I used to buy sythetic blend oil to do my oil changes, I always assumed that it was somewhere near a 50/50 blend. More and more I've heard that there isn't very much synthetic oil in the synthetic blends, but no where have I seen what the exact ratio is. So today I bought 2 quarts of full synthetic and 3 quarts of conventional. My car takes 5.5 quarts, I had a half quart of synthetic blend left over. What would you guys recommend? I was thinking I'd just buy 3 full synthetic and 3 conventional quarts and just do a 50/50 blend when I fill the car up. The difference in cost is about $5 more by buying seperate full synthetic and conventional quarts over synthetic blend. Do you think it is worth it? Does anyone know what the percentage of synthetic is in the blend oils? The car is a 99 Sable station wagon with the Duratech (24valve 200hp) 3.0 litre V6 if that matters. It has about 68,000 miles on it. I don't drive hard, but I do drive it everyday to work and back, about 20 miles one way. The car has to be dependable for me and I'd like to drive it into the ground, I have no desire to buy anything else in the forseeable future. Thanks.
Oil question
- Thread starter SlowSpyder
- Start date
Arkaign
Lifer
- Oct 27, 2006
- 20,736
- 1,379
- 126
Step one, paragraphs are your friend! 
Anyhow, mixing oil is no big deal. Your motor isn't very old, so if you are wanting a better product (and it seems you are), you'd be better off doing this :
(A)- Go ahead and start using Amsoil, Royal Purple, or any other premium paraffin synthetic. If you do your own changes already, this shouldn't be too big a deal, and will probably cost you $12-$15/quart. Availability is the biggest handicap here, as it's not commonly available at major retailers. The stuff is awesome.
(B)- Go ahead and start using a decent full synthetic. The truth of the matter is that even 'full' synthetics from major brands like Castrol and Mobil, are usually not true full synthetics. The reasons are complex, but it's basically the result of Castrol IIRC, using a different process to approximate a full synthetic using conventional oil elements, and then they got sued for it, but they won. So everyone else pretty much started doing the same thing since it was so much cheaper to make that way. There are some notable exceptions to this, but anyway. Syntec, Mobil 1, etc from the major brands will be pretty darn good, and a lot better than the blends with pure conventional oil mixed with this 'semi-syn' stuff.
Because you say you want to 'drive it into the ground', I recommend one of the above options. Full syn, and particularly the paraffin oils, do not carbonize near to the same degree as conventional or blend stuff. This is the ashy black residue that you see when you remove the oil cap from pretty much any 100k+ mileage vehicle. OTOH, our family had a F250 from the very early 1980s that my dad bought new, and he ran Mobil 1 in it for the life of the truck. Not only did the motor last over half a million miles with ease, after it finally died, our mechanic pulled the head off, and was shocked that the internals still looked new inside, after 20 years of hard use. The only reason that truck isn't still running is that my brother cracked the radiator and it severely overheated in a Texas summer.
A lot of people will logically tell you that modern dino oil is fine, and that the motor will probably outlast the car anyway. There's an element of truth to that, it's likely that your transmission will fail, a head might crack (aluminum isn't made for the long haul), or any other number of pretty serious things will occur during the life of your vehicle before the motor itself comes apart. The way I look at it is this. If your motor is still pretty much mint because you maintained the oil changes with regularity and with good oil, then it's a lot easier to drop a few hundred bucks or whatever into fixing a serious issue. If the thing is ticking/pinging, having compression problems, etc, then it's a lot harder to justify fixing, and it's time to junk it and move on (after getting it checked out of course).
And finally, the cost issue. Over 5,000 miles (a decent interval for full-syn oil changes, maybe a little on the safe side but hey), you're going to be using 200 gallons of fuel if you average 25mpg. That's $800 in gas alone. So the difference between $72 for 6 quarts of paraffin, $36 for 6 quarts of full syn, and $20? for 6 quarts of cheaper stuff doesn't make a big impact over the long haul. I'd rather drop the extra bucks on some quality oil, and have that extra peace of mind.
Do not forget to keep your cooling system working perfectly. Inspect your radiator hoses and fluid regularly, and keep an eye on temps. Combine this with making sure your timing belt is serviced during the proper intervals, and keeping your transmission fluid changed, and there's no reason that car won't make it to 250k miles or beyond. Granted, you may run into general wear and tear issues on bearings, shocks, brakes, etc, but those are relatively minor.
Anyhow, mixing oil is no big deal. Your motor isn't very old, so if you are wanting a better product (and it seems you are), you'd be better off doing this :
(A)- Go ahead and start using Amsoil, Royal Purple, or any other premium paraffin synthetic. If you do your own changes already, this shouldn't be too big a deal, and will probably cost you $12-$15/quart. Availability is the biggest handicap here, as it's not commonly available at major retailers. The stuff is awesome.
(B)- Go ahead and start using a decent full synthetic. The truth of the matter is that even 'full' synthetics from major brands like Castrol and Mobil, are usually not true full synthetics. The reasons are complex, but it's basically the result of Castrol IIRC, using a different process to approximate a full synthetic using conventional oil elements, and then they got sued for it, but they won. So everyone else pretty much started doing the same thing since it was so much cheaper to make that way. There are some notable exceptions to this, but anyway. Syntec, Mobil 1, etc from the major brands will be pretty darn good, and a lot better than the blends with pure conventional oil mixed with this 'semi-syn' stuff.
Because you say you want to 'drive it into the ground', I recommend one of the above options. Full syn, and particularly the paraffin oils, do not carbonize near to the same degree as conventional or blend stuff. This is the ashy black residue that you see when you remove the oil cap from pretty much any 100k+ mileage vehicle. OTOH, our family had a F250 from the very early 1980s that my dad bought new, and he ran Mobil 1 in it for the life of the truck. Not only did the motor last over half a million miles with ease, after it finally died, our mechanic pulled the head off, and was shocked that the internals still looked new inside, after 20 years of hard use. The only reason that truck isn't still running is that my brother cracked the radiator and it severely overheated in a Texas summer.
A lot of people will logically tell you that modern dino oil is fine, and that the motor will probably outlast the car anyway. There's an element of truth to that, it's likely that your transmission will fail, a head might crack (aluminum isn't made for the long haul), or any other number of pretty serious things will occur during the life of your vehicle before the motor itself comes apart. The way I look at it is this. If your motor is still pretty much mint because you maintained the oil changes with regularity and with good oil, then it's a lot easier to drop a few hundred bucks or whatever into fixing a serious issue. If the thing is ticking/pinging, having compression problems, etc, then it's a lot harder to justify fixing, and it's time to junk it and move on (after getting it checked out of course).
And finally, the cost issue. Over 5,000 miles (a decent interval for full-syn oil changes, maybe a little on the safe side but hey), you're going to be using 200 gallons of fuel if you average 25mpg. That's $800 in gas alone. So the difference between $72 for 6 quarts of paraffin, $36 for 6 quarts of full syn, and $20? for 6 quarts of cheaper stuff doesn't make a big impact over the long haul. I'd rather drop the extra bucks on some quality oil, and have that extra peace of mind.
Do not forget to keep your cooling system working perfectly. Inspect your radiator hoses and fluid regularly, and keep an eye on temps. Combine this with making sure your timing belt is serviced during the proper intervals, and keeping your transmission fluid changed, and there's no reason that car won't make it to 250k miles or beyond. Granted, you may run into general wear and tear issues on bearings, shocks, brakes, etc, but those are relatively minor.
LTC8K6
Lifer
- Mar 10, 2004
- 28,520
- 1,575
- 126
Coincidence?
Your engine just broke in?
His is long since broken in.
Ford TSB recommending switch to 5W-20 oil for many older engines:
http://www.diesel-dave.com/tsb/files/t20109.pdf
Newer engines already specify 5W-20.
Your engine just broke in?
His is long since broken in.
Ford TSB recommending switch to 5W-20 oil for many older engines:
http://www.diesel-dave.com/tsb/files/t20109.pdf
Newer engines already specify 5W-20.
Just like how Food and drinks work, if it contains under a certian amount it doesn't have to be reported on the ingrediants. It's stupid, I am paying for it I want to know what the hell is in it.
How many engines have made it over 200k before anyone started using synthetic? look at how many diesel engines out there don't use synthetic and look how long they last. It's all about preventive maintence, syn oil allows people to be slightly lazier to a degree on intervals.
And what is considered long haul for aluminum? How many heads out there since the early 90's are alum not to mention blocks that are well over 200k miles? If a car isn't overheated I can't see a alum head cracking, maybe warping just like an iron head.
Arkaign
Lifer
- Oct 27, 2006
- 20,736
- 1,379
- 126
Plenty of people made it to 200k+ without synthetic.
The point is, the cost of operating on the superior synthetic is only marginal when considering the cost of fuel and other maintenance. Combine it with the longer change interval, and you probably see less than 1% difference annually to operate on synthetic vs. conventional. You get the extra peace of mind, if that matters. It's not crucial by any means, it's more important to have a good maintenance regimen than to use any specific product. Diesels run a lot cooler than gasoline-powered motors for fundamental engineering reasons, and also typically run at notably lower RPM as well. There's no discounting the great advantages to such setups, but it's sort of an apples/oranges example that doesn't prove anything about oil. I would fully expect diesel motors that used synthetic for their entire lifespan to outlast the same setup on conventional oil. There's no denying that synthetic oil carbonizes much less, and leaves less sludge/ash in the motor.
I've seen heads wear out more on the aluminum side than on the cast side, as any engine operates, it heats up, and of course it cools down afterwards. Aluminum is more sensitive to this cycle, and no matter how you look at it, will not last as long as a decent cast product. Does this matter to most people? Not really. But if you're wanting to run a motor with an aluminum head for as long as possible, you're going to want the temperatures to be as low as possible. Moving to synthetic noticeably dropped my operating temperatures on my 2.0 Duratec, so it would seem to apply as well to that 3.0 variant.
Originally posted by: Arkaign
Step one, paragraphs are your friend!
Anyhow, mixing oil is no big deal. Your motor isn't very old, so if you are wanting a better product (and it seems you are), you'd be better off doing this :
(A)- Go ahead and start using Amsoil, Royal Purple, or any other premium paraffin synthetic. If you do your own changes already, this shouldn't be too big a deal, and will probably cost you $12-$15/quart. Availability is the biggest handicap here, as it's not commonly available at major retailers. The stuff is awesome.
(B)- Go ahead and start using a decent full synthetic. The truth of the matter is that even 'full' synthetics from major brands like Castrol and Mobil, are usually not true full synthetics. The reasons are complex, but it's basically the result of Castrol IIRC, using a different process to approximate a full synthetic using conventional oil elements, and then they got sued for it, but they won. So everyone else pretty much started doing the same thing since it was so much cheaper to make that way. There are some notable exceptions to this, but anyway. Syntec, Mobil 1, etc from the major brands will be pretty darn good, and a lot better than the blends with pure conventional oil mixed with this 'semi-syn' stuff.
Because you say you want to 'drive it into the ground', I recommend one of the above options. Full syn, and particularly the paraffin oils, do not carbonize near to the same degree as conventional or blend stuff. This is the ashy black residue that you see when you remove the oil cap from pretty much any 100k+ mileage vehicle. OTOH, our family had a F250 from the very early 1980s that my dad bought new, and he ran Mobil 1 in it for the life of the truck. Not only did the motor last over half a million miles with ease, after it finally died, our mechanic pulled the head off, and was shocked that the internals still looked new inside, after 20 years of hard use. The only reason that truck isn't still running is that my brother cracked the radiator and it severely overheated in a Texas summer.
A lot of people will logically tell you that modern dino oil is fine, and that the motor will probably outlast the car anyway. There's an element of truth to that, it's likely that your transmission will fail, a head might crack (aluminum isn't made for the long haul), or any other number of pretty serious things will occur during the life of your vehicle before the motor itself comes apart. The way I look at it is this. If your motor is still pretty much mint because you maintained the oil changes with regularity and with good oil, then it's a lot easier to drop a few hundred bucks or whatever into fixing a serious issue. If the thing is ticking/pinging, having compression problems, etc, then it's a lot harder to justify fixing, and it's time to junk it and move on (after getting it checked out of course).
And finally, the cost issue. Over 5,000 miles (a decent interval for full-syn oil changes, maybe a little on the safe side but hey), you're going to be using 200 gallons of fuel if you average 25mpg. That's $800 in gas alone. So the difference between $72 for 6 quarts of paraffin, $36 for 6 quarts of full syn, and $20? for 6 quarts of cheaper stuff doesn't make a big impact over the long haul. I'd rather drop the extra bucks on some quality oil, and have that extra peace of mind.
Do not forget to keep your cooling system working perfectly. Inspect your radiator hoses and fluid regularly, and keep an eye on temps. Combine this with making sure your timing belt is serviced during the proper intervals, and keeping your transmission fluid changed, and there's no reason that car won't make it to 250k miles or beyond. Granted, you may run into general wear and tear issues on bearings, shocks, brakes, etc, but those are relatively minor.
It's only about 220 words.
I think I'm going to stick with oil I can get at Autozone. I change my oil pretty regularly, pretty much every 3500 miles. I'm sure I could go longer, especially if I am using a few quarts of synthetic oil, but it makes me feel better to do it around 3500 miles.
As others have mentioned, I don't think that the brand or kind of oil you use is what necessarily determines how much longevity you'll get out of your car, but keeping up with regular maintenance is probably more important... at least I would think it is. I more or less just want to know what people think on synthetic blend brand oils vs. using your own mix of full synthetic (as in Syntec, Penzoil synthetic, etc... not Amsoil type synthetic) mixed with conventional oil. Cost is slightly higher for me to mix the full synthetic with conventional vs. buying synthetic blends.
Under the hood it says 5W-30 is recommended. I went with 10W-30 figuring a little extra wieght can't hurt in the warm months, I'll use 5W-30 in winter. My Eclipse recommends 5W-30 if I remember right, but it's pretty well accepted in the DSM world that heavier wieght oils work much better in that engine, I run 20W-50 in that car year long.
Arkaign
Lifer
- Oct 27, 2006
- 20,736
- 1,379
- 126
Coincidence is certainly within the realm of possibility. Maybe the stock oil that Ford put in was a bad batch, or had some kind of additive that caused my issues. All I can tell you is that it wasn't a 'break-in' type of situation, as that would have taken place over a period of time, not instantly. From the time I picked it up with less than 10 miles on the clock, the motor was a ticky-tockety noisy little sucker. You could really hear the noises from the crankcase clearly from outside the car, and it was still noticeable inside when idling. This didn't change all the way to the 3,000 mile mark, no better and no worse. I checked the oil weekly to make sure it was filled to the exact operating margin.
Changed the oil just over 3k miles, and it was a world of difference. The temperature gauge, which stayed right in the center of the dial, now sits several degrees to the left, even as the ambient temperatures here in Texas have risen. But the largest difference is the noise. From inside the car, instead of being able to hear the motor tick along at idle, is almost utterly silent, aside from the very subtle vibration that you get from any running vehicle, almost imperceptible. From outside the vehicle, the ticky noise has been replaced by a dull hum. Truly a massive change.
Same oil weight used.
Unless your oil pressure is low I wouldn't go with a heavier viscosity. Tolerences among other things are alot different in newer engines where chaing the weight by 5 or even 10 can cause slow starvation to the top end or even the crank/rod bearings.
Arkaign- I know diesels run cooler, but the pressure and acid that diesel oil see's is alot greater than gas engine oil. I know how much Syn helps in long change intervals like axles and transmissions and because it is alot more "slicker" can reduce heat in axles but I don't get why more semi's/dump trucks/ basically anything that uses a large diesel engine hasn't adopted it in the industry yet. That just makes me worry sometimes. Oil is put to great stress in a diesel engine.
I don't want to get into the head thing....we both could be here for awhile
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