Oil sludge.... what went wrong?

[debian0001]

I have a 2012 Buick Regal.

As far as I know, it requires synthetic or partial synthetic.

I got an oil change after 5000 miles and it was full synthetic at the shop I always go to.

Flash forward about 5,000 miles, I go to Midas near me in the city and I got what I thought was full synthetic.

Car starts to die right away when turning on and putting it into drive. After it dies, I would start it up again and everything seemed fine.

I just went to get an oil change today since it was about 5000 miles and went BACK to the place I always go to and they informed me my oil filter and engine had sludge. I saw the filter and it indeed had a shit load of sludge.

So I'm a little skeptical that Midas actually gave me full synthetic? I had to pay an extra 50 bucks to flush my engine out... I'm a little pissed and almost want to start doing oil changes myself. The place I usually go to has been great for my previous car and current car. I really hope they are fucking with me...

 

[Brian Stirling]

I can't imagine ANY engine oil turning to sludge in 5000 miles. It almost sounds like it got contaminated perhaps with water or engine coolant. What color was the sludge?


Brian

 

[debian0001]

It was just pure black. I didn't see any color. I guess I should monitor it... how can I make sure? Check the oil dip stick?

 

[jlee]

If anything, it sounds like the oil wasn't actually changed the last time...even dino oil wouldn't be that bad at 5k.

 

[tortillasoup]

If anything, it sounds like the oil wasn't actually changed the last time...even dino oil wouldn't be that bad at 5k.

exactly, either that or your oil and coolant are mixing together or some other fuel oil unholy union are occurring somehow.

 

[BUTCH1]

If anything, it sounds like the oil wasn't actually changed the last time...even dino oil wouldn't be that bad at 5k.

Yea, I run Dino or semi on my GM V6 and the OLM is usually around 5K when I'm at 10% life so that's when I do a change, it's dark but nowhere near the point where it might sludge. OP ALWAYS check your dip-stick when you have a change, I like to let the car rest overnight to get an accurate reading. I had the dealer do oil changes for the warranty period so if there was ever any engine issue I had the receipts to back up that it was being serviced on time. Once they over-filled it by a full quart so I had to bring it back. As mentioned above this is a VERY unusual situation to occur, specially on a 3yr old car.

 

[KentState]

Should have saved a sample of the oil. Blackstone only charges $25 to an analysis on the oil. May want to do that with the next change to see if anything odd is going on.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

 

[Art&Science]

Classic scam with quick-change oil places.

Oh, you didn't come to us last time? Well just look at your filter, it's full of sludge (that we put there when you weren't looking and is actually axle grease). You need to pay us MORE to "flush" your engine (this is typically a horrible idea) and next time you better come to us so that "other" guy doesn't screw you again!

 

[Meghan54]

Classic scam with quick-change oil places.

Oh, you didn't come to us last time? Well just look at your filter, it's full of sludge (that we put there when you weren't looking and is actually axle grease). You need to pay us MORE to "flush" your engine (this is typically a horrible idea) and next time you better come to us so that "other" guy doesn't screw you again!

That's what I was leaning towards upon reading the OP. How can the engine sludge that fast with a missed oil change that sludge would come out the filter? At worst, it'd more likely do much of nothing other than piss poor lubrication, not to mention potentially clogging the filter.

Another reason I do my own.

 

[steppinthrax]

In the time I've owned all my vehicles (almost 200K on each). I have a 1999 Camry with 140K on it now. I've gone to a oil change place maybe 3 - 4 times in my life!!!

I wouldn't trust these places as far as I can throw them.

If you look carefully at what they do, it's a coordinated processes. When you're care pulls into the bay someone removes the plug and drains all the oil, removes you filter. He/she then calls out to someone overhead that this is done. Then that person adds oil.

All it takes is the guy underneath forgetting to install your plug or over torquing it. There is just so much to go wrong. The guy one top doesn't fill it full or doesn't fill it at all, air in the line etc....

These people have maybe a H.S. diploma or students, they don't give a shit and yes they run scams. There was a dateline NBC special a while back where they came in for a fuel filter change and it was never changed.

Also the oil and filter they put in is cut-rate bottom of the barrel. They buy in bulk, whatever is acceptable.

 

[Pacfanweb]

If anything, it sounds like the oil wasn't actually changed the last time...even dino oil wouldn't be that bad at 5k.

Yep, sounds like it hasn't been changed. That's the main thing that will cause sludge. If it was coolant in the oil, it'd look like chocolate milk.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Classic scam with quick-change oil places.

Oh, you didn't come to us last time? Well just look at your filter, it's full of sludge (that we put there when you weren't looking and is actually axle grease). You need to pay us MORE to "flush" your engine (this is typically a horrible idea) and next time you better come to us so that "other" guy doesn't screw you again!

I'd have it changed again in about a thousand miles....somewhere else. If it's still sludgey, I'd consider getting rid of the car.

IMO, if the engine is sludged up, there's no coming back from that. All a flush will do is loosen the sludge and make it worse.

At this point, I'd be hoping you got scammed. That's a better alternative to the engine actually being sludged.

Really, the only way it gets sludged that badly is by not changing the oil....for a LONG time.

Even dino oil that is changed at 10k won't be looking like that too soon.

 

[Torn Mind]

I suspect that you've been played.


Buy jack stands, torque wrench, properly sized socket. Find out how to get to the drain bolt and filter. Learn the jack points of your vehicle to put the jack stand under while you lift up the car with a scissor jack. Or stack a bunch of 2x4s.

I know this is a GM vehicle, so it probably is buried in an inconvenient place, but still worth learning.

Tools might set you back some money, but you'll never be scammed by a shop again and you can choose what to put in there.

 

[LTC8K6]

If the first place put full synthetic in, and the Midas place didn't change the oil, then you'd have 10K on full synthetic.

That should be fine. The oil should not be black as tar, and there should not be any sludge.

However, a 2012 Regal could have the 4 cylinder turbo, which would be harder on the oil.

 

[Raizinman]

I'm on retainer with two major quick oil change shops. When they screw up they call me in. I've seen the wrong fluids put in the wrong places, wrong filters, a car that fell into the pit, and of course loose drain plugs. I would never take my car to any of these quick oil change shops. For people who can't do oil changes themselves, I always recommend to return to the dealer or if that is not possible to take a marker and initial the oil filter (to make sure they change the filter) and stand as near the car as possible or at the window to make sure they actually change the filter and use the correct oil. Always make sure to check the oil level when you leave. Don't assume it is full as many times it is not.

 

[WackyDan]

This is why I change my own fucking oil. I realize not everyone has a place to change their oil but still, even when I did use oil change places I'd stand out in front of the bay and watch the oil drain out and watch the old and new filter being swapped out.

Who fucked up my drain pan plugs the most? The dealers, not the quick change places. All my vehicles now have Fumoto drain plugs. Takes a bit longer to drain, but less mess overall.

 

[Pacfanweb]

I'm on retainer with two major quick oil change shops. When they screw up they call me in. I've seen the wrong fluids put in the wrong places, wrong filters, a car that fell into the pit, and of course loose drain plugs. I would never take my car to any of these quick oil change shops. For people who can't do oil changes themselves, I always recommend to return to the dealer or if that is not possible to take a marker and initial the oil filter (to make sure they change the filter) and stand as near the car as possible or at the window to make sure they actually change the filter and use the correct oil. Always make sure to check the oil level when you leave. Don't assume it is full as many times it is not.

Ironic thing about the "going back to the dealer" advice is: They are usually the same price or cheaper for oil changes, and if there's anything wrong they at least are more experienced in your brand of car and/or have actual mechanics nearby who can come check if they see something wrong.

 

[vshah]

yeah, when I don't have the time to do it myself, I buy my preferred synthetic oil & filter and take it to my local honda dealership. they charge me $15 bucks & check my brake pads and tire pressures while they're at it, and fill up my windshield washer fluid.

 

[Raizinman]

This is why I change my own fucking oil. I realize not everyone has a place to change their oil but still, even when I did use oil change places I'd stand out in front of the bay and watch the oil drain out and watch the old and new filter being swapped out.

Who fucked up my drain pan plugs the most? The dealers, not the quick change places. All my vehicles now have Fumoto drain plugs. Takes a bit longer to drain, but less mess overall.

The Fumoto valve is not the cure all for oil changes. I decided against it for many reasons.

1) Driving over a branch or some other type of debris can easily catch on this brass valve and pull it out. There have been occurrences where low clearance cars have broken this valve over something as simple as a speed bump. The threads are brass, not steel.
2) With this valve screwed into the oil pan it raises the drain level. Meaning that there could easily be 3 or 4 tablespoons or more of old oil left in the oil pan or some very small debris/sludge.
3) Many cars have their oil drain plug at a slight angle which moves this valve lower than the oil pan making it more susceptible to hitting something.
4) Many cars do not have proper access when installing this valve and require a one inch or longer adapter, which makes this valve more susceptible to breaking off, hitting against something, or leaking.
5) Oil changes take longer because the restriction of this valve causes the oil to drain slower.

The bottom line is that for $30, I don’t really see this as an advantage. I don’t find it that difficult to get out a wrench and remove the oil drain plug. For that matter, I always use a Gold Plug (Magnetic Drain Plug) and believe that using a magnetic drain plug is more important than using a Fumoto valve.

 

[Brian Stirling]

I prefer to change the oil myself but sometimes I can't and go to an oil change place. Living in an apartment with rules against working on your car I have to wait until after 6PM Sunday when they are sure not to be there.

Doing you own oil changes gives you piece of mind by tracking the performance of the oil and knowing how your engine is running. I typically use Mobil-1 5W-20 and the Ford oil filter my Focus requires and the combined cost is less than $30 to do the change. I take the opportunity to rotate the tires and check the brakes etc.


Brian

 

[debian0001]

Starting to think I got scammed too... sucks, I have been going to this place for years for my old car. Would rather do it myself but I live in Chicago and don't have a garage :'(

 

[gururu2]

so you had sludge immediately after the Midas touch? Could be they used something that released some built up sludge like a different kind of synthetic. I highly doubt that they added sludge or something that congealed that fast.

 

[Murloc]

Ironic thing about the "going back to the dealer" advice is: They are usually the same price or cheaper for oil changes, and if there's anything wrong they at least are more experienced in your brand of car and/or have actual mechanics nearby who can come check if they see something wrong.

I guess it's also the fact that they work on new cars under warranty (which have to be brought there to maintain the warranty), so they can't screw up too often due to incompetence because the mother companies care about their reputation and money if their dealers break stuff.

 

[boomerang]

I've gone the quick oil change route twice in my lifetime and I should have learned my lesson the first time. The first time it was in the dead of winter and I only had a carport. I got into an argument with the guy through my window about the weight of oil to put in the car. Despite the manufacturer wanting 5W-30 in the car, the guy wanted to put in 10W-40. He finally backed down when I asked him where he got his mechanical engineering degree from.

The second time (different place) they had 5 quarts and a filter advertised on their sign out front for like $14.95. I don't remember the exact price and yes, this was a number of years ago. It was a Valvoline branded quick oil change.

I pull in and tell him I want the special advertised. Just oil and filter no topping off of other fluids, no filters, nothing but oil and filter. He asks me, "so you want Valvoline"? I say yes. He asks me again a few minutes later, I say yes. The bill is like $23.95. I'm kinda hot at this point and I ask him how did your special go from $14.95 to $23.95? He tells me I said I wanted Valvoline.

That's the last time he ever saw me and the last time I'll do quick oil change. Fortunately my cars so far of late have come with free oil changes for the life of the lease but that is changing. Still, I'll be going to the dealer for my oil changes. I've reached a point in my life where I'm no longer interested in changing my own oil. I never thought it would happen but it has.

 

[C1]

Been driv'n for long long time/many cars.

- Stay away from independents if you dont want to incur damage (eg, stripped drain plug although a dealer is not an absolute guarantee either).

On the other hand, the issue with dealers is that they also over torque (besides drain plugs, includes wheel lugs too plus they use bulk oil - most likely purchased in 55 gal drums). Toyota dealer oil changes began to result in noticeable shellac coating of the dip stick. Then in the newspapers, there were postings about Toyota engine oil gallies becoming clogged resulting in early engine damage. (The implication in the articles was that the gallies were too small.)

After switching to doing my own oil changes, there are absolutely no issues about oil. My analysis regarding the dealer oils is that the shellac was the result of the oil breaking down (because of additives and/or heat) resulting in deposits. Without doubt the oil used by dealer was substandard or even defective.

This whole thing reminds me about the some years back reported issue of excessive lead found in the water of water drinking fountains (because of the large amount of lead based solder used in manufacture of the copper helix used for water cooling inside the fountains). The fountains get changed out and then the test for public reporting is conducted, the result being that "no problems were found". Meanwhile, you're the one stuck impacted from drinking from the employer's fountains over the many past years. (Obviously no testing is to be done for that.)


PS: It is really nice to know that when I attempt to change oil (or rotate my tires), that no threads will be stripped and that I'll easily be able to remove the necessary parts. Also, remember to use the next heavier weight oil as the engine wears (eg, not 0 -20w in an engine with 80K miles on it; dealers wont do that & in hot weather you may thus be driving around with insufficient oil pressure). It is quite evident that the decision is to throw the cost of engine wear to the consumer for the supposed wider good of increased fleet fuel mileage.