Oil smoke point in practice

[noob25002]

Hello,

In doing research for different smoke points for oils, there is one point that is often overlooked, the method of cooking.

For oven baking, in a tray, with a paper sheet often at ~220 c/430f.
But this is the temperature of the air in the oven, not the oil.

What would the oil's temperature in this case, and how can I measure it?
The bottom part of what's cooking and the oil on it comes into contact with the paper/tray, so it could be hotter then the top?

So what oils or other replacements are safe for use in this case?

Thank you.

 

[Paperdoc]

When you place several items at room temperature into the oven at 220C, they all start out at room temp. Then as they acquire heat from the air in the oven, their temps rise also, and the rate of rise depends on several factors. But eventually all of those items come to the SAME temp as the air in the oven. So in choosing the oil type, you should assume it must be usable at the oven air temp, because the oil may well be exposed to that temp for long enough to reach that point.

If the oil film is on the inside of a cake pan full of batter, a large portion of the heat affecting the oil film comes though the cake pan, through the oil film, and is passed into the batter mass. There it heats that batter and is partially "consumed" in chemical reactions we call baking the cake. At some point we as bakers decide the cake is cooked enough and remove the entire thing from the oven. At that time the interior of the cake is probably about 100 C or lower, and the exterior surface of the cake in contact with the oil film is still well below the oven air temp. So in this situation the oil never gets up to the air temperature.

Consider instead having a bunch of french fries scattered over the surface of a flat pan with an oil film on it. Throw that in the 220 C oven and MOST of the oil film is NOT in contact with the fries, although it is contacting the pan AND has a lot of it in direct contact with the hot air over the pan. That oil film will heat up faster, and get very close to the 220 C temperature of the air within a modest time frame. We still will limit the time of exposure to these conditions and remove the cooked french fries. But if you did not - if you forgot and left them for an hour or two and got super-crispy junk fries - the oil you used would get all the way to 220 C, so it better be able to withstand that.

 

[dullard]

Unless you have some sort of chemical reaction going on, the objects in the oven will be at or below the air temperature of the oven. Like Paperdoc said the longer it is in the oven the closer that it will be to the oven's air temperature.

You certainly could measure this with an oven thermometer (ideally with an external reader so you don't have to open the oven to see the temperature). Something like this can be found at any kitchen store: https://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/st...-in-black/1061576896?keyword=oven-thermometer

I would say the bigger issue that your ignoring is that the oven does not have just one temperature. There are colder sections of the oven and hotter sections. Use the oven thermometer to find the hot areas in your oven (usually near the bottom of the oven). You can also calibrate your oven this way if it is too hot or too cold overall (most ovens have a simple adjustment described in the manual). Also the oven air itself in any one section will fluctuate up and down quite a bit. Smooth that all out by putting in a large brick, heavy piece of metal, or similar object that will help the oven maintain a constant temperature.

But, I'm really confused. What dish are you making where you need to bake something in oil? That sounds like it will just lead to soggy greasy food.

 

[Captante]

Why does the exact temp of the oil even matter? Just curious or some kind of lame science project?



Also I'm fairly certain there has already been more then sufficient "research" along those lines... sounds like a big waste of time.

 

[noob25002]

Unless you have some sort of chemical reaction going on, the objects in the oven will be at or below the air temperature of the oven. Like Paperdoc said the longer it is in the oven the closer that it will be to the oven's air temperature.

You certainly could measure this with an oven thermometer (ideally with an external reader so you don't have to open the oven to see the temperature). Something like this can be found at any kitchen store: https://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/st...-in-black/1061576896?keyword=oven-thermometer

I would say the bigger issue that your ignoring is that the oven does not have just one temperature. There are colder sections of the oven and hotter sections. Use the oven thermometer to find the hot areas in your oven (usually near the bottom of the oven). You can also calibrate your oven this way if it is too hot or too cold overall (most ovens have a simple adjustment described in the manual). Also the oven air itself in any one section will fluctuate up and down quite a bit. Smooth that all out by putting in a large brick, heavy piece of metal, or similar object that will help the oven maintain a constant temperature.

But, I'm really confused. What dish are you making where you need to bake something in oil? That sounds like it will just lead to soggy greasy food.

I do have a probe and placed the tip about half an inch on the surface (parallel) of what's cooking without puncturing it, and yes, the temperature is under 100 degrees celsius.

A lot of dishes have oil as an ingredient, either on the surface (drizzle) or in the side dish mix, it's not soaked in oil. From what I read online the temperature of the oil should be under it's smoke point.