Oil: The other Iraq war...

Piano Man

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2000
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I can't believe MSNBC put this article up on its website. I bet the amount of heat they'll get from the gov and corporations will be huge. Anyways I thought it was a good read. There is no doubt in my mind that even if Iraq disarms completely, we will still go in for the oil.


Iraq and Oil article
 

freakflag

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2001
3,951
1
71
F the oil.
I'm pushin' for Hydrogen.
Let's see how they treat the U.S. when the petro $$ stops flowing into that rathole sand pit they call the middle east.
(I wonder what kinda performance you'd get with Hydrogen and a blower?)
 

Mani

Diamond Member
Aug 9, 2001
4,808
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This is ballsy in a time when every other news agency is scrambling to kiss the war effort's ass.
 

C'DaleRider

Guest
Jan 13, 2000
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I'm pushin' for Hydrogen.
Let's see how they treat the U.S. when the petro $$ stops flowing into that rathole sand pit they call the middle east.
You do know that the easiest place we can get hydrogen from right now is ........... gasoline. Though the most abundant element in the universe, hydrogen does not exist in large quantities on its own and extracting it requires using energy to get energy. There is no free hydrogen. They are experimenting with corn as an alternative source, but it's not going to well right now.

Hydrogen can be produced from gasoline and other fossil fuels but that process, while cleaner, still pollutes. The ultimate goal is to produce hydrogen from a nonpolluting source like wind, solar or nuclear power. The roadmap report noted that while hydrogen can also be produced from water using electrolyzers, currently this method is not as efficient or cost effective as using fossil fuels.

Then there is the problem of finding a safe way to store hydrogen in a fuel cell vehicle..........pure hydrogen is quite explosive. Makes gasoline look like water in comparison.


 

Tominator

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,559
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Originally posted by: Piano Man
I can't believe MSNBC put this article up on its website. I bet the amount of heat they'll get from the gov and corporations will be huge. Anyways I thought it was a good read. There is no doubt in my mind that even if Iraq disarms completely, we will still go in for the oil.


Iraq and Oil article

Every war is about something. Oil powers the world! If you completely ignore all other causes, your conclusion might be valid.

However to state that even if Iraq completely disarms, and my bet is as long as Sadamm holds the reins they will not, that we will go in anyway is plane stupid!
 

Balthazar

Golden Member
Apr 16, 2000
1,834
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Originally posted by: C'DaleRider
I'm pushin' for Hydrogen.
Let's see how they treat the U.S. when the petro $$ stops flowing into that rathole sand pit they call the middle east.
You do know that the easiest place we can get hydrogen from right now is ........... gasoline. Though the most abundant element in the universe, hydrogen does not exist in large quantities on its own and extracting it requires using energy to get energy. There is no free hydrogen. They are experimenting with corn as an alternative source, but it's not going to well right now.

Hydrogen can be produced from gasoline and other fossil fuels but that process, while cleaner, still pollutes. The ultimate goal is to produce hydrogen from a nonpolluting source like wind, solar or nuclear power. The roadmap report noted that while hydrogen can also be produced from water using electrolyzers, currently this method is not as efficient or cost effective as using fossil fuels.

Then there is the problem of finding a safe way to store hydrogen in a fuel cell vehicle..........pure hydrogen is quite explosive. Makes gasoline look like water in comparison.
Heh you do realize they do know where large quantities are right?
And that it requres energy to obtain OIL as well.
And that there are somre close-to-ready bits of technology that make it a LOT easier to extract Hydrogen.
And that there are also methods for storing it safely.

What that article on MSNBC doesn't tell you could fill a book.
 

josphII

Banned
Nov 24, 2001
1,490
0
0
Originally posted by: C'DaleRider
I'm pushin' for Hydrogen.
Let's see how they treat the U.S. when the petro $$ stops flowing into that rathole sand pit they call the middle east.
You do know that the easiest place we can get hydrogen from right now is ........... gasoline. Though the most abundant element in the universe, hydrogen does not exist in large quantities on its own and extracting it requires using energy to get energy. There is no free hydrogen. They are experimenting with corn as an alternative source, but it's not going to well right now.

Hydrogen can be produced from gasoline and other fossil fuels but that process, while cleaner, still pollutes. The ultimate goal is to produce hydrogen from a nonpolluting source like wind, solar or nuclear power. The roadmap report noted that while hydrogen can also be produced from water using electrolyzers, currently this method is not as efficient or cost effective as using fossil fuels.

Then there is the problem of finding a safe way to store hydrogen in a fuel cell vehicle..........pure hydrogen is quite explosive. Makes gasoline look like water in comparison.

total bull$hit. you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
Originally posted by: josphII
Originally posted by: C'DaleRider
I'm pushin' for Hydrogen.
Let's see how they treat the U.S. when the petro $$ stops flowing into that rathole sand pit they call the middle east.
You do know that the easiest place we can get hydrogen from right now is ........... gasoline. Though the most abundant element in the universe, hydrogen does not exist in large quantities on its own and extracting it requires using energy to get energy. There is no free hydrogen. They are experimenting with corn as an alternative source, but it's not going to well right now.

Hydrogen can be produced from gasoline and other fossil fuels but that process, while cleaner, still pollutes. The ultimate goal is to produce hydrogen from a nonpolluting source like wind, solar or nuclear power. The roadmap report noted that while hydrogen can also be produced from water using electrolyzers, currently this method is not as efficient or cost effective as using fossil fuels.

Then there is the problem of finding a safe way to store hydrogen in a fuel cell vehicle..........pure hydrogen is quite explosive. Makes gasoline look like water in comparison.

total bull$hit. you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about

josphII, Prove it, What C'DaleRider posted looks pretty accurate to me.


 

MinorityReport

Senior member
Jul 2, 2002
425
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This article is one of the best in recent times to come.

MSNBC is not an investigative journalist czar but they are hitting the nails in the right places.


President Bush may look like a war monger but I am sure he and the entire Govenment in power know 100000000 times better than you and me what the consequences of war with Iraq are.

They have handled this situation with "finesse" and with intense diplomatic/economic agendas with all nations and at the UN level. With such unchallenged military and economic might like US, I personally ( if I ever had the chance ) would never care for what others say and would boot UN straight out of the door. US is the lone superpower and it can show its power in many different ways.

War is never the solution to any problem ... but if our leaders decide that it is worth fighting for, I am 99% sure they are doing it in the greater interest of the Unites States. Have they been wrong in the past ? What were the consequences we normal citizens had to bear ? These are topics a democratic nation has to debate on.


All it comes down to is : How much are you ready to lose in order to gain the initiative ?

57,000 > Vietnam
60,000 > Koreas
250,000 > WW II
120,000 > WW I
3,000 > 9/11

And all those unknown ( correct me if I am wrong )












 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,466
1
76
Spoils of war + removing warmongering insano with weapons of mass destruction who pays for the killing of innocents = nitemare is happy

Iraq = 51st State = Petrovania
 

Pocatello

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 1999
9,754
2
76
Oil is certainly important. Russia has already signed a huge oil deal with Iraq, I presume Putin wants the deal intact even if Saddam falls. If we want Russia's approval in the war with Iraq, we probably have to work something out so that Russia won't lose too much. I have to agree with MSNBC with this view.

The United States is the largest consumer of oil in the world, and with Saudi Arabia, the largest producer, it has been able to ensure that oil prices remained relatively stable over the past 30 years. This co-dependency is strained by political and cultural differences. A U.S. occupation of Iraq, however, would leave Washington with enormous influence over the future of Iraq?s huge oil reserves. This may break Saudi Arabia?s hold on the world?s oil pricing.
 

Fausto

Elite Member
Nov 29, 2000
26,521
2
0
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: josphII
Originally posted by: C'DaleRider
I'm pushin' for Hydrogen.
Let's see how they treat the U.S. when the petro $$ stops flowing into that rathole sand pit they call the middle east.
You do know that the easiest place we can get hydrogen from right now is ........... gasoline. Though the most abundant element in the universe, hydrogen does not exist in large quantities on its own and extracting it requires using energy to get energy. There is no free hydrogen. They are experimenting with corn as an alternative source, but it's not going to well right now.

Hydrogen can be produced from gasoline and other fossil fuels but that process, while cleaner, still pollutes. The ultimate goal is to produce hydrogen from a nonpolluting source like wind, solar or nuclear power. The roadmap report noted that while hydrogen can also be produced from water using electrolyzers, currently this method is not as efficient or cost effective as using fossil fuels.

Then there is the problem of finding a safe way to store hydrogen in a fuel cell vehicle..........pure hydrogen is quite explosive. Makes gasoline look like water in comparison.

total bull$hit. you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about

josphII, Prove it, What C'DaleRider posted looks pretty accurate to me.
It is, josphII's just an idiot.


Everything you ever wanted to know about hydrogen.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
Originally posted by: Piano Man
I can't believe MSNBC put this article up on its website. I bet the amount of heat they'll get from the gov and corporations will be huge. Anyways I thought it was a good read. There is no doubt in my mind that even if Iraq disarms completely, we will still go in for the oil.


Iraq and Oil article
Aren't you a good little dissident. How trendy!
 
Aug 10, 2001
10,424
1
0
I used to get mad when people would say that a war with Iraq would be all about oil. But now I take the position that people are entitled to think whatever they want to think.
 

tweakmm

Lifer
May 28, 2001
18,436
3
0
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Aren't you a good little dissident. How trendy!
Actualy, I've always felt the trend was towards the blind following of authority. After all, Ashcroft says it's best.

 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
49,620
12,216
136
Originally posted by: Piano Man
I can't believe MSNBC put this article up on its website. I bet the amount of heat they'll get from the gov and corporations will be huge. Anyways I thought it was a good read. There is no doubt in my mind that even if Iraq disarms completely, we will still go in for the oil.


Iraq and Oil article
No doubt in mine either.

January, mark my words.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
Originally posted by: tweakmm
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Aren't you a good little dissident. How trendy!
Actualy, I've always felt the trend was towards the blind following of authority. After all, Ashcroft says it's best.
Nah, the "rebel without a cause" has always been a very "hip" position. Just look to Hollywood. Here's a recap of the last several months:

1. Bush is going to attack Iraq for oil!

He says he won't if Iraq follows the rules it agreed to.

2. Iraq will never agree! We're going to attack!

Iraq agrees.

3. Iraq agreed, but Bush is an evil oil man! We're going to attack!

Isn't it possible that maybe things will work out? Have a little faith. Why play the fearmonger?
 

Piano Man

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2000
3,370
0
76
Boberfett, if I were the trend, then this country would be a much different place. I'm definately not the norm, nor trendy. But you go ahead and think that.
 

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