Oil & Gas thread:12-17-08 OPEC & non-members agree to largest reduction in history 7 percent

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
12-31-08 Oil ends year below $40 after high of $147

12-30-08 Gas prices rise as oil remains under $40

No reasons given yet other than they can.

12-29-08 Oil jumps past $40 on Gaza conflict, here we go with the war excuses again.

12-26-08 Oil jumps back past $37

Looks like many stations see what's coming and got a head start with 30 cent jump

12-24-08 Oil drops 9% in biggest one day drop ever to $35

Gas prices rise 30 cents for no apparent reason from $1.50 to $1.80

Especially since oil and gas inventories are extremely high.

12-23 February holding at $39

12-19 February oil $42 and rising

12-18 January oil $36

12-17-2008 OPEC & non-members agree to largest reduction in history.

2.6 million barrels / 7 percent.

12-16-2008 Gas prices rise as 45 mil barrels sit in tankers at sea

12-15-2008 Gas prices break streak as oil jumps to over $49

12-12 Oil drops back $5 on failed Auto bailout

12-11 Oil surges 12% back to above $49 and rising
Looks like we won't quite get to $1 so changing thread title

12-10 Oil jumps 8% on Saudi and Russian cuts

Expect $200 $10 with rationing

12-8 GM "We have proliferated our brands and dealer network to the point where we lost adequate focus on the core U.S. market," the ad said. "We also biased our product mix toward pick-up trucks and SUVs."

12-7 OPEC head says get ready for a big surprise

12-4 Oil slides under $44. Supply & Demand fools are trying to say people have stopped driving

11-29 In last minute fast one, Bush gives cheap National parks leases to his oil buds to drill for oil and gas.

11-24 Oil up nine percent over $55 on???

I'm leaving it ??? because the Supply and Demand pundits swear it is that.

Obviously they are proven so wrong it hurts.

I call it imaginary Supply and Demand.

11-23 Oil futures rise over $50 on Obama Economic team.

Wow, he's already responsible for oil going up :shocked:

11-19 Russia threatens to cut off bulk of production

Russian oil firms may cut output if unprofitable

11-18 Oil prices drop close to $50

11-17 Oil falls below $55

Oil Tankers sitting full in Gulf of Mexico, Pirates hijacking tankers of Africa coast.

11-11 Oil drops back below $60

How long will it last?

11-9 Oil jumps $5, IEA predicts oil over $200

11-8 No oil for asphalt cause problems nationwide

10-20 Exxon #14 billion record profit

The sad thing is now that oil/gas prices dropped next quarter they will be claiming losses and possible bankruptcy. The typical cycle of this criminal industry.

10-28 BP $10 billion record profit

10-27 Oil drops to $63

Americans use as much oil as 1942.

10-24 OPEC cuts 1.5 million barrels to try and start false shortages

10-21 Palin supports sending Alaska Natural Gas to foreigners

10-19 Return of $2 gas brings back giant Pickup truck and SUV ads
How quickly Americans forget

10-15-2008 Gas prices fall 33 cents to $3.15/gallon, the biggest decline ever recorded

The average U.S. retail gasoline price fell 33.3 cents over the last week to $3.15 a gallon, the biggest price decline ever recorded by the government, the Energy Department said on Tuesday.

10-13 Oil back over $80 as Goldman predicts $50, same yahoos that said $200 by end of 2008. Meanwhile Saudi Arabia begins cutting production and shipments.

10-10 Oil dives to $77 on world financial slump

10-6 Oil drops below $90 with worldwide Markets slump

10-5 Gas $2.93 in Iowa, $3.99 in California
California must be on a different continent, maybe the Earthquakes separated it?

10-2 Oil drops to $93

Will wait till after elections to go through the roof again

9-28 Gas still scarce and $4 in Nashville & Atlanta after Hurricanes Gustav and Ike

9-26 Canada cuts off Oil Tar exports to Asia under guise of "Carbon Emission ban".

Canada and U.S. preparing for Global WWIII? No other explanation makes any sense.

9-23 Democrats let offshore drilling ban expire

9-22 $25 Biggest 1 day jump ever Oil back over $120, up $30 in last 4 days

9-19 Oil back over $104, up $13 in last 3 days

9-17 Oil jumps $6 2nd largest surge in history as investor criminals run away from financial markets back to oil. Next stop $200

9-13 EIA wants the public to report gas price gouging:

http://gaswatch.energy.gov/

9-13 Gas jumps over $5 in southeast - Bush relaxes gas import rules

9-12 Southeast states begin voluntary gas rationing and gas prices jump well over $4 overnight

9-11 Gas prices spike to $5 ahead of Hurricane Ike
Now they claim there will be gas shortages

Saudi Arabia pulls out of OPEC.

9-9 OPEC decides to curb overproduction by more than 500,000 barrels

How can there be an "overproduction" when the AT Supply & Demand pundits swear there is not enough oil? :confused:

9-3 U.S. opens 250,000 barrels of reserves after Gustav, oil falls to $107
OPEC meets next week, Iran wants to cut production to raise prices again

9-1 Oil drops $4 after Gustav comes ashore

ATers declare oil companies out of excuses

8-29 Gas prices hurtling towards $5 ahead of Gustav.

Some say as high as $10 coming

8-28 Analysts say Gustav may break Gas record prices
EIA talking about releasing Reserves

8-26 Oil spikes with Hurricane Gustav, they begin adding "Hurricane Premium" pricing.

1pm update $5 jump over $120 and climbing fast, Remember there is no oil shortage of any kind

8-25 Oil rises as dollar drops again
"Speculators buy and sell on thin air" as one ATer put it.


8-22 Oil drops $6 Largest one day drop in four years

I hope a lot of criminal speculator bastards lost their asses

8-21 Oil soars $6 passes $121

8-21 Oil passes $119

8-21 Oil tops $116

ATers continue relentess attack on OP

8-20 Oil soars past $115 despite 9.4 million barrel inventory jump
Goldman Sachs re-affirms $149 by end of the year, traders bet on Tropical storms taking out facilites in the Gulf of Mexico


8-19 Oil back over $114, Gasoline, Natural Gas and heating oil all rise

That bubble got patched quick

8-18 8-18 Texas to get offshore oil terminal and refinery expansion

8-15 Crude at three month low to $111

8-14 Democrat Senators say Gov report on oil prices is flawed

8-14 Crude back down to $115

Wall streeters and P&N oil apologists rejoice, I have no idea why.

8-13 Crude oil prices back up $4 over $117

8-13 Crude oil prices back up $3 over $115
Wall street drops 300

8-12 Crude oil prices fall a bit Tuesday
Energy "Advisors" say fundamentals are "easing"

8-11 Oil soars on Russia-Georgia war

8-9 Oil below $115

8-6 Oil below $120 first time since May 1st

Money goes into stock market

8-3 America's Gas stations price gouging consumers

7-31 Massive record profits roll in for Oil Co's

7-30-08 Oil jumps $5 on variety of excuses

7-29 Dave wants to know why Diesel is a dollar higher than gasoline.

Remember there is no shortage of oil.

7-28 Iran announces it has 6,000 centifuges, Oil rises
Latest excuse to prop up price

7-23-08 Oil barge split in half in New Orleans spilling 420,000 gals of No. 6 oil

7-22 Pickens testifies before congress that oil will hit $300 in 10 years
Oil drops $4 on gasoline oversupply, storm misses oil rigs

7-18-08 Oil has biggest one week drop ever.

Crane collaspes at Houston refinery killing four workers

7-14-2008 Bush lifts executive ban on offshore drilling

I say destroy all the beaches off the U.S. immediately. That's one less excuse gone.

7-11-08 Oil passes $147.50 on fears of Israel/U.S. Vs Iran War

7-9-08 Iran fires 9 missiles, oil of course goes up. Pelosi asks Bush to release oil stockpile, he of course will refuse

7-8-08 Oil falls $9 in 2 days on U.S. overflowing with oil and gasoline
Can they sell it as varnish?

7-3-08 Oil tops $145 for first time - Gas $4.10 Nationwide average nearing $5 in many areas.

7-2-08 Oil tops $144 for first time

6-30-08 Oil tops $143 for first time

The only ones complaining of a "supply problem" is the ones benefitting from the high prices and they are the ones drving the prices up:

These people are criminals plain and simple and should be charged immediately with high crimes against humanity on Financial Espionage.

6-30-2008 BP's CEO Tony Hayward said the argument that financial investors buying oil futures were behind a four-year rally that pushed oil prices to new records above $143/barrel on Monday was a "myth."

He said the problem was a failure of supply growth to match demand growth. "Supply is not responding adequately to rising demand," he told thousands of delegates at the World Petroleum Congress.

Repsol CEO Antonio Brufau agreed. "The fundamentals in the industry are the significant reasons for having these prices," he said.

Oil companies often hedge production but do not usually bet on the direction of the oil market, with the possible exception of BP which is considered the most aggressive trader among the majors.

6-26-08 Katie Couric on CBS news says gas will now jump to $7 gallon

6-26-08 Oil jumps above $140 on OPEC, Libya comments

Chakib Khelil, president of the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries, said he believes oil prices could rise to between $150 and $170 a barrel this summer

Meanwhile, the head of Libya's national oil company said the country may cut crude production because the oil market is well supplied

6-24-08 Natural Gas and Coal prices rising even higher and fast than Oil.

Energy criminals will destroy the U.S. and cripple the world for a long time.

All by design

6-22-08 Gas prices putting end to small indie band tours

More Americana slipping away

6-18-08 Gas stations begin banning use of credit cards or charging more to use them.

6-16-2008 Prices rise to new record near $140.

6-15-2008 Saudi King says he will lower prices, boosts output by 200,000

6-14-08 All oil problems over - Japan unveils water powered car

6-13 Exxon to exit U.S. retail gas business, claims not making any money

6-11-08 After Taxes blocked Analysts on a crime spree again, oil jumps towards $140

6-10-2008 Republicans block extra taxes on oil companies

WASHINGTON - Senate Republicans blocked a proposal Tuesday to tax the windfall profits of the largest oil companies, despite pleas by Democratic leaders to use the measure to address America's anger over $4 a gallon gasoline.

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6-8-08 Gas hits national average of $4 for the first time
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6-7-2008 Saudi Arabia holds meeting to curb oil output for better prices
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Many sites say they are looking for $500 a barrel now.
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David switches oil from barrels to gallons.

Oil is now $3.33 a gallon


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Morgan Stanley analyst Ole Slorer should be in jail.

Oil over $139

6-6-2008 Biggest single-day price increase in the history of the Nymex crude

NEW YORK - Oil prices shot up nearly $7 a barrel Friday, extending big gains from the previous day and racing toward an all-time high after a Morgan Stanley analyst predicted prices could hit $150 by the Fourth of July.

Prices pushed sharply higher Friday after Morgan Stanley analyst Ole Slorer said he expected strong demand in Asia could drive prices to $150 by Independence Day
"We had a rally of something like $12 in about 24 hours.

It makes no fundamental sense,"

said Stephen Schork, an analyst and trader in Villanova, Pa. "With oil pushing back up to the mid-$130s, it's the make it or break it point. If we go past that, we set the course for uncharted waters and head up toward $150."

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6-1-08 Economists predict $7 gas with first Tropical storm or Hurricane in Gulf

Hurricanes could lead to $7 gas


5-27-2008 CNN - Drop In Driving Is Steepest On Record

At a time when gas prices are at an all-time high, Americans have curtailed their driving at a historic rate.

The Department of Transportation said figures from March show the steepest decrease in driving ever recorded.

Compared with March a year earlier, Americans drove an estimated 4.3 percent less -- that's 11 billion fewer miles, the DOT's Federal Highway Administration said Monday, calling it "the sharpest yearly drop for any month in FHWA history."

Records have been kept since 1942.
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5-16-2008Oil sets record near $128; pump price at high, too
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I would like to see the Oil/Gas Company supporters in here explain how this is not only criminal on their part but also explain why it is OK to reward these companies for what should be called incompetence.

Nevermind - The higher the better, the more incompetence the better, Americans enjoy paying for not being able to do the job right.

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"The Surge" worked for Republicans and their supporters in Iraq so they are using it again to raise gasoline prices.

Factoid - Oil was $26 a barrel when Oilman George W Bush took office, it is now $115 a barrel. That is his biggest "Mission Accomplished". Iraq is an anecdote.

Enjoy
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4-25-2008 Oil prices rise above $116 a barrel on supply worries after Nigeria pipeline attack

Oil prices rose Friday, largely reversing an earlier $2 a barrel drop, after a militant group behind recent attacks in Nigeria's southern oil region said it had sabotaged another pipeline and a strike hit Exxon Mobil production in Africa's biggest exporter.

White-collar workers at Exxon Mobil Corp. -- one of the largest producers in Nigeria, with an output of about 2 million barrels a day of crude oil -- have "commenced a safe and orderly shut-in of production" to push for more pay, the company said in a statement.
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So here you have these companies making record billions upon billions of record profit.

Don't know what the pay is for these workers now labeled as "militants" get but they clearly want a bigger piece of the pie.

Can you blame them?

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4-22 Oil near $120

Gas prices rise further above $3.50, while oil nears $120

Light, sweet crude for May delivery rose to a new trading record of $119.74

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4-22-08 Oil $118 On "Supply concerns" with Nigeria.
Nigeria hit by "militants" U.S. loses 25% of Nigerian oil supply

So why are we in Iraq and thinking about invading Iran then?
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Here's a new excuse I've never heard before.

They are getting more creative as they get more desperate.

If workers are truly so dumb and unskilled how come they can't train them with the billions in record profits???

Is this the reason the refineries keep blowing up?

They have a bunch of illegal uneducated foriegners running the rigs and refineries?

4-21-2008 Shortage of skilled labour delays rigs and refining

Iraqi oil minister Hussain Al-Shahristani argued that an increase in production by the Organisation of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) would not bring the relief the market was calling for, since prices were being driven primarily by speculation.

"There isn't much OPEC can do," the minister told reporters.

"OPEC is producing as much as the market requires.

As a matter of fact there's some surplus on the market."

"I am not enjoying the high prices. Who does?" he asked, adding: "The market is very confused. We are facing a lot of difficulties, not only the oil prices, but also the huge costs" of maintaing or increasing production.

Among the cost factors were the weak dollar, high inflation, rig costs and shortage of skilled labour, which were all delaying some projects, he argued.

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4-18 Oil $117 Refiners cutting back gasoline production even more, now claim they are "losing" money.

Anyone actually believe this?

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4-16 $115
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4-15 Oil over $114 , Gas over $3.50 in most of the country, over $4 in Kaliforneeia

Oil sets new record high above $114 , Gas sets new records


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4-9 Oil record over $112, Gas over $3.43

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4-4-08 Refiners complain about high price of crude and stop production lines of gas and diesel.

Governors asking Bush to release oil. (Of course that will not help the situation)

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3-12-08 New daily Oil record: over $110

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3-1-08 Oil firmly well over $100, Friday new record over $106

Gas now firmly well over $5 in California, rest of the country catching up fast.

Enjoy from the Blind Dog

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2-17-08 Gas back over $3, MSM quiet on it so far.

New Poll question: How high will Gas get this year for the yearly formulation change excuse?


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1-30-2008 Get ready for another surge in gasoline prices

Experts are predicting pump prices, which jumped by almost a dollar a gallon in each of the last two springs in many parts of the United States, will spike again this year as refiners and gas stations switch from winter- to summer-blended fuels.

The increases, starting as early as February in southern California, could push the average national price to a record $3.50 a gallon or more by June.

That would be 17 percent higher than today's average of just under $3 a gallon, which already is about 80 cents a gallon higher than year-ago levels thanks to the surge of crude oil that took futures prices briefly to $100 a barrel. Prices in urban areas on each coast could approach $4 a gallon.
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Rest of article is excuses and apologists for the Oil Industry thugs and those that support them
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11-21-07 Oil reaches new record over $99
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11-19-07 Warnings of $200 to $300 per barrel after OPEC summit.

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11-15-07 Honda announces limited release of Hydrogen car for California in 2008

FCX Clarity $600 per month lease

No word on where these folks will fill up.
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11-13 Penn State makes method for easy, cheap hydrogem production.

Can't be because P&N experts says so
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11-7 Oil over $98 Gasoline well over $3 throughout majority of U.S. and rising.

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11-1 Oil over $96 Resident Big Oil Supporters can no longer use 1980 inflation adjusted excuse

11-1-2007 Oil at $96 tops 1980 inflation adjusted high

Crude prices have reached inflation-adjusted highs set in early 1980. Depending on the how the adjustment is calculated, $38 a barrel then would be worth $96 to $101 or more today.

"We are stepping into an unknown area. Nobody wants to sell (given the fear of a) further rise," broker Ken Hasegawa of Fimat Japan told Dow Jones Newswires.
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10-31 Oil over $94
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10-29 Oil over $93
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10-26-2007 U.N. calls the growing practice of converting food crops into biofuel "a crime against humanity"
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10-26-07 Oil over $92
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10-25-07 Gas back over $3
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10-18-07 Oil passes $90
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10-17-07 Oil at new record over $89
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10-16-07 Oil at new record over $88
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10-15-07 Oil at new record over $86
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10-11-07 Oil back over $83

I should get an apology from an overzealous adoring fan in here but I'm sure I won't.
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10-9-07 Natural Gas and propane prices rise 10% despite plenty of supply.

Just because they can.
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10-8-07 The 4 cent drop in gasoline was short lived.

Refineries shut down gasoline production to make heating oil.

Somehow this is of course the American consumer fault.
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10-8-07 OMFGBBQ Oil fell to $80 and gas at $2.57

Both are cheap again according to P&N experts

Everybody go out and get Hummers immediately.
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9-18-2007 Oil reaches new high at $82 & climbing, no reasonable explanation according to experts.
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9-17-2007 Oil reaches new high at $81 & climbing, no reasonable explanation according to experts.
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9-13-2007 Oh noes Hurricane Humberto knocks down Valero and Motiva in Texas.

Oil sets new highs.

One has nothing to do with the other. In fact that means less oil is getting refined and inventories are overflowing anyway.

This whole scam gets more out of control everyday:

" Most large financial institutions have gone long on crude, and each new high tested equates to substantial profits "
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Breaking news 9-11-2007

Oil hits new record high despite amazing new oil output.
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Breaking news 9-11-2007

OPEC magically pulls 500,000 barrels a day of extra oil out of their asses.

Amazing isn't it?

We're told they can't get anymore out of the ground and poof there it is.

We're told daily the oil inventories are overflowing anyway, never a problem with oil shortage but that the refineries can't refine it all.

So what are the refineries going to do with another 500,000 barrels worth they didn't need and can't do anything with to begin with???

OPEC Agrees on 500,000-Barrel-A-Day Increase in Crude Oil Production Starting in November
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9-7-2007 Oil prices rise on 9/11 Terror attack fears

Prices were also supported by news that the U.S. embassy in Nigeria warned that American and other Western interests in the country are at risk of a terrorist attack.

Energy futures on Thursday also rose after Syrian armed forces said they opened fire on Israeli fighters that allegedly violated Syrian airspace, analysts said.

Oil traders worry that any conflict in the Middle East will escalate, drawing the U.S. in and disrupting oil supplies.
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Fear, Fear,Fear, Fear,Fear, Fear,Fear, Fear,Fear, Fear,Fear, Fear,Fear, Fear
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8-31-2007 Refiners run down summer blend on purpose, then raise prices because there is not enough

NEW YORK - Gasoline prices rose again at the pump Friday, extending a trend that analysts believe will continue until mid-September because of an end-of-season shortage of summer blend gasoline.

Gasoline futures have moved higher over the last week and a half on news of falling inventories and refinery activity.

Refiners are running low on summer-grade gas, a mixture designed to emit fewer pollutants, analysts said. Refiners try to run down their supplies of the more expensive summer grade gas just in time for Sept. 15, when stations can legally begin selling winter grade gas, he said. But this year, that run down came a little early.

"There isn't a lot of summer gasoline that's been kept at the ready," said Tom Kloza, publisher and chief oil analyst at the Oil Price Information Service.

In many markets, he said, "you're going to see a retail price pop" as supplies run short.

Gas prices at the pump rose 0.8 cent overnight to a national average of $2.777 a gallon, according to AAA and the Oil Price Information Service. It was the third increase in as many days.


Thread locked due to it becoming and pissing match.

Anandtech Senior Moderator
Red Dawn
 

Gneisenau

Senior member
May 30, 2007
264
0
0
Your post fails to answer the following questions:

Is gasoline useage up this year over last year or historical useage? (my understanding is yes it is up quite a bit.)
How fast can they ramp up or down production of one type of gas? (I don't know the answer to this question.)
How much profit do gas companies make on a gallon of gas? (I understand it's right around 25-30 cents a gallon. roughly 8-9% gross)
How much money does the government (local and federal) make on a gallon of gas?(Here where I live it's around 50 cents.)
How much profit does the gas station make on a gallon of gas? (My understanding is most make no profit on gas. They make their profit on the mini mart side of the company.)


When we have the answers to these questions, we will know if they deserve their profits.

Here is a good explaination of what I mean. http://www.fool.com/investing/...00-million-insult.aspx
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,118
58
91
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
I would like to see the Oil/Gas Company supporters in here explain how this is not only criminal on their part buit also explain why it is OK to reward these companies for what should be called incompetence.

Why would someone be a self-described shill and proceed to explain that their benefactor's activity is criminal?

Honestly I have never witnessed a country with so many entitled citizens as this USA. You act like it is your god-given right to have a lifestyle that is unaffordable...and when reality comes knocking on your door and proves by way of your checkbook that you are living too high on the hog then all of a sudden you are the victims of corporate conspiracy.

Try getting a reality check and looking at the price of gasoline versus average annual income in 99% of the other countries on this planet. Then figure out how on earth it is possible those people manage to survive under the cruel heel of the boot you call corporate conspiracy.

Try pursuing a lifestyle that is not so expensive that you must get a job that requires you to drive 60 miles from where you live.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Idontcare
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
I would like to see the Oil/Gas Company supporters in here explain how this is not only criminal on their part buit also explain why it is OK to reward these companies for what should be called incompetence.

Why would someone be a self-described shill and proceed to explain that their benefactor's activity is criminal?

Honestly I have never witnessed a country with so many entitled citizens as this USA. You act like it is your god-given right to have a lifestyle that is unaffordable...and when reality comes knocking on your door and proves by way of your checkbook that you are living too high on the hog then all of a sudden you are the victims of corporate conspiracy.

Try getting a reality check and looking at the price of gasoline versus average annual income in 99% of the other countries on this planet.

Then figure out how on earth it is possible those people manage to survive under the cruel heel of the boot you call corporate conspiracy.

Try pursuing a lifestyle that is not so expensive that you must get a job that requires you to drive 60 miles from where you live.

So in a nutshell you agree the U.S. should and deserves to go back to horse and buggy.

Afterall we couldn't possibly live and work on top of each other like that other 99% of the countries. :roll:
 

dualsmp

Golden Member
Aug 16, 2003
1,626
44
91
Just another variation on restricting supply to jack up the price. Seems hurricane Dean didn't pull through for them, so well.. you know, gotta think of something else. ;) The oil companies have an endless supply of excuses they can make up at the drop of a hat.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
Originally posted by: Gneisenau
Your post fails to answer the following questions:

Is gasoline useage up this year over last year or historical useage? (my understanding is yes it is up quite a bit.)
How fast can they ramp up or down production of one type of gas? (I don't know the answer to this question.)
How much profit do gas companies make on a gallon of gas? (I understand it's right around 25-30 cents a gallon. roughly 8-9% gross)
How much money does the government (local and federal) make on a gallon of gas?(Here where I live it's around 50 cents.)
How much profit does the gas station make on a gallon of gas? (My understanding is most make no profit on gas. They make their profit on the mini mart side of the company.)


When we have the answers to these questions, we will know if they deserve their profits.

Here is a good explaination of what I mean. http://www.fool.com/investing/...00-million-insult.aspx

Quite a bit of profit processing their own $5.00 a barrel oil. You cannot believe they make $$Billions$$ buying Middle East Crude?
 

bctbct

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2005
4,868
1
0
Originally posted by: Idontcare
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
I would like to see the Oil/Gas Company supporters in here explain how this is not only criminal on their part buit also explain why it is OK to reward these companies for what should be called incompetence.

Why would someone be a self-described shill and proceed to explain that their benefactor's activity is criminal?

Honestly I have never witnessed a country with so many entitled citizens as this USA. You act like it is your god-given right to have a lifestyle that is unaffordable...and when reality comes knocking on your door and proves by way of your checkbook that you are living too high on the hog then all of a sudden you are the victims of corporate conspiracy.

Try getting a reality check and looking at the price of gasoline versus average annual income in 99% of the other countries on this planet. Then figure out how on earth it is possible those people manage to survive under the cruel heel of the boot you call corporate conspiracy.

Try pursuing a lifestyle that is not so expensive that you must get a job that requires you to drive 60 miles from where you live.



so....you walk to work or ride a bike? :roll:
 

jackace

Golden Member
Oct 6, 2004
1,307
0
0
Yeah one of the large problems in this country is how spread out things are. Even if you live in a decent sized city it can be a 15-20 mile commute one way very easy. Most cities have horrible if any public transit as well.

I do agree though we have cheaper gas then other countries, but if the oil companies are trying to artificially raise prices by restricting supply then I have some problems with that. The oil industry in the country has become so consolidated that what 3 or 4 companies produce all the oil? Seems like we might have some action for price fixing by these companies?
 

Wheezer

Diamond Member
Nov 2, 1999
6,731
1
81
Originally posted by: jackace
Yeah one of the large problems in this country is how spread out things are. Even if you live in a decent sized city it can be a 15-20 mile commute one way very easy. Most cities have horrible if any public transit as well.

I do agree though we have cheaper gas then other countries, but if the oil companies are trying to artificially raise prices by restricting supply then I have some problems with that. The oil industry in the country has become so consolidated that what 3 or 4 companies produce all the oil? Seems like we might have some action for price fixing by these companies?

Well, I don't see a whole lot of people running out starting their own fuel companies do you?

Why do you suppose that is? Probably because it takes a hell of a lot in R&D to locate new supply sources, develop new ways to refine oil into fuel and put up the capital to update and build new equipment.

Part of the rise in cost is due to this whole "summer gas/winter gas" thing. There are so many environmental restrictions on fuel now if costs a fortune to make it.

California has different emission standards than Ohio, Ohio has different standards than Texas, Texas is different than New York and it just goes on an on...so now instead of making one or two types of fuel they have to make many types just to please all the environmentalists out there that want tighter and tighter restrictions.

Perhaps maybe if we didn't have these restrictions they would not have to "throttle back"?

 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Wheezer

Part of the rise in cost is due to this whole "summer gas/winter gas" thing.

There are so many environmental restrictions on fuel now it costs a fortune to make it.
Do you have proof this "summer/winter gas thing" is the primary rise in price?

How long have these Companies been making this product with how many record billions in profits???

Like I said it smacks of incompetence to me.

Why does it not appear to be NOT incompetence to you?
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
His explanation is just as good as your conspiracies.


The article states that the summer blends are more expensive.


Rather than worry about the price difference, we should just always use the summer blends. That way the refiners would not have to worry about the switch over.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
His explanation is just as good as your conspiracies.

The article states that the summer blends are more expensive.

Rather than worry about the price difference, we should just always use the summer blends.

That way the refiners would not have to worry about the switch over.

Bingo

and one less bullshit excuse.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
His explanation is just as good as your conspiracies.

The article states that the summer blends are more expensive.

Rather than worry about the price difference, we should just always use the summer blends.

That way the refiners would not have to worry about the switch over.

Bingo

and one less bullshit excuse.


And you will complain about the extra $0.10 price
 

Gneisenau

Senior member
May 30, 2007
264
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Wheezer

Part of the rise in cost is due to this whole "summer gas/winter gas" thing.

There are so many environmental restrictions on fuel now it costs a fortune to make it.
Do you have proof this "summer/winter gas thing" is the primary rise in price?

How long have these Companies been making this product with how many record billions in profits???

Like I said it smacks of incompetence to me.

Why does it not appear to be NOT incompetence to you?

Do you have proof it isn't?

Look at it this way. Suppose your company made widgets. You could make a perfectly good widget fot 10 bucks and sell it for 30 bucks. Seems reasonable. Now suppose the law said you had to make a special widget that cost 15 bucks to make, but you only had to sell it between October and Feburary. Keep in mind you have to retool your line for the new widgets. Wouldn't you make the cheaper widgets at 10 bucks and sell them till you had to make the more expensive ones? Wouldn't you try to anticipate how many of each type of widgets you need to make? If you have a run on one type of widget and run short what would you do? Retool and go back then retool and go again?

Oil companies can't switch at the drop of the hat. If nothing else, you have to drop inventory down to make room to store the new formulations. They also have to change the way they process oil to make the new formulations.

This BS about price gouging comes up every damn year. Half a dozen or so government agencies do investigations. Nothing ever happens. Why? Not becase the oil companies buy off every one of these. It's because they always find the same thing. Their taxes are the higest contributor to the problem of prices.

They also have to spend billions on maintenance, discovery of new sources, and upgrades to their refineries.

I work for an large electrical contractor. We do 3 or 4 refineries a year so they can meet the new pollution guidelines. We can't supply labor to do everyone out for bid. No single company can. Every facility we do one in costs many hundreds of millions of dollars if not billions. Every refinery has to make the conversion. Once they make the conversion, they get about a decade out of it, before some new regulation comes along and they have to do something new again. Then there are the modifications that need to be made to handle the change in the grade of crude they get as it changes slowly over time. Then there are new safety guidelines that cause more changes. Implementing these changes requires a shutdown or slow down of production for a period of a couple of weeks to months to start-up and use. In California, where we are working of 2 right now, the government asked the facility to delay one project several months to help insure supplies stay high enough through the warm months.

I'm not saying they don't need to make these changes. What I'm saying is these changes cost huge bucks. So much money in fact, that most of the smaller/privately owned refineries have closed because they can't make the modifications and stay in buisness. Some of those refineries get sold to larger ones, some sit abandoned

We need more capacity in our refining capability. Of course everytime one of them tries to build a new one, NIMBY comes into play, and the new project get's held up in court for a decade or two or until the oil company gives up and abandons the idea. No one wants a refinery near their house. No one wants a pipeline in their neighbourhood. No one wants an endless train of tankers driving their freeways or streets.

One last point. How about answering the questions I posed in my first post. You beat around the bush, but you don't add anything but the same old sorry platitudes we've all heard a thousand times before. They were meaningless 20 years and and are still meaningless unless you can show data that doing everything you want is: A. possible, and B. would reduce the cost of gasoline more than a dime or two a gallon. Until then, let's discuss things that can really help drop the cost. Thinks like finding and tapping new sources, building/buying more efficient cars or buidling new and more modern/efficient refineries.

As it stands now, they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
 

FuzzyBee

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2000
5,172
1
81
Originally posted by: Gneisenau
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Wheezer

Part of the rise in cost is due to this whole "summer gas/winter gas" thing.

There are so many environmental restrictions on fuel now it costs a fortune to make it.
Do you have proof this "summer/winter gas thing" is the primary rise in price?

How long have these Companies been making this product with how many record billions in profits???

Like I said it smacks of incompetence to me.

Why does it not appear to be NOT incompetence to you?

Do you have proof it isn't?

Look at it this way...<snip>

Please don't waste our time trying to reason with Dave.

 

Gneisenau

Senior member
May 30, 2007
264
0
0
Originally posted by: WHAMPOM
Originally posted by: Gneisenau
Your post fails to answer the following questions:

Is gasoline useage up this year over last year or historical useage? (my understanding is yes it is up quite a bit.)
How fast can they ramp up or down production of one type of gas? (I don't know the answer to this question.)
How much profit do gas companies make on a gallon of gas? (I understand it's right around 25-30 cents a gallon. roughly 8-9% gross)
How much money does the government (local and federal) make on a gallon of gas?(Here where I live it's around 50 cents.)
How much profit does the gas station make on a gallon of gas? (My understanding is most make no profit on gas. They make their profit on the mini mart side of the company.)


When we have the answers to these questions, we will know if they deserve their profits.

Here is a good explaination of what I mean. http://www.fool.com/investing/...00-million-insult.aspx



Quite a bit of profit processing their own $5.00 a barrel oil. You cannot believe they make $$Billions$$ buying Middle East Crude?

Well the data is in that link. Whatever the cost of the crudeor where it comes from, the fact is they only make a few percent net profit. Their books are public record, and they get investigated every year when the price of gas climbs. If anything, since they are publically owned, they would overstate their profits not hide the bucks. If they hid the profits, their stock price would drop.

They make billions of dollars profit because they sell many hundreds of billions of gallons a year. The simple truth is, if they donated 100% if their net profit and all their huge bonuses, your savings per gallon would be barely noticable. Certainly not enough to make anyone happy. Of course we can't drop off the taxes and really make a dent in the price of gas. Those taxes would just be shifted somewhere else.

 

Gneisenau

Senior member
May 30, 2007
264
0
0
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
His explanation is just as good as your conspiracies.

The article states that the summer blends are more expensive.

Rather than worry about the price difference, we should just always use the summer blends.

That way the refiners would not have to worry about the switch over.

Bingo

and one less bullshit excuse.


And you will complain about the extra $0.10 price

Bingo
and one more Bullshit excuse

 

Gneisenau

Senior member
May 30, 2007
264
0
0
Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
Originally posted by: Gneisenau
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Wheezer

Part of the rise in cost is due to this whole "summer gas/winter gas" thing.

There are so many environmental restrictions on fuel now it costs a fortune to make it.
Do you have proof this "summer/winter gas thing" is the primary rise in price?

How long have these Companies been making this product with how many record billions in profits???

Like I said it smacks of incompetence to me.

Why does it not appear to be NOT incompetence to you?

Do you have proof it isn't?

Look at it this way...<snip>

Please don't waste our time trying to reason with Dave.

Sorry, you're right. I've finally come to the conclussion that I can offer undeniable proof against something simply by the fact if dave is for it. :)

 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,914
2,359
126
Originally posted by: Gneisenau
Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
Originally posted by: Gneisenau
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Wheezer

Part of the rise in cost is due to this whole "summer gas/winter gas" thing.

There are so many environmental restrictions on fuel now it costs a fortune to make it.
Do you have proof this "summer/winter gas thing" is the primary rise in price?

How long have these Companies been making this product with how many record billions in profits???

Like I said it smacks of incompetence to me.

Why does it not appear to be NOT incompetence to you?

Do you have proof it isn't?

Look at it this way...<snip>

Please don't waste our time trying to reason with Dave.

Sorry, you're right. I've finally come to the conclussion that I can offer undeniable proof against something simply by the fact if dave is for it. :)

If we all had a dollar for every time Dave got owned by someone pointing out a clear concise explaination, we could all retire :) I think it's because the explainations arent one liners...since thats all Dave is capable of writing, I have a feeling anything over a few sentances is too much for him. It sure would be nice to see a detailed post from him though.

Oh well.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,987
1
0
Originally posted by: Gneisenau
As it stands now, they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Which is precisely as Dave prefers it.

As usual, he has avoided every question posed to him in this thread.
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
It was proposed elsewhere that simply posting "STFU" to Dave's rants shouldn't be grounds for a vacation.

Unfortunately, the mod in question wouldn't volunteer that the other mods would go along with the plan :(
 

Gneisenau

Senior member
May 30, 2007
264
0
0
Wow. Probably because it's too short. Now if you added a string of other adjectives after it, it may be more acceptable.