Oikophobia -- fear and hatred of one's own culture and people

[boomerang]

WALKING INTO MORDOR

Oikophobia - the driving force behind the progressive agenda. Who knew it had a name? I haven't heard a progressive yet that didn't want to change our world to suit their warped vision.

I wish Mr. Whittle the best of luck.

 

[Infohawk]

The guy doesn't seem to be using oikophobe in a proper way.

 

[boomerang]

I'm not crazy about the video but it reminds me of some of the left in this forum who seem to like the idea of central american culture overcoming as much of America as possible. :-/ But is that because they dislike the dominant American culture or because they think Mexican culture is so great?

Also the guy doesn't seem to be using oikophobe in a proper way.

I like Bill Whittle but this is not his best work IMO.

He's using Scruton's usage. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oikophobia

 

[First]

I like how the OP can't see conservatives do the exact same thing, they just choose to demonize different parts of American traditions than progressives do; like social programs or women's rights (or non-white rights up until recently).

 

[boomerang]

I like how the OP can't see conservatives do the exact same thing, they just choose to demonize different parts of American traditions than progressives do; like social programs or women's rights (or non-white rights up until recently).

My hope is that one day you wake up and quit carrying the water for the progressive left. There have been some pretty heavy hitters on the far left that have woken up so there is some hope for you.

As I see it, your problem with my post is that I don't subscribe to the fairness doctrine and haven't posted the opposing point of view. But you are free to do so, or you may continue to demonize me. Whatever floats your boat.

 

[fskimospy]

Well this was one of the dumber things I've seen in awhile. Only in the special ed classroom that passes itself off as political debate in America would 'LIBRULS HATE 'MURRICA' still exist as something that wasn't laughed out of the room.

I haven't met anyone who didn't want to change the world to fit what they thought would make it better. I mean how soulless would you have to be to see the world and say 'meh, that will have to do'?

 

[ProfJohn]

The guy makes some very good points.

Hollywood is full of people who are full of self loathing for this country. That is why the run off to Cuba or hang out with Chavez.

Same thing with many liberals in this forum. We live in the most prosperous country in the world, but you would never know that by looking around this forum.

 

[First]

My hope is that one day you wake up and quit carrying the water for the progressive left. There have been some pretty heavy hitters on the far left that have woken up so there is some hope for you.

As I see it, your problem with my post is that I don't subscribe to the fairness doctrine and haven't posted the opposing point of view. But you are free to do so, or you may continue to demonize me. Whatever floats your boat.

Your obfuscation pretty much confirms what we've known for a while; you aren't particularly interested in objective reality but mere ideological dogma.

 

[fskimospy]

The guy makes some very good points.

Hollywood is full of people who are full of self loathing for this country. That is why the run off to Cuba or hang out with Chavez.

Same thing with many liberals in this forum. We live in the most prosperous country in the world, but you would never know that by looking around this forum.

The guy makes zero good points, come on man, I'm sure you're smarter than this. This doesn't exactly surprise me that people would fall for this stupidity, considering how many times you see hilariously wrong posts about 'libruls believe X'.

Liberals dislike certain things about America. Generally they dislike the 3rd world levels of income inequality, they dislike America's rampant homophobia, things like that. Inherently people who are liberal want to change things, while conservatives want them to stay the same. That's sort of the definitions of the words. To think that something needs to be improved somehow equals a hatred of your country is 3rd grade reasoning at its worst.

Funny thing is that I see huge quantities of hateful rhetoric coming from conservatives as well. The amount of sheer loathing they have for huge segments of their fellow Americans and what they stand for could lead someone to say that conservatives hate America too. (if you were following this guy's dumb reasoning.)

This was nothing but red meat to preach to the converted, and you fell for it hook, line, and sinker. Why can't we all just accept that both liberals and conservatives like America quite a lot, and we want what's best for it? You don't have to agree, but this whole stupid idea where both sides think that the other is some fifth column attempting to destroy the country is getting really old.

 

[Craig234]

Really, it's just proof how deluded people of his ideology are.

When I post about how Texas should have followed our treaty obligation to put a defendant in touch with the Mexican consulate, a poster like this responds that I'm trying to subvert justice and not caring about the murdered girl. Of course this is false, but it only shows how he can't understand the issue and to him, that's how it appears.

Similarly, when a liberal finds ways to improve America, people like the OP can't understand this, and because they have a sort of lizard brain patriotism that understands little more than crying at anything red, white and blue and empty chanting of phrases "We the people God Bless America Liberty and Justice" without any concern for what the phrases mean, the liberal appears to them as 'hating America'. What else to make of people who say 'America doing things like genocide or slavery or denying women the right to vote or killing people in unjust wars or not doing as much as we should for reducing poverty or ensuring people have healthcare or having a fair criminal justice system that has some rights for guilty people are mistakes we should fix'?

This is why the debate between the two sides has so long had a battleground of phrases such as 'My country right or wrong', or 'love it or leave it'.

The right almost seems to be a sort of teen who needs the parents of the left to improve the country - after which the right often claims the improvement (not many call for returning slavery or removing the right for women to vote), but will scream murder in a sort of brainless rebellion at any suggestions for improvement.

Ultimately, it makes the right really un-American - the founding fathers were big supporters of ongoing improvement - but that's 'their America', love it or leave it.

One of my basic tests for 'right or left' is whether a person thinks of themselves first as a member of the human race, or as a member of their nation.

There's an idea that morality reaches to all people, beyond 'all that matters if it helps us, screw you' - and much of the right doesn't seem to understand it.

This isn't true about all of 'the right'; some on the right are there simply for specific policy reasons, whether social or economic, and these people tend to be at least embarrassed, if not horrified, by the type I describe above, who they are in bed with as members of 'the right'. The OP isn't one of these more reasonable people, his post says.

To the OP, the left is a mystery. He's the type why I need to often post:

95% of what's said here about liberals is wrong or lies; I can't remember the other 5%.

Much of their views is based on straw men. "Liberals hate the US, so..." is their 'argument'.

 

[irishScott]

The guy makes zero good points, come on man, I'm sure you're smarter than this. This doesn't exactly surprise me that people would fall for this stupidity, considering how many times you see hilariously wrong posts about 'libruls believe X'.

Liberals dislike certain things about America. Generally they dislike the 3rd world levels of income inequality, they dislike America's rampant homophobia, things like that. Inherently people who are liberal want to change things, while conservatives want them to stay the same. That's sort of the definitions of the words. To think that something needs to be improved somehow equals a hatred of your country is 3rd grade reasoning at its worst.

Funny thing is that I see huge quantities of hateful rhetoric coming from conservatives as well. The amount of sheer loathing they have for huge segments of their fellow Americans and what they stand for could lead someone to say that conservatives hate America too. (if you were following this guy's dumb reasoning.)

This was nothing but red meat to preach to the converted, and you fell for it hook, line, and sinker. Why can't we all just accept that both liberals and conservatives like America quite a lot, and we want what's best for it? You don't have to agree, but this whole stupid idea where both sides think that the other is some fifth column attempting to destroy the country is getting really old.

To be fair, neither Liberal or Conservative has any real definition in American politics anymore, if they ever did. I can't count the amount of purported Conservative and Liberals I've talked to that have views at least partially in line with the opposite camp, and when challenged say "oh that's not what true [insert political affiliation]s think". And that's a good thing IMO. Going strictly by party platforms there are MASSIVE holes of injustice and stupidity in both sides' methods and arguments. It's nice that people tend to be individuals. Unfortunately we have a system that makes it nearly impossible for individual, well-formed opinions to get any type of voice so we get stuck with the radical idiots like the guy in the OP and the various pundits.

But I agree with the rest of your post (for once). I would say that the portrayed radicalism of both sides is responsible for the whole "fifth column" mentality. Everyone only sees the radicals, who usually make no sense. Normal people with a variety of views see this irrationality and think "no one could be that stupid, they must really want to destroy America" which simply fuels more radicalism.

Hence the main reason we need electoral reform. Badly. Once the playing field is leveled so minority opinions are on the same playing field as the big boys things will get better, but it'll probably take another depression or revolutionary war or Caesar Augustus (a centrist, idealist billionaire who can privately fund his/her own campaign free from influence) for that to happen.

 

[werepossum]

The guy makes zero good points, come on man, I'm sure you're smarter than this. This doesn't exactly surprise me that people would fall for this stupidity, considering how many times you see hilariously wrong posts about 'libruls believe X'.

Liberals dislike certain things about America. Generally they dislike the 3rd world levels of income inequality, they dislike America's rampant homophobia, things like that. Inherently people who are liberal want to change things, while conservatives want them to stay the same. That's sort of the definitions of the words. To think that something needs to be improved somehow equals a hatred of your country is 3rd grade reasoning at its worst.

Funny thing is that I see huge quantities of hateful rhetoric coming from conservatives as well. The amount of sheer loathing they have for huge segments of their fellow Americans and what they stand for could lead someone to say that conservatives hate America too. (if you were following this guy's dumb reasoning.)

This was nothing but red meat to preach to the converted, and you fell for it hook, line, and sinker. Why can't we all just accept that both liberals and conservatives like America quite a lot, and we want what's best for it? You don't have to agree, but this whole stupid idea where both sides think that the other is some fifth column attempting to destroy the country is getting really old.

I agree that both sides want what is best for the country. However, conservatives like America quite a lot as it is. This is why they are called conservatives, they literally want to conserve what we have. Progressives dislike America as it is, but like America as a vision of what they could make it. This is why they are called progressives, they want to make progress in changing America into their vision for it - radically changing America through progressive changes rather than through revolution.

 

[woolfe9999]

I agree that both sides want what is best for the country. However, conservatives like America quite a lot as it is. This is why they are called conservatives, they literally want to conserve what we have. Progressives dislike America as it is, but like America as a vision of what they could make it. This is why they are called progressives, they want to make progress in changing America into their vision for it - radically changing America through progressive changes rather than through revolution.

Really? I thought conservatives wanted to roll back the last 80 years of...pretty much everything government has done, not to mention all its social, cultural and economic impact. If you buy the premise that liberalism has had a significant impact on American society - as surely every conservative must on the ground that they believe the media has a liberal bias alone - then there are huge aspects of America that conservatives want to change. The difference is that conservative change is reversionary - they want what we were, or rather, what they think we were, in the past.

 

[fskimospy]

Really? I thought conservatives wanted to roll back the last 80 years of...pretty much everything government has done, not to mention all its social, cultural and economic impact. If you buy the premise that liberalism has had a significant impact on American society - as surely every conservative must on the ground that they believe the media has a liberal bias alone - then there are huge aspects of America that conservatives want to change. The difference is that conservative change is reversionary - they want what we were, or rather, what they think we were, in the past.

Exactly. Conservatives also dislike a great deal of what America is today, the Great Society in particular. There's really nothing wrong with that, as generally most people agree that they like the fundamentals a great deal, they just differ on the implementation.

I would just ignore werepossum, he's a perfect example of the delusional hatred that I'm talking about.

 

[woolfe9999]

Exactly. Conservatives also dislike a great deal of what America is today, the Great Society in particular. There's really nothing wrong with that, as generally most people agree that they like the fundamentals a great deal, they just differ on the implementation.

I would just ignore werepossum, he's a perfect example of the delusional hatred that I'm talking about.

If my choice is responding to someone on the level of objectivity of Werepossum or someone on the level of objectivity of, say, Spidey, then I either respond to the Werepossums of the board or I respond to none of the conservative posters at all.

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

Wanting to improve ones country != Hating ones country

 

[fskimospy]

If my choice is responding to someone on the level of objectivity of Werepossum or someone on the level of objectivity of, say, Spidey, then I either respond to the Werepossums of the board or I respond to none of the conservative posters at all.

haha, fair enough.

 

[werepossum]

Really? I thought conservatives wanted to roll back the last 80 years of...pretty much everything government has done, not to mention all its social, cultural and economic impact. If you buy the premise that liberalism has had a significant impact on American society - as surely every conservative must on the ground that they believe the media has a liberal bias alone - then there are huge aspects of America that conservatives want to change. The difference is that conservative change is reversionary - they want what we were, or rather, what they think we were, in the past.

Conservatives don't really want to roll back that much. Much of what progressives do, we grudgingly accept once we get used to it. Social security, for example; conservatives today like it, but I'm sure conservatives of the FDR days hated it. Mostly we want to slow down change because of the hopefully unintended but inevitable side effects of liberal policies. For instance, the liberals' welfare programs, whilst implemented with the best of intentions, have given us the welfare state where we now have three generations who do not know work, but rather farm babies, the disintegration of families (especially black families) as the federal government takes the place of a father-provider for single mothers, and inner city war zones where hordes of fatherless young men grow up dependent on the welfare benefits of single women.

If we knew how to reverse those policies, we'd be for it. But every time we think we've reversed one of your policies, though - like reforming welfare - you guys find ways around us and continue growing the welfare state. Mostly we'd settle for stopping you guys from making things worse in the attempt to make them better.

 

[werepossum]

Exactly. Conservatives also dislike a great deal of what America is today, the Great Society in particular. There's really nothing wrong with that, as generally most people agree that they like the fundamentals a great deal, they just differ on the implementation.

I would just ignore werepossum, he's a perfect example of the delusional hatred that I'm talking about.

Can you honestly name any self-styled conservatives here who AREN'T perfect examples of the delusional hatred that you're always talking about? Delusional hatred is in the eye of the beholder.

If you cannot name any area where the other wing or party is notably better than your preferred wing or party, then you aren't thinking.

 

[fskimospy]

Can you honestly name any self-styled conservatives here who AREN'T perfect examples of the delusional hatred that you're always talking about? Delusional hatred is in the eye of the beholder.

If you cannot name any area where the other wing or party is notably better than your preferred wing or party, then you aren't thinking.

Sure I can. For example JD50 is a conservative guy, but he's not nuts like you.

There are plenty of places in which I disagree with the left. I'm generally more willing to employ military force than they are, I find their nuclear posture silly, I support means testing Social Security, I prefer a markedly more conservative approach to education using charter schools, merit pay, tenure reform, etc. (Imagine how mad that makes my mom the liberal teacher), etc, etc.

You would never know that though, because you're invested in delusional caricatures of people in some sort of bizarre war against 'progressives'. I know quite a few people who work in banking, ie: I know quite a few Republicans. We disagree on a lot of things, but they are reasonable people. The conservatives on this board are, by and large, nuts.

 

[werepossum]

Sure I can. For example JD50 is a conservative guy, but he's not nuts like you.

There are plenty of places in which I disagree with the left. I'm generally more willing to employ military force than they are, I find their nuclear posture silly, I support means testing Social Security, I prefer a markedly more conservative approach to education using charter schools, merit pay, tenure reform, etc. (Imagine how mad that makes my mom the liberal teacher), etc, etc.

You would never know that though, because you're invested in delusional caricatures of people in some sort of bizarre war against 'progressives'. I know quite a few people who work in banking, ie: I know quite a few Republicans. We disagree on a lot of things, but they are reasonable people. The conservatives on this board are, by and large, nuts.

Well, one is a start, I suppose. Kudos to JD50.

 

[polarmystery]

Wanting to improve ones country != Hating ones country

Get out of here with that sound logic!

 

[thraashman]

Are we seriously having this thread in here? This is one of those stupid topics that does nothing but cause partisan attacks and arguments. There's not even an issue to discuss in here, this is solely a right vs left attack thread. Threads that aren't supposed to be attack threads devolve into partisan arguments in P&N we don't need to start them that way. We can be better than this.

 

[Macamus Prime]

I'd like to say I hate my people's culture, but whites don't have culture. Hell, most of them lack class.

Also, in regards to lacking culture; that's why white kids like to imitate urban blacks and latinos.

 

[piasabird]

If you are passing out pictures of chairman Mau, no one is going to listen to you anyhow!

Wasnt there a song like this once?