil to help pay for Social Security.
So CUT TAXES, CUT TAXES.
I am going to laugh all the way to the bank while the youth of America are royally screwed.

Looks like you put a lot of effort into that a got a lot of good real hard numbers....

or you just guessed and assumed stuff and made stuff up

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: conehead433
Didn't Bush already cut taxes for the rich and the oil companies as well. I personally haven't benefitted, but aren't their tax cuts supposed to help most of us by trickling down? Of course the way it really works is that the rich get richer and most of the rest oh us get trickled on.

You didn't benefit? Then that means that you don't make enough to pay any taxes in the first place so stfu about it. I got a great tax cut and I am by no means rich.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: bobdelt

Originally posted by: techs
I sat down and figured it out. In 11 years I am taking the Social Security early retirement at age 62.
Here's how I figure it will go.
If we keep cutting taxes and borrowing money for the tax cuts we will at least get a little economic stimulus.
However, by 11 years from now we will have borrowed so much our lenders will be wary. Especially since we have such huge looming deficits in Social Security.
So I figure by the time I am 62 there will be so many people on Social Security, plus so many people within 10 years of retirement, plus so many kids who won't want to see their parents use up their savings before they leave it to their kids, or have to support their parents, that NO WAY WILL WE SEE SOCIAL SECURITY GO OUT OF BUSINESS. Its going to be the hugest, single issue group EVER in this country.
And it will be almost 40 percent of the entire population. Imagine that. Forty percent who will NOT vote for any candidate who will cut Social Security. Look at how the 10 percent of evangelicals have become such a force. Imagine 40 percent!! Plus that 40 percent will have 90 percent of the nations wealth.
So payroll taxes will go thru the roof.
And I will make out. But the people today who are screaming CUT TAXES are going to be taxed to death to pay for my retirement while they are going to be taxed to death paying off the national debt. And America will DO anything, including 50 barrel taxes on domestic oil to help pay for Social Security.
So CUT TAXES, CUT TAXES.
I am going to laugh all the way to the bank while the youth of America are royally screwed.

Looks like you put a lot of effort into that a got a lot of good real hard numbers....

or you just guessed and assumed stuff and made stuff up

Some of it was speculation.
However, the fact that the US is rich enough to get thru the next 30-40 years without complete collapse means I get to live comfortably to a nice old age (I hope).
And anyone who is say 10 years old to about 40 years old will live a life of economic servitude to the baby boomers.
It serves them right. They whined and whined about paying taxes. And they got a charlatan to cut taxes and increase spending while saying "deficits don't matter".
Well, they don't. For me.
But for anyone under 40 it is an economic death sentence.
Maybe their children, if there is enough money to educate them, will have a decent chance at the American dream. But the coming economic hardships which are inevitable, will really screw a whole generation.
And the fact that we are so close to the huge deficits and in fact hastening their coming every day, means the Bush economic plan they so readily support is destroying their future.
But you know what? The un-educated generation who went along willingly and in fact enthusiastically are going to reap what they have sown.
And due to, well, sheer luck, despite being wiped out economically in the year after 9-11 due to a health problem, I lucked out. I played three VERY risky stocks. That went thru the roof.
Heck, even liberals have to love my borrow and spend plan. Within 10 years the military adventurism that this un-educated younger generation has embraced will be economically impossible. And future demagogues like Bush will not have the where withall to embark on wars of conquest, which are economically un-feasible given the realities of diminishing resources and the efficiency of any enemy armed by a populace fueled by nationalism.
"Plan for a new Amerian Century" is DEAD.

 

[Thump553]

I'm about the same age as the original poster. I still have one kid in college (and another that may go). My father's nursing home costs about $20k per month (private pay) and I have at least one child's wedding in the near future. Until my parents generation, it is highly unlikely I will ever be able to pay off my mortgage. My wife and I are self employed, and George Bush's tax relief certainly hasn't made it to us little guys.

And before anyone pipes up, my wife and I live very modest lifestyles. Our newest car has 130k miles on it, and we haven't taken a vacation in years.

I doubt I will ever be able to retire, which is certainly not my choice. Even if I choose to retire, I don't qualify for full Social Security until nearly age 70. techs your situation is pretty unique.

 

[ccbadd]

You didn't benefit? Then that means that you don't make enough to pay any taxes in the first place so stfu about it. I got a great tax cut and I am by no means rich.

Ditto that JD50!

 

[Zebo]

And anyone who is say 10 years old to about 40 years old will live a life of economic servitude to the baby boomers.
It serves them right. They whined and whined about paying taxes. And they got a charlatan to cut taxes and increase spending while saying "deficits don't matter".

Just the opposite. The baby boomers whined and whined about taxes and wanted everything too, heavy spending. That's whos in power these days. They are the irresponsible ones, hippys, commies and other self-interested scum who are nothing like their parents who grew up in depression, were frugal, savers, and loved America and FDR- hard work with a little charity.

GenX and Y is closer to your parents.

But for anyone under 40 it is an economic death sentence.

Nonsense. I've already told you how it will be done. Fleesing the minority of rich baby boomers and minority of high income earners. If you want the cash you better go to whos got it. Not $10 an hour workers you guys made when you put us in competition with the third world with open borders and free trade.

Incidently I've only payed SS taxes about 5 years of my 20 working year career (I don't work anymore in traditional sense) There are ways around it to include passive income, 403Bs etc I saw this coming a long time ago and refuse to participate. Screw you. I'm not paying after y'all runied America.

<<<No offense to anyone...Generalizing big time but it's closer to the mark than techs assertions little demographic group like X and Y's put us in this hole.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: dannybek

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: albatross
any collective scheme will eventually fail to an "us" against "them" situation.

I know Dave is always going on about a "revolution", but IMHO if there is a revolution in the US it will be young vs old.

I know techs isnt serious, but right now those under 35 are ALREADY SCREWED, and theres nothing that can really change that, other than drastically raising taxes now while drastically reducing spending at the same time(aint going to happen), or doing away with medicad/medicare(ain't going to happen).

Social Security is a relatively minor problem.

Medicad/Medicare is not and will bankrupt this nation/force younger workers to be slaves to the older generations.

Nah SS and Medicare/caid total out about $800 billion or about 1/3 of Federal budget outlay. That's a whole 2/3 of pie that will be looked at first before the revolution. 40% voting block is huge and thier sympathetic kids adds even more.

I think what will really happen, relising the temporay nature, i.e. once the baby bomber die off it's no longer a problem because of our low child birth rate, is passive income exemption will be removed. Also income caps will be removed like medicare has done. The first two hit a minority so it will have traction...And finally they may even increase the payroll tax to fund that 40% on SS and medical..

I agree with most of that.
The good news today is the Republicans are moving up in the Senate races.
Unlike with Clinton, having Bush in office guarantees with a Democratic House and Republican Senate that the there will be increases in spending and TAX CUTS.
Whee! I am doing great. The Spender In Chief Bush and the Republicans will now compete with the Democrats to see who can spend more money.
And Bush ain't gonna allow no tax increases. In fact, the Democrats can't do nothing about the TAX CUTS cause it will cost them votes.
TAX CUTS and SPENDING INCREASES.
My retirement is looking better and better.
And my young worker bees who are going to support me are going to have to work harder and harder for me.
I LOVE America!

Your plan could backfire. As anything can. Nothing when it comes to society can be predicted. It is possible that yes the people of my generation may get a spanking or a punch to the face. But after that vote in numbers. You see you may believe that your going to "discipline" the people my generation to become more politically active and less "WOOHH PARIS HILTON." But the truth be told this is not going to be discipline. This is like a intention punch to the face. And you're gonna drive a lot of people my generation mad. That it is possible they will take their frustrations out on November... or beat up a person your age and steal his/her money.

We can work out an compromise. How about we lower taxes for the middle class and working class and put a 50% tax raise on those making $500,000 to $1million, 70% tax raise on those making $1 million - $3 million, 80% tax raise for those making 3 million to 5 million and 90% tax raise on those making $5 million above. Not only will alleviate the SS and Medicaid problem but clamp down on corporate fraud.

Yes, let's punish those who actually are smart enough to have been successful in the world.