Ohio murder suspect in country illegally; ordered do not detain by INS.

[Art&Science]

So is Donald Trump still wrong? Or can the leftists admit that he was partially correct? (My bet is no).

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/2...egally-ordered-not-to-be-detained-in-earlier/


Also, why do I only see this on Fox News and Cleveland.Com and not on MSNB, CNN, etc, etc?

 

[michal1980]

these are the people doing the hard work lazy Americans wont, we should celebrate them.

 

[highland145]

these are the people doing the hard work lazy Americans wont, we should celebrate them.

Cleveland should strive to be more Chicago like, right?

 

[DrPizza]

Just out of curiosity, anyone have any stats on the percentage of illegal immigrants who are murderers versus percentage of legal citizens who have murdered?

I mean, just one case like the OPs is simply anecdotal evidence. I.e., to understand this point, suppose there were 50 million illegals in the country and only 1 committed murder, and 300 million US citizens and 1 million of them committed murder. In a case like that, the OP's point would be idiotic. Now, I know those aren't the actual numbers, but a discussion of this/reporting on this to make a point that there are some illegals who have committed other illegal acts is pretty disingenuous without using valid statistics versus anecdotal cases to make a point.

 

[Kwatt]

Just out of curiosity, anyone have any stats on the percentage of illegal immigrants who are murderers versus percentage of legal citizens who have murdered?

I mean, just one case like the OPs is simply anecdotal evidence. I.e., to understand this point, suppose there were 50 million illegals in the country and only 1 committed murder, and 300 million US citizens and 1 million of them committed murder. In a case like that, the OP's point would be idiotic. Now, I know those aren't the actual numbers, but a discussion of this/reporting on this to make a point that there are some illegals who have committed other illegal acts is pretty disingenuous without using valid statistics versus anecdotal cases to make a point.

I saw it different I guess.

Law enforcement had someone that is a known criminal and released them to commit further crimes.

Especially, when I consider that some LEO's (the few bad apples?) seem to be OK with executing known citizen's on the roadside for traffic violations.


.

 

[michal1980]

Just out of curiosity, anyone have any stats on the percentage of illegal immigrants who are murderers versus percentage of legal citizens who have murdered?

I mean, just one case like the OPs is simply anecdotal evidence. I.e., to understand this point, suppose there were 50 million illegals in the country and only 1 committed murder, and 300 million US citizens and 1 million of them committed murder. In a case like that, the OP's point would be idiotic. Now, I know those aren't the actual numbers, but a discussion of this/reporting on this to make a point that there are some illegals who have committed other illegal acts is pretty disingenuous without using valid statistics versus anecdotal cases to make a point.

Divert.

Cops had him. Obama admin choose not to detain and deport him. People died because of that choice.


The left here keeps making the claim that these people wont violate laws because that would get them deported. Guess that theory is once again proven wrong.

 

[fskimospy]

So is Donald Trump still wrong? Or can the leftists admit that he was partially correct? (My bet is no).

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/2...egally-ordered-not-to-be-detained-in-earlier/

Also, why do I only see this on Fox News and Cleveland.Com and not on MSNB, CNN, etc, etc?

This is a straw man argument. Liberals have never said that illegal immigrants never commit crimes, they have said that a deportation and enforcement policy is counterproductive and we'd be better off with comprehensive reform that brings them into society.

But yeah, Donald Trump was totally wrong in what he said. I mean you didn't actually believe that idiot, did you? By the way, his Politifact page is a thing of beauty. I don't think I've ever seen someone with a worse record for dishonesty rated by that site:

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/

 

[Art&Science]

T
But yeah, Donald Trump was totally wrong in what he said.

He said some people coming from Mexico are rapists and murders.

Here we have someone in the country illegally from Mexico that attempted to rape someone, shot someone and shot another person to death (murder).

 

[fskimospy]

He said some people coming from Mexico are rapists and murders.

Here we have someone in the country illegally from Mexico that attempted to rape someone, shot someone and shot another person to death (murder).

No, he said this:

“They're not sending you, they're sending people that have lots of problems and they're bringing those problems. They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime. They're rapists and some, I assume, are good people, but I speak to border guards and they're telling us what we're getting."

He said the opposite: that the Mexicans are rapists and some (he assumes!) are good people. A grammatical parsing of that sentence means Mexicans are rapists, but some are presumably good people. Had he said "some Mexicans are rapists" that still would have been a stupid thing to say as it's a needlessly inflammatory truism, (some of every nationality are rapists) but it would have been true. What he said was false.

I seriously love how Republicans are flocking to support this guy though. He's been god's gift to liberalism, because he's really coming out and saying all the incredibly insane things the Republican base believes. Previous candidates were smart enough to dog whistle at those things.

 

[Murloc]

Just out of curiosity, anyone have any stats on the percentage of illegal immigrants who are murderers versus percentage of legal citizens who have murdered?

I mean, just one case like the OPs is simply anecdotal evidence. I.e., to understand this point, suppose there were 50 million illegals in the country and only 1 committed murder, and 300 million US citizens and 1 million of them committed murder. In a case like that, the OP's point would be idiotic. Now, I know those aren't the actual numbers, but a discussion of this/reporting on this to make a point that there are some illegals who have committed other illegal acts is pretty disingenuous without using valid statistics versus anecdotal cases to make a point.

I don't know about the US but in Europe it's pretty clear cut.

 

[Art&Science]

No, he said this:



He said the opposite: that the Mexicans are rapists and some (he assumes!) are good people. A grammatical parsing of that sentence means Mexicans are rapists, but some are presumably good people. Had he said "some Mexicans are rapists" that still would have been a stupid thing to say as it's a needlessly inflammatory truism, (some of every nationality are rapists) but it would have been true. What he said was false.

I seriously love how Republicans are flocking to support this guy though. He's been god's gift to liberalism, because he's really coming out and saying all the incredibly insane things the Republican base believes. Previous candidates were smart enough to dog whistle at those things.

Thanks for quoting the entire thing. I think the point still stands.

Here we have someone in the country illegally from Mexico that attempted to rape someone, shot someone and shot another person to death (murder).

I don't think it's just Republicans... I think he's just not sugar coating things, people aren't used to that. People are used to candidates saying things like "Hope and Change" instead of actually naming exactly what they are talking about. Politicians don't say exactly what they are talking about, so far Trump does - he tells you what he thinks - about everything.

 

[Angry Irishman]

Aside from the ongoing and typical left vs right BS. Why was this man not detained?

What possible rational would justify such a stupid decision? The article says he hadn't committed a crime at the point deputies had him. How about being on US soil illegally? Is that not a crime? Found alone in a car. Likely without a license? Ridiculous.

 

[fskimospy]

Thanks for quoting the entire thing. I think the point still stands.

Here we have someone in the country illegally from Mexico that attempted to rape someone, shot someone and shot another person to death (murder).

I agree that's a bad thing! I don't find anecdotal evidence to be particularly helpful in determining national policy, but it's certainly a tragedy when things like this happen.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Aside from the ongoing and typical left vs right BS. Why was this man not detained?

What possible rational would justify such a stupid decision? The article says he hadn't committed a crime at the point deputies had him. How about being on US soil illegally? Is that not a crime? Found alone in a car. Likely without a license? Ridiculous.

Being found alone in a car without identification isn't a crime. This isn't Soviet Russia; the police can't just go around asking for people's papers if they happen to have brown skin. It would be baseless speculation to guess at why INS would have said "don't detain this person," so who knows what their rationale was?

 

[senseamp]

these are the people doing the hard work lazy Americans wont, we should celebrate them.

You going Trump on us?

 

[CitizenKain]

Thanks for quoting the entire thing. I think the point still stands.

Here we have someone in the country illegally from Mexico that attempted to rape someone, shot someone and shot another person to death (murder).

I don't think it's just Republicans... I think he's just not sugar coating things, people aren't used to that. People are used to candidates saying things like "Hope and Change" instead of actually naming exactly what they are talking about. Politicians don't say exactly what they are talking about, so far Trump does - he tells you what he thinks - about everything.

No, he tells poorly educated simpletons what they want to hear so you will give him money.

 

[Newell Steamer]

So, if someone has an arrest in their history, we need to detain and turn them away?

Great!

Where are we turning Rick Perry away to??

 

[Rustler]

Aside from the ongoing and typical left vs right BS. Why was this man not detained?

What possible rational would justify such a stupid decision? The article says he hadn't committed a crime at the point deputies had him. How about being on US soil illegally? Is that not a crime? Found alone in a car. Likely without a license? Ridiculous.

ding ding...............all illegals have committed a crime by being here..............first crime of many.

 

[Rustler]

these are the people doing the hard work lazy Americans wont, we should celebrate them.

LOL you need to cut down on the pyscotrobic drugs..............

 

[DrPizza]

ding ding...............all illegals have committed a crime by being here..............first crime of many.

And, if any person in the US over the age of 21 has committed fewer than 200 crimes in their lives, it'd be a miracle. Having an alcoholic drink at the age of 19 is a crime. As is being here illegally. I would argue that both are victimless crimes. And, many would argue that having them here illegally is actually a net benefit, or at least, necessary. (Who else would pick our crops, etc.)

So, in light of that, is the percentage of illegal immigrants who commit crimes (with a victim) higher than the percentage of citizens who commit the same types of crimes? That's what our national policy should be based on, not emotional anecdotal cases.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

ding ding...............all illegals have committed a crime by being here..............first crime of many.

OK, but how do you know they're here illegally without detaining them to check their papers? And since that's a required step to determine whether they're here legally, what's the rationale used to detain them in the first place? They look Mexican? That's the sort of rationale that gets evidence dismissed from criminal trials. It's illegal to possess cocaine; that doesn't mean that police have carte blanche to stop every single person on the street and strip search them looking for cocaine. You need probable cause.

 

[smackababy]

And, if any person in the US over the age of 21 has committed fewer than 200 crimes in their lives, it'd be a miracle. Having an alcoholic drink at the age of 19 is a crime. As is being here illegally. I would argue that both are victimless crimes. And, many would argue that having them here illegally is actually a net benefit, or at least, necessary. (Who else would pick our crops, etc.)

So, in light of that, is the percentage of illegal immigrants who commit crimes (with a victim) higher than the percentage of citizens who commit the same types of crimes? That's what our national policy should be based on, not emotional anecdotal cases.

I think these statistics are hard to get, as most immigrants (both legal and illegal) commit crimes within their own communities that go unreported. This happens a lot in the Asian communities apparently. And, you have to discount people who are simply entering illegally for drug smuggling unless they plan to retain residence in the US and not simply go back across to do it again.

Something I would be interested in is if entering the country legally reduces the chances of someone committing crimes upon entering.

 

[Angry Irishman]

Being found alone in a car without identification isn't a crime. This isn't Soviet Russia; the police can't just go around asking for people's papers if they happen to have brown skin. It would be baseless speculation to guess at why INS would have said "don't detain this person," so who knows what their rationale was?

Well I think it's safe to assume that the deputies figured out he wasn't an American citizen. Why would they contact INS? Not too baseless as letting him go led to a very violent act.

 

[JSt0rm]

Everyone please vote for Donald. He is the man. Thanks.

 

[Rustler]

everyone please vote for donald. He is the man. Thanks.

but he sure does stir the pot............................